My theory of UFOs (honest opinions/rebuttals wanted)

Discussion in 'Consciousness & Science' started by Wormwood, Feb 27, 2018.

  1. Wormwood

    Wormwood Member

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    I'm really just trying to figure all of this stuff out so if you feel you can blow my idea out of the water then please do. I don't have a personal attachment to this belief and am interested in hearing and considering yours. I'm far from an expert in this field, I'm just a curious guy who knows little. So please give me your thoughts. Also-I realize that much or all of my theory is not new or groundbreaking. Although some aspects of it I've never encountered before. Also, I have no idea if I'm actually right and to what degree I am right if I am even right at all.

    I start with the lack of explanatory power of Darwinian evolution. The staggering lack of transitional fossils and the Cambrian explosion etc, to me demonstrate a lot of deficiencies and lack of full explanatory power of the theory. Sure natural evolution probably does happen on some level, but it seems to me that some sort of intelligence facilitated the development of animals and us. Check the ID movement for thoughts on this. The best in the business that I know is Dr. Stephen Meyer.

    The difference between Meyer and I as that I suspect that this "external creating agent" were probably Extra-Terrestrial beings (at least to the degree that they facilitated biological development of certain creatures), whereas he is a professed Christian. Here are my reasons for believing this.

    1) We exist, and Neo-Darwinian evolution does not give us a solid foundation for understanding why our bodies exist

    2) So many abduction cases report that they have sperm and/or eggs taken from them during their abductions. Just start listening to accounts and you will see what I mean. Other exams are also performed because, of course, ET wants to know how well it's genetically engineered organism is thriving.

    3) Mary Rodwell, whom Alex interviewed states that she has looked into the genetic aspect of it and feels that the evidence leads to the belief that we are hybrids of some sort that had to be artificially manipulated. (I know nothing about this personally, just reporting what she said and that it seems to fit my idea).


    What is their motive? Before I talk about motive, let me explain what I think about them. I had a conversation with a friend who writes frequently online about these things, and we both agreed that this increased ability to converse and compile information about spiritual matters on the internet (NDE's, OBE's STE and even abductions) along with quantum physics will eventually begin to force a merger of science and spirituality. There are lots of new forums like this and Facebook groups which are now existing and people like us are really learning about this stuff at a rate far unparalleled in history. When mainstream academia finally figures out and realizes that we are immersed in a spiritual existence, it is me and my friends hope that this will lead to something like a Utopia of spiritually enlightened people. This is a long time away and we wont see it. But I feel that other civilizations have already reached this point. They've realized that spirituality is key. They are advanced scientifically and spiritually. When a civilization becomes spiritually enlightened and technologically advanced, they may be able to harness spiritual powers. A brief list of a couple of these reported during abductions

    1) Mary Rodwell reported that in her huge survey, most people characterized their abduction experience as positive, with only a minority reporting that their experience was traumatic and negative.
    2) Most people state that these ET communicate using Telepathy. This is the standard norm of communication in the spirit world according to most NDErs.
    3) People have reported experiencing feelings of intense love, similarly reported during NDE's

    2 and 3 above, are either indicative of spirits in pure form, or highly spiritually advanced physical beings.

    ET's were created the same way we were, or perhaps more directly by God/Creator/Source. I like Tom Campbells ideas concerning the simulation hypothesis. This simulation hypothesis is supported by quantum physics and it makes metaphysical sense. We are essentially conscious beings who are currently residing in these bodies (avatars). The Pre-birth memory data along with between life memory data strongly suggests that we simply choose bodies as avatars in order to come into this simulation to grow spiritually as we learn lessons. ET, in the creative spirit of their (our?) creator or other ET above them, tinkered with life here on Earth and manipulated biological organisms which reached the point that souls could use them properly as avatars for spiritual beings. And perhaps, some of them incarnate here on Earth as a human after they die, as many past life regression patients remember lives on other planets as other beings.

    As NDE'rs will tell you, a main lesson which they learned during their experience was one of interconnectedness. ET is obviously not here to kill us or take us over. That could've been easily achieved already. But they are spiritually inclined enough to know that we are all interconnected. All consciousness shares a source and has this connection. Therefore, they are interested in us because they are wise enough to know that what happens to us might affect them spiritually as we are all connected, not to mention the fact that they HELPED to bring our bodies into existence. This is why the spend lots of time around nuclear missile facilities and military bases. They are interested in our ability to destroy ourselves. They ARE NOT scared of our weapons. That I can guarantee.

    When people are abducted, these aliens do not seem like sadists and they return people to their lives generally unharmed. They seem very friendly at times and sometimes just business-like. But it seems clear that they are "not allowed" to really hurt us, generally. That's because our bodies (I say our bodies, because ET did not create US/our souls), were partially formed by them, and they have a vested interest because of the aforementioned interconnectedness, therefore they are probably under orders and are generally "good" themselves. But not all of them. Some are certainly more nefarious than others I am sure.

    When people are abducted, it seems there is a clear business-like agenda. They perform medical tests ,largely, and collect reproductive tissue/samples frequently. Why would they be doing this? Well, if my theory is true, they would have very good reasons for doing this.

    I do not suggest that ET created Earth and the Universe. Only that they are genetic engineers.
     
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  2. Charlie Primero

    Charlie Primero Member

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    I hate to keep being a dick about this Wormwood, but you are cherry-picking data to fit what you want E.T.'s to be.

    The Love-n-Light / Peaceful Space Brothers crowd impose a HUGE bias on what data gets promoted as "the norm" these days.

    An equally convincing case can be made that Aliens eat people, stink like rotting flesh, and are currently extorting governments to provide them resources extracted from the populace.

    You also can't ignore the thesis that E.T.'s don't exist, and are a con job by a Breakaway Civilization exploiting advanced technology, genetics, and natural spooky stuff like telepathy, thought projection, and remote viewing.
     
  3. Psiclops

    Psiclops Member

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    I don't feel intellectually capable of exploring your alien engineering hypothesis although I have no particular aversion to it.
    It might answer some problems about our origins but in these deep cosmic matters I always get the feeling that we only have a few parts of an extremely complex puzzle - and just a part of the answer lies in some points made at the end of this Meyer lecture that science is insisting on a materialistic solution when all the stuff we study here about NDEs and psychical research etc suggests something vast beyond materialism which must have a vital part to play.
    I squirm with great discomfort when I hear great minds like Meyer's make a brilliant case for ID and then over-simplify the issue by saying "God did it".
    And these theists never do spell out how big G exactly waved some magic wand to create the variety of forms in the Cambrian Explosion.
    If there is a God solution to all this then it's some Pantheistic concept of form and intelligence inherent in life forms which is in itself exploratory and inventive - and yes maybe with a little help from other 'alien' life forms tweaking the human models slightly.
    Thanks Wormwood for posting this Meyer lecture - I've watched a lot of them and thought this one was particularly well done except for the dreadful Christian setting and prayers 'to the Lord' at the start and Meyer at the end pandering to some seven day creation loony by saying his Discovery Institute expresses no view on the age of the earth.
    I know I'm not the only one here who thinks Meyer shoots himself in the foot and badly damages his credibility by buying into highly questionable and severely limiting Christian theology.
     
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  4. Wormwood, I agree with much of what you are saying...

    I don't think there is one explanation for all the ET data. I think there are different groups of ETs here for different purposes. Some are here to help us. Some are here for their own purposes. And some abductions do seem to be humans operating some kind of secret project.

    I am a strong believer in intelligent design.

    I do think some of the ETs are the intelligent designers of life on earth. These and some other ETs work with advanced spiritual beings. Some ETs remenber their spiritual nature, they can go into and out of physical bodies at will. I think it is likely that in many cases when the "creators" want to get involved directly in the physical realm they can do it more efficiently in physical form or by working with physical beings. (But ultimately, the physical realm is really only thought (a simulation running in the mind of God) and at the highest levels the physical can be changed by thought alone.)

    Some of the unpleasant experiences people are subjected to by the ETs were agreed to before the people incarnated.

    I developed these opinioins from reading various sources it is not my own invention. My interests in spirituality actually has its origins in the UFO ET literature. In that literature I found many clues that there is a project going on involving ETs and the souls of the dead and that led me to read about the evidence for the afterlife. I developed the above opinions from reading a large number of books in both areas and also from a few bits here and there I picked up from taking classes in mediumship where aliens would sometimes communicate in the same way spirits did.

    In order to understand what is happening at the physical level you have to understand what is happening at the spiritual level.
     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2018
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  5. Obiwan

    Obiwan Member

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    That’s interesting. What do you think lies at the beginning of ID? I mean how did the original designers come to be? (Btw “I have no idea” is perfecty valid imho).
     
  6. What lies at the beginning of ID is consciousness, the source of intelligence.

    Conscious is not physical. All the evidence for the afterlife (more here) and ESP argues this point.

    What is the beginning of something that is non physical? That is not a coherent question. Time is a physical property. How can something that is outside of time have a beginning?

    But what I think about the intelligence behind ID bears no relationship to the rationale for believing in ID. My belief in ID is based on empirical evidence which is better explained by intelligence as a cause than by "natural" explanations for the origin of the physical universe, origin of life, and macro-evolution. It is not a God of the gaps argument, it is a positive argument based on empirical evidence. (see the link I gave). You can identify an unseen mass by its gravitational effects. You can identify an unseen intelligence by its effects too.
     
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2018
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  7. Obiwan

    Obiwan Member

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    Thanks Jim.
     
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  8. Wormwood

    Wormwood Member

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    I totally agree. I think its likely that the ET phenomenon is not ONE thing, but likely a combination of many complicated things.
     
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2018
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  9. Wormwood

    Wormwood Member

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    I don't want them to be anything. I don't care what they are. I dont even care if Im wrong. I'm going off what, to me, seem to be the best attested cases. I don't write off cases where I cant see the people tell their story, that would be foolish, but my opinions are strongly based on the cases where I can see the people tell their story on video. I feel its fairly easy to tell who is genuine or not when they tell their story. Those are the cases I like. That's the opposite of cherry picking. But again, I haven't listened to a ton of stories, so of course I can be wrong. But when Benny Hill and Travis Walton (to me the two best attested cases of UFO aduction involving several people of seeming genuine character) say they were abducted and taken onto a ship, I take notice. I don't see how anybody could watch all those interviews and attempt to understand what took place and discern that anything other than an abduction occurred in which these people where taken on a ship and had medical experiments performed on them. To me, (just as with the NDE phenomenon) I feel that if you aren't listening to or watching people tell their story in person (on video or electronic audio) then youre really not doing research. And I don't write off the cases where people have traumatic/negative experiences. Those are just as important to note. And may actually be more the norm than positive experiences. Don't get too caught up in a "benevolency rating" of ET. That's not a real big part of my theory. I think its likely that their motives are generally good, for them and perhaps for us. Some people have good experiences, some don't. But if its work that needs to be done (ie-ET really NEEDS to evaluate us medically and reproductively, then they NEED to abduct people, and that experience will invariably be reported as negative by many people, even if the intentions are not nepharious). What we don't here about, is Aliens abducting people and putting them on a torture rack and torturing people as all the Aliens stand side by side and high five each other and laugh. It appears that they are performing tests in a business like manner, which need to be done, and then they return these people to their life.

    Can a convincing case be made that aliens eat people? I'd be interested to hear it.
     
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2018
  10. Wormwood

    Wormwood Member

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    To his credit, he does totally leave his personal Theology out of his talks. So it really doesn't affect his ID theory. And it does seem that, gladly, the people who debate him do not attack his theology in an ad hominem fashion. Meyer realizes that Christianity is not needed to perpetuate the ID theory.
     
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  11. Charlie Primero

    Charlie Primero Member

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    A race is so advanced they have command of telepathy, creative genetics, can travel at super-light speeds, or perhaps even jump across spooky "dimensions", but they still need to scrape samples out of old ladies with instruments, and have difficulty navigating thunderstorms without crashing?

    I'm sorry, but that just makes no sense.

    Of the choices:

    A : Benevolent Space Brothers

    B : Pineal-munching Predators

    C : Breakaway Civilization Con Job

    I'm leaning toward C.
     
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2018
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  12. Charlie Primero

    Charlie Primero Member

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    These guys seem genuine to me...

    Government contractor Scientist got attacked by Aliens whom the governments are building bases for at Taxpayer expense:



    Man who suffered greatly when abducted:

     
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  13. Wormwood

    Wormwood Member

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    Again, I wouldn’t get too caught up on the “benevolency ratings” of the abducters. Although it is interesting that they don’t seem like tormentors as much as they seem bent on performing their duty and moving on. Some aliens are probably dicks, as some people are dicks,’but they seem “under orders” to do their jobs and to return people home.And that some abductees are “told” not to worry and are sort of soothed and eased. And this is born out by the aforementioned lady whom Alex interviewed who did the largest questionare of its kind in the topic and the results came back that most abductees did not report the experience as negative. But that’s “cherry picking” eventually.

    What do you make of the Benny Hill case? Or the Travis Walton case? Have you listened to them tell their story? What seem to be the best attested and credible cases, were all abducted and remembered procedures being performed on them? Have you listened to them tel their stories? These seem to be highly credible. Which is also the opposite of cherry picking.

    As far as them performing experiments being silly, well we have credible people saying these experiments were done on them. Sure some are probably lunatics. But story after story is available and when you watch them give their story, you see the sincerity and often pain in their faces, and these people are having these experiences. So we have you saying that you think it’s weird that the aliens would do this, but then you actually have people with first hand experience saying that these things happen. So, you might think if you were an alien, that you might behave differently, but then we have people telling us how they actually see aliens behave.

    This is ridiculous to you, despite the testimonial evidence, which maybe you’ve spent some time watching and listening too, maybe you haven’t, but somehow the idea that demons are running around masquerading as innerplanatory brings, forming solid ships, and doing experiments on people, allowing people to approach the vessel and touch it (as reported in the rendelshsem case verified by multiple military officers) is definitely not silly and fits the data better.

    What do you make of the benny hill case, the Travis Walton case, and the rendelshem case?

    Also, remember, we both agree that there’s a spiritual aspect to this. It’s really the details that we disagree on. It’s possible that some or all alien beings are pure in spirit form, I don’t say that’s impossible. But all these cases I’ve listened to, if they are pure spirits, they are manifesting physical ships and becoming physical, at least temporarily at certain points.
     
  14. Wormwood

    Wormwood Member

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    Cool thanks for the videos I’ll check them out. Read my above post, I’m not trying to say that everybody gets a loving experience out of this. But so many people do, which is interesting and noteworthy.
     
  15. Wormwood

    Wormwood Member

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    I quote Travis Walton’s case all the time, his experience was very negative. So was the impact on his friends who were with him.
     
  16. Wormwood

    Wormwood Member

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    I think we are taking past each other a lot here
     
  17. Psiclops

    Psiclops Member

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  18. Charlie Primero

    Charlie Primero Member

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  19. Psiclops

    Psiclops Member

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  20. Ricochet

    Ricochet Member

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    I dunno. For my money, an equally convincing case could be made that they are some kind of tulpa generated by the collective human consciousness. The reason they are fascinated by human genitalia and anuses is because we are. The reason they don't want us to blow ourselves up is because they'd go too. ;)

    I don't get why people think actual biological aliens would want to or even could breed with humans. Heavens to betsy. Thats like trying to hybridize a human with a jellyfish, and we share a common ancestor. smh.

    Listened to a podcast from Beyond the Darkness a few weeks ago. They interviewed an older gentleman who had been abducted all his life, had sex with aliens, the whole bit. One claim he made that I found interesting was that these beings conceptualize their craft in their reality and slide it over here and it becomes physical matter. They don't even have to figure everything out, just imagine what they want it to do, and viola!

    https://www.podcastone.com/episode/Chosen-Chronicle-of-an-Alien-Abductee
     
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2018
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