Meaning in life without meaning in the Universe

#1
I just got done listening to the most recent show with Prof. Lawrence Krauss as your guest and you asked how it is possible to have meaning in life without meaning in the Universe.

I thought his answer was pretty simple and probably the most accurate but you imply that it is not possible to have meaning in life without meaning in the Universe. Here are my explanations..

1st explanation:
We are all just small components of this Universe. We all are from the same source. Whatever meaning we create for ourselves is our contribution to the Universe. Although it is very small compared to the scale of the Universe, it still gives us some meaning.

2nd explanation:
If you are under the impression that it is impossible for us to have individual meaning without an existing meaning for the Universe as a whole, that's different. But my question to you would be why is it necessary for our Universe to have meaning in order for us to have individual meaning?
 
#2
I just got done listening to the most recent show with Prof. Lawrence Krauss as your guest and you asked how it is possible to have meaning in life without meaning in the Universe.

I thought his answer was pretty simple and probably the most accurate but you imply that it is not possible to have meaning in life without meaning in the Universe. Here are my explanations..

1st explanation:
We are all just small components of this Universe. We all are from the same source. Whatever meaning we create for ourselves is our contribution to the Universe. Although it is very small compared to the scale of the Universe, it still gives us some meaning.
this requires a universe with meaning.

2nd explanation:
But my question to you would be why is it necessary for our Universe to have meaning in order for us to have individual meaning?
logically inconsistent
 
#4
Obviously meaning exists in the universe, but what makes it qualitatively any different than sand or gravity or meaninglessness?
You believe sand and gravity is equivalent to meaning? Are you pretending to be Lewis Carroll? I don't get it. Where does this nonsense come from?

At times, I think we were better off under the old christian idiots than accepting this new atheistic idiocy.

My Best,
Bertha
 
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#5
You believe sand and gravity is equivalent to meaning? Are you pretending to be Lewis Carroll? I don't get it. Where does this nonsense come from?

At times, I think we were better off under the old christian idiots than accepting this new atheistic idiocy.

My Best,
Bertha
I'm not an atheist. So you just "know" the answer to the question?
 
#8
I know. Everyone hates a relativist who thinks ultimately nothing is knowable.
I don't hate it. I just think it is absurd to abandon our human reason and search for knowledge for this vague conception of "nothing". It is just another religious cop out - but comes from Eastern traditions. The West and Christianity abnegated reality via saying we should focus all our life on what awaits us in the afterlife. Many Eastern religions abnegated life by focusing on this weird idea that "nothingness" was the ultimate goal of spirituality.

I just disagree with either approach. I think we are human because we are meant to be human. And I believe our spirituality is not meant to abandon our humanness or rationality. Our human ego is no meant to be shunted aside. It also plays a valuable role in our being and our existence (and our spirituality).

My Best,
Bertha
 
#9
I don't hate it. I just think it is absurd to abandon our human reason and search for knowledge for this vague conception of "nothing". It is just another religious cop out - but comes from Eastern traditions. The West and Christianity abnegated reality via saying we should focus all our life on what awaits us in the afterlife. Many Eastern religions abnegated life by focusing on this weird idea that "nothingness" was the ultimate goal of spirituality.

I just disagree with either approach. I think we are human because we are meant to be human. And I believe our spirituality is not meant to abandon our humanness or rationality. Our human ego is no meant to be shunted aside. It also plays a valuable role in our being and our existence.

My Best,
Bertha
I don't abandon anything. I don't worship nothing any more than I worship everything. I relish existence. I even relish my ego. I simply don't know if any of it is real or just illusion. Nor do I care. It simply doesn't matter.
 
#11
If you "don't care" and "It simply doesn't matter" then you're missing the whole point of it. IMO

My Best,
Bertha
I don't care if it is all an illusion or part of some larger schema which renders our experience here as meaningless--as for example waking from a dream. Day to day I certainly care if I am kind to my wife and daughters. Or if someone isn't. I am human and like you say, those are all the delicious parts of being human, existing at this apparent moment. Relative meaning is great. Absolute meaning is beyond our means to know.
 
#12
I don't care if it is all an illusion or part of some larger schema which renders our experience here as meaningless--as for example waking from a dream. Day to day I certainly care if I am kind to my wife and daughters. Or if someone isn't. I am human and like you say, those are all the delicious parts of being human, existing at this apparent moment. Relative meaning is great. Absolute meaning is beyond our means to know.
I can agree with you here to some extent. However, that does not mean we stop attempting to understand and seek further knowledge of our human experience.

Or making nonsense statements like equating sand and gravity with "meaning" - just because absolute meaning is beyond our means to know. I think that's a cop out. Obviously we're attempting to understand meaning from our human perspective and this has always been done by our conscious and unconscious ability to spontaneously create symbols.

My Best,
Bertha
 
#13
I can agree with you here to some extent. However, that does not mean we stop attempting to understand and seek further knowledge of our human experience.

Or making nonsense statements like equating sand and gravity with "meaning" - just because absolute meaning is beyond our means to know. I think that's a cop out. Obviously we're attempting to understand meaning from our human perspective and this has always been done by our conscious and unconscious ability to spontaneously create symbols.

My Best,
Bertha
I suppose that depends on one's ultimate goal. I've always desired to "experience" the absolute nature of reality free of any "conception" of the same. For me personally, I've come to understand that the absolute lies beyond symbol, beyond language and conception. For others it may be quite different. I try my best not to dictate my views or path as appropriate for anyone else on this forum or elsewhere. But I think my viewpoint is as valid as any other and therefore deserves airtime. Some may find it interesting.
 
#14
I suppose that depends on one's ultimate goal. I've always desired to "experience" the absolute nature of reality free of any "conception" of the same. For me personally, I've come to understand that the absolute lies beyond symbol, beyond language and conception. For others it may be quite different. I try my best not to dictate my views or path as appropriate for anyone else on this forum or elsewhere. But I think my viewpoint is as valid as any other and therefore deserves airtime. Some may find it interesting.
I am not trying to censor you here like the Skeptics do on RationalWiki or Wikipedia. I am simply disagreeing with you, as you are me.

You're free to pursue your own approach to life. I just don't agree with the idea that we should equate sand and gravity with meaning because absolute meaning is beyond our comprehension. I believe in the validity of human experience and think it too is spiritual even though it is not "absolute".

My Best,
Bertha
 
#15
I am not trying to censor you here like the Skeptics do on RationalWiki or Wikipedia. I am simply disagreeing with you, as you are me.

You're free to pursue your own approach to life. I just don't agree with the idea that we should equate sand and gravity with meaning because absolute meaning is beyond our comprehension. I believe in the validity of human experience and think it too is spiritual even though it is not "absolute".

My Best,
Bertha
If there is one thing I have found it is that very few people are actually too keenly interested in what is absolute. I completely understand that feeling.
 
#16
logically inconsistent
If what you seek is truth and/or actuality - logic is irrelevant! OTOH if what you seek is a way to make sense of things or you want to stay within the boundaries of a rational-materialist perspective then yes stay logical.
 
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#17
If there is one thing I have found it is that very few people are actually too keenly interested in what is absolute. I completely understand that feeling.
I'm interested in expanding my awareness and knowledge. And I consider that a spiritual endeavor and just as valid. I don't equate gravity and sand with meaning - just because absolute knowledge exists somewhere.

My Best,
Bertha
 
#18
If you are under the impression that it is impossible for us to have individual meaning without an existing meaning for the Universe as a whole, that's different. But my question to you would be why is it necessary for our Universe to have meaning in order for us to have individual meaning?
Impossible? No. Necessary? No. It's just the way it is - all Universes and all variations of any universe have "meaning." And every individual, plant, rock, microbe, etc has meaning. Consciousness has purpose so all it's expressions have meaning. 'Course, then we get into "what do you mean by meaning? :)
 
#19
I'm interested in expanding my awareness and knowledge. And I consider that a spiritual endeavor and just as valid. I don't equate gravity and sand with meaning - just because absolute knowledge exists somewhere.
Ah but gravity, sand, etc have as much meaning as any individual. If you can get to that, then you can start to move into what is the meaning that they have.
 
#20
Ah but gravity, sand, etc have as much meaning as any individual. If you can get to that, then you can start to move into what is the meaning that they have.
I place them in a different category. Placing everything in one box of "nothingness" or "absoluteness" is a tautology that disregards the ego and our human rationality. And I think the ego is a spiritual product and has reason to exist, as much as our individuality and our ability to discriminate and reason.

My Best,
Betha
 
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