Michael Tsarion on Race, Jordan Peterson, and Why Conspiracy Work is Spiritual Work |372|

Discussion in 'Skeptiko Shows' started by Alex, Feb 6, 2018.

  1. Laird

    Laird Member

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    Sure, you can and should answer as you see fit, but on the other hand, a discussion is not just the participants saying whatever they feel like. If we're not responding meaningfully to one another, then it's not a discussion, it's two people talking at each other.

    Case in point:

    At the heart of what? It has nothing to do with the claim which I'd questioned and to which you offered it as part of a response: that Donald Trump intends to close overseas military bases.

    Maybe you mean it's at the heart of the conflict in Syria? I'm no expert, and wasn't even alive at the time of the Crisis, but that seems like a pretty overblown claim. In any case, the idea that Donald Trump has acted effectively to defuse the risk of nuclear war is bizarre. I mean, tweets like "Get ready Russia, because they will be coming, nicer and new and ‘smart.’" aren't putting out fires - they're fanning the flames[*] - and, again, assuming the chemical attacks were faked, then the less risky choice would have been to have said so, not to have mounted an attack in a situation you believe to be as unstable as that of the Cuban Missile Crisis. You can't have it both ways: that this situation is as precarious as that of the Cuban Missile Crisis, yet at the same time that it is reasonable to mount an attack (however "symbolic") in the situation.

    [*] Not to mention being disappointing and pathetic coming from a world leader. It's hard to imagine how anybody could respect this type of dick-waving.
     
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  2. David Bailey

    David Bailey Administrator

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    I don't know how much of the concept of 'Deep State' you take on board. Jim Smith can give you loads of links on the subject. The idea is that recent presidents have had a group somewhere in the US administration pushing for confrontation with Russia and constant US involvement in the Middle East. I don't know if they would like to actually push the button, or just create a situation of continual attrition, whether these people exist or not, they certainly seem to get their way! According to that point of view, the Syrian civil war was hugely inflamed by the US training and arming extremists opposed to Assad. I think I am right that Donald Trump stopped, or is in the process of stopping support for these fighters

    The Russians are quite clear that the people they are fighting in the various opposition strongholds in Syria, are barely distinguishable from ISIS, and that the situation in those places is essentially like that in Mosul, where if you remember, the civilian population was held hostage by a gang of ISIS extremists, causing huge loss of life by the time the US cleared them out.

    I believe this, because the whole problem with the US support for fighters in Syria (instigated by Hillary Clinton when she was secretary of state) was that they were arming utterly religiously extreme terrorists - much as they did back in the days when extremists pushed out the Soviets in Afghanistan.

    You need to realise just how many countries have been messed up by US aggression - Iraq, Syria, Vietnam, Cambodia, Libya......... Ask yourself what all that destruction was for!

    Thus you have extremists motivated by hate like the people who will blow themselves up in the West to kill as many people as possible. I don't know whether one should blame those men, or just the people who train and motivate them to do these things, but they want to win at all costs. When Obama announced that the use of chemical weapons would be a red line in Syria, the extremists in Syria saw that creating a fake attack in the areas they control, could bring the US back into major action in Syria against Assad.

    That, I think, is why there have been a string of militarily trivial chemical attacks, supposedly caused by Assad to try to pull the US into the war there.

    I am sure the president understands all that, but he has to govern in a situation where he is offered no respect, the news organisations don't want to chase the facts about Syria - just to bash Trump - and some of the people in his own party support the crazy deep state concept.

    "Get ready Russia, because they will be coming, nicer and new and ‘smart.’
    " wasn't meant for Russian consumption - because negotiations were obviously going on to make sure those attacks killed nobody - but to try to wake up everyone else to the danger of a war with Russia - probably ending up with nuclear weapons.

    The Cuban Missile Crisis was a point when the world was extremely close to nuclear war - we all escaped by a whisker, but it was a time when everyone waited anxiously for each news bulletin, and prayed, and didn't talk too much about what seemed to be about to happen.

    I think Donald Trump wants a peaceful resolution of the various stand-offs - think of North Korea, and unless I come to the conclusion that that is wrong, he is the guy I want in the White House.

    David
     
  3. Laird

    Laird Member

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    OK, well, perhaps you'd like to research that and get back to us. Let us know if and to what extent you were right, with supporting evidence.

    I would if I hadn't already realised it. I'm simply wondering what Donald Trump is doing to change this. I posed the question earlier, for example, as to how many overseas bases he's closed so far, and what his further schedule for closures is, but all I got in response was crickets...

    And why do they hate? Could it possibly be related to the fact that (your words, with which I agree) their "countries have been messed up by US aggression"?

    When he behaves respectfully, maybe he will command respect in turn. Compulsively and flagrantly lying to the citizens of his country and to the world at large is not respectful behaviour. It insults us all.

    Oh boy. The contortions keep coming...

    What, over all other possible candidates?
     
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