Meryl and Beau From Campfire Sht Show |375|

Discussion in 'Skeptiko Shows' started by Alex, Mar 13, 2018.

  1. Michael Patterson

    Michael Patterson New

    Joined:
    May 1, 2015
    Messages:
    258
    Home Page:
    Normal human consciousness dances between the physical and the metaphysical routinely - to the extent that we seem to inhabit the intersection between the two. The materialistic 'biological robot' mentality is a dogmatic denial of what should be self-evident. The denial is based upon awful logic - so bad in fact it is flagrantly illogical. It is not reason based and it is not information based. It is an existential dread dressed up to look like reason - and it looks like that only to people who share the dread. It looks like a ghoul to others.

    However materialism has done such a fine marketing job in convincing our communities that it is responsible for all the wonderful material benefits we enjoy. While that may be true in the exploitation of scientific knowledge and subsequent commercialisation, it is not true for the actual science. People who do the science work are not materialists as a class - and the very best science seems to have been done by people who are at the very least open to the spiritual and the metaphysical.

    But the average citizen doesn't know this. They validate the materialist propaganda because it seems reasonable. They buy the imputed authority and lose faith in their own experiences. They are persuaded that they must have misperceived, misinterpreted or hallucinated. And yet they harbour doubts. For many the alternative to materialism is only religion, and that has been subjected to seemingly just and rational objections.

    For me this is the worst crime of materialism - to cause mistrust of one's own capacity to know what is true and real and good and seek, instead the assurance of authority. It is a criminal enterprise adapted from dogmatic religion. This is, for me, Conspiracy#1.

    I think the materialist cause is dead in the water and starting to stink. But what is left is its impact in conditioning our collective and shared mentality and language. I am a great fan of Dynamo, Magician Impossible (check him out on YouTube). A witness to one of his impressive performances was a woman who did not appear to be especially well educated. Her response to what she had witnessed was to say that it "wasn't scientific". Others have observed that what they see isn't "proper" or "right". Who are these people to know what is 'scientific', 'proper' or 'right'?

    We understand their words, because this is the language of our age - conditioned by materialism and scientific rationalism. But did the woman who said what she saw was "not scientific" literally mean that? I don't think she did. She meant the performance violated her notion of normal and expected in an emphatic manner. She used the language of the dominant mentality, the same way, centuries ago, the dominant mentality was religious and the language reflected that.

    My point is that the widespread use of materialistic language is not evidence of materialistic thought. Even today an atheist will exclaim "For God's sake!" or "Christ!" and we will not take this as evidence of a conversion to the faith, will we?

    Are we still fighting the battle or are we on the battlefield in the aftermath of a victory? Its a question we need to ask and answer. The answer shapes our thought and language.
     
    Hurmanetar likes this.
  2. Hurmanetar

    Hurmanetar New

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2015
    Messages:
    2,377
    Home Page:
    ...so you're saying the soul DOES have mass? And we can sling it off the body like a sediment?

    (j/k)
     
    LetsEat likes this.
  3. Hurmanetar

    Hurmanetar New

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2015
    Messages:
    2,377
    Home Page:
    I agree we exist at the intersection. There are many metaphors for this intersection. The most all-encompassing one I've found is that of pattern. I vote for patternism to replace materialism. "Material" or "matter" implies something solid, static, immovable, and heavy. Materialism then implies that everything can be reduced to something solid and static... IOW, dead as a rock. In reality, nothing is static... stasis or metaphorically "death" is a simplified mental model we impose upon reality. We digitize it so we can compute it. The notion of "pattern" on the other hand recognizes that every comprehensible thing is composed of regularities and these are not necessarily solid, static, immovable, or heavy... IOW, not dead. There are no patterns without subjectively defined boundaries around arbitrarily classified objects so pattern is THE intersection of subject and object.

    Its proponents would of course argue with you about the existential dread part and claim they are happy as a lark and create their own meaning and the fact that they aren't bound to something greater spanning many lifetimes frees them up to savor and enjoy this lifetime and this moment. They would argue that machines can become spiritual and emotional and that is what we are and that is what we will create and merge with.

    This has been the case for a long time, but I think more and more people - thanks to things like Skeptiko - are recognizing there is a middle way.

    I think every hierarchical organization emphasizes trust in authority over trust in self.

    Interesting anecdote and observation. :)

    I wouldn't fly the "Mission accomplished" banner just yet, but I think we're definitely making progress towards a new more positive and more life affirming consensus about the nature of reality.
     
  4. Alex

    Alex New

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2013
    Messages:
    2,616
    I think the G-Loc data is important and should be embraced by the NDE community rather pushed away. I see it falling in line with David Nutt's psilocybin research:
    Psilocybin for treatment-resistant depression: fMRI-measured ... - Nature
    and other research that demolishes the mind=brain nonsense.
     
    Hurmanetar likes this.
  5. LetsEat

    LetsEat Member

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2016
    Messages:
    363
    Jim_Smith likes this.
  6. Alex

    Alex New

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2013
    Messages:
    2,616
    it fits the same pattern where a severely compromised brain correlates with extended conscious experiences. the fact that it happens in so many dif ways (e.g. NDE, psychedelics, terminal lucidity, etc.) is compelling.
     
    LetsEat likes this.
  7. malf

    malf Member

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2013
    Messages:
    4,049
    ... and at some point this (immaterial?) extended consciousness realm is interacting with the material realm (within the brain)? Is that how you see it?
     
  8. Alex

    Alex New

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2013
    Messages:
    2,616
    basically, but yr thinking about it backwards. Radin explains it beautifully here (sorry but I don't have the exact timestamp):
    418. Dean Radin | Buddha at the Gas Pump
     
  9. What is the evidence that G-LOC is correlating with the extended consciousness realm? People exeriencing G-LOC don't see dead people or have veridical experiences. They have "tunnel vision" they don't actually pass through a tunnel like NDErs. They don't have spritual transformations. They have "dreamlets" not prolonged experiences of the afterlife that follow a logical sequence. etc etc.
     
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2018
  10. AryaS

    AryaS Member

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2017
    Messages:
    233
    I was underwhelmed by this podcast -- it's the first Skeptiko show I haven't really liked ever. The Camp Fire Shit Show hosts just seem to be on the least interesting opposing sides of the spectrum. Meryl seems to be a person who has never met a conspiracy she didn't like (i.e., no discernment), while Beau seems stuck in his boring mainstream reality bubble (i.e., no independent thought or curiosity). The only interesting part for me was Meryl's description of her kundalini awakening -- but disappointingly, this seems to have led her to the conclusion that yoga leads people to opening portals to dark entities...

    If we are going to explore "conspiracies" here as part of the likely true nature of reality, I think it is essential to bring on articulate, intelligent guests who can really explain why they believe a particular "conspiracy" is true.
     
  11. KindaGamey

    KindaGamey Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2016
    Messages:
    127
    Home Page:
    I think Alex just wanted to have some fun and who can blame him. It was a nice respite and he introduced me to a funny duo no matter what their predilections are.
     
  12. Vortex

    Vortex Member

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2013
    Messages:
    637
    Hurm (and anyone else here), what do you think about the positions expressed in this article?
     
    KindaGamey and Hurmanetar like this.
  13. Hurmanetar

    Hurmanetar New

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2015
    Messages:
    2,377
    Home Page:
    I agree with pretty much all of that. Except I think they’ve been at it for much longer than a hundred years.
     

Share This Page