Michael Tsarion on Race, Jordan Peterson, and Why Conspiracy Work is Spiritual Work |372|

An anecdote is insufficient to challenge general trends found in statistics, the claim wasnt that these expressions were universal. Merely that they exist and that they exist in a substantial way.
The tiresome argument of "that is just an anecdote" continues. There is nothing wrong with anecdotes as long as they can be proved and are not just rumours. In science they call anecdotes "case studies." Finding exceptions to general statistical trends are also important because if we ignore outliers as mere "noise" we run the risk of missing important information.
 
We are talking about groups, not individuals.
Yes but to apply Eysenck's work you would be talking about a sequence of decisions about individuals.

Individual hiring decisions.

Individual decisions about entry to university.

Etc.

None of those decisions are going to be informed by looking at a weak correlation involving race, when each individual can be assessed by his/her individual exam results and other attainments.

David
 
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None of those decisions are going to be informed by looking at a weak correlation involving race
1. The correlations are not weak.

2. We are talking about public policy, not individual decisions.

Race-blind public polices would be a vast improvement over current public policies that racially discriminate against White People.
 
No offense to my American and other New World friends like Alex, but I have to agree with Michael that you're leaving behind something vitally important. All of us here at home have to contend with our ancestral baggage, consciously or unconsciously, while you have run away from that pain and anguish. Of course it's easy for you to feel just fine being a Californian, New Yorker, or South African. That's what trauma does, allows us to forget. It's the same mechanism as birth or traumatic childhood abuse. We wipe ourselves clean and try to carry on as best we can. This might be the easy way to live your life, but there are many unresolved things lying underneath the surface waiting for you to address them. They're going to haunt you, in this life and for many lives to come.
Thing is, I don't really feel connected to South Africa as a whole, but to a rather small region of it. When I travel to other parts of the country, I feel a tiny degree of being culturally and environmentally out of step. So I assume my sense of a home place is based on where my upbringing took place. I'm also sure these kinds of cultural and topological eccentricities must have a developmental role on who we are as people, at least in nuance.

That being said, a family member of mine visited Ireland some years ago and was plagued by militaristic and violent dreams.... at the time I wondered if this could be related to a hardcore unionist ancestor we have (about four generations back - a marcher and all that crap). So I don't rule out ancestral memory as a phenomena, but I also think it could be physiological in some way (genetic/epigenetic/who knows) and I'm not sure if it has any transmigrational dimension.

Anyway, immigration IS a part of my ancestral experience.

As for tribal spirituality, I wouldn't denigrate it at all, there's true timeless wisdom and practice there.... but since the universe/life/sentience/society seems to have an evolutionary bent... I reckon contemporary spiritual perception should too (or at least adapt to its time). Hey, maybe even reincarnation as a phenomena is evolving in some way. At the moment I'm trying to building-block my way into a kind of 21st century animism.

The whole conversation brings to my mind James Baldwin, the American author. He travelled to Africa expecting the experience to be a home coming.... in reality, it made him realise that he's far more American than he is African.

As an aside, some Afrikaner cultural organisations have tried in the past to have themselves registered with the UN as an indigenous African tribe.

But, as you say, who knows?

All the best.

Edit: Just wondering.... is the cultural/environmental setting that lead to the 'pagan' way of relating to life even in existence anymore? I'm not well informed on the subject, so I ask this humbly: is ancient paganism still appropriate to 21st century Europe? Has it evolved over the last few thousand years (apart from Christianised Folk magic and Saint worship)?

Please understand, I'm genuinely curious..... not trying to jump on anyone's beliefs.
 
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1. The correlations are not weak.
I think Eysinck claimed 5%, now go and look at the bell curve for IQ that I posted above.

However, there is a second point here, If A is correlated with B, and all you have is B, it may make some sense to use it as a way to estimate A. However if you already have a measurement of A, why use B to try to estimate it!
2. We are talking about public policy, not individual decisions.

Race-blind public polices would be a vast improvement over current public policies that racially discriminate against White People.
I certainly agree with that.

David
 
Cool episode Alex! I applaud you for going where so few dare tread these days, in true Skeptiko fashion.

But I think you're wrong about feeling a connection to the land and it's people. Imagine you were forced to leave your home, and everything, everyone you know for a new place. You'd feel it.

I moved halfway across the continent from where I had spent my entire life. I thought it would be no big deal, since I didn't really feel like I had any connection to where I grew up. In fact there were things I actually hated about it!

But the separation was a killer! I missed my "home". I felt it in my bones, it was more than emotional, it felt like it was physically painful. It has diminished over time. I still miss it but I'm learning to love where I am. But I finally understood what was meant by a connection to the land.

I think it's different for Americans because we do feel a connection to the country we were born and raised in, but have also been brow beaten with the idea that it was "stolen". I think because many of our ancestors immigrated here, even if hundreds of years ago, the ancestry goes back millennia, so maybe there's connection to European land that we just aren't aware of (or whatever land your ancestors originated from). Like a connection passed down generation to generation, but diminishing over time, though never really lost. Kind of like a morphic resonance, if you will.:)

But that connection is very real. I imagine it's strength also goes in accordance with how long your specific ancestry has occupied those lands.

I also think one can have a sense of deep connection to a land one has never been to before. It happened for me. During one of my spring breaks in college, I visited the Virgin Islands for the first time. The moment I stepped off the plane I felt this very deep connection to the place -- like I had been there before. I had been to other tropical places, so it wasn't just the stunning beauty of it. It was a sensing that I "knew" this place. I ended up moving there for several years after graduation, and every time I left and came back -- the same feeling of connection would flood through me each time I got off that plane.

I haven't been back in over 20 years now. I wonder if I would still get that hit....

Really enjoyed this episode. Thanks, Alex!
 
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1. The correlations are not weak.

2. We are talking about public policy, not individual decisions.

Race-blind public polices would be a vast improvement over current public policies that racially discriminate against White People.
Not more of this white “victim-hood.” America seems to be a one giant band-wagon of claiming discrimination and victimisation in all aspects of its society.
 
And I assume your story is this important clue... an important clue of what?
That the so-called innate saliency of race or racial differences may not necessarily be so obvious to children. The division by race is one which we facilitate by socially reinforcing it with racial stereotypes and pseudoscientific talk about genetic differences between race.
 
The tiresome argument of "that is just an anecdote" continues. There is nothing wrong with anecdotes as long as they can be proved and are not just rumours. In science they call anecdotes "case studies." Finding exceptions to general statistical trends are also important because if we ignore outliers as mere "noise" we run the risk of missing important information.
Amen
 
Not more of this white “victim-hood.” America seems to be a one giant band-wagon of claiming discrimination and victimisation in all aspects of its society.
If you think hearing about it is bad, try living in it.

I grew weary of hearing how White People are responsible for every ill in the world 20 years ago.

I've paid enough. Done. Over. I'm not putting up with it anymore.
 
Yes. Do you have some kind of problem with White People?
I don't think I'm in the minority here when I question what the hell you are talking about, especially with no "homework" attached,
especially when your personal bias couldn't be clearer from the comments you've made.

I think no matter what color your skin is you've personally experienced some form racism. That shouldn't be controversial. But to say the "white race" is being persecuted is beyond the pale to many and I might ask if there's anything in your opinion that is based in scientific study.
 
I don't think I'm in the minority here when I question what the hell you are talking about, especially with no "homework" attached,
especially when your personal bias couldn't be clearer from the comments you've made.

I think no matter what color your skin is you've personally experienced some form racism. That shouldn't be controversial. But to say the "white race" is being persecuted is beyond the pale to many and I might ask if there's anything in your opinion that is based in scientific study.
All of a sudden there is more minority voices speaking up. More black themed superheroes and now whites are supressed....please
 
All of a sudden there is more minority voices speaking up. More black themed superheroes and now whites are supressed....please
There's a grain of truth in every opinion. It's good to be curious, you wind up hearing a lot of things you wouldn't otherwise, even if it doesn't change your opinion etc.
The thing about racism that's confusing is that there are so many racist people who don't have any interest in seeing/inflicting suffering. Isn't it a by-product of a society based in a punitive order that whichever kind of easily classifiable group that's easiest to pick on will inevitably become the scapegoat for issues far beyond their control? Issues at the root of our society.
The real issues are the outdated feudal Justice and Penal systems. We all know it can't be perfect but...
We also know there is a modern day slavery ring being run out of for-profit prisons so maybe handling insanely unjust things like this might lead to a warmer civil society
 
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