Mod+ Mythology of UFOs and Abduction

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chuck.drake

#1
I'd like to use this thread to gather, discuss and catalog the mythological aspects of UFOs, aliens and the abduction phenomena. The assumption for this thread is that UFOs, aliens and abduction make up one of our living contemporary mythologies.

First off. This is a MOD+ thread. So we aren't debating the existence of UFOs or aliens or discussing physical proof, etc. This thread is about stepping back and looking at the story behind UFOs, aliens and abductions.

Definitely on topic for the thread is comparative mythology and how the various approaches to comparative mythology relate to this topic.

So in a nutshell:

1. What characters, actions, values, language, ideas, etc. comprise this mythology. How do we categorize them?
2. What is the "meaning" of the mythology? Where does it take us?
3. How does this mythology relate to other mythologies?

Hopefully this can be a fruitful and interesting thread. I know some folks on the forum are strong in comparative mythology studies, so I hope they can guide us in adding some structure to the study.
 
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chuck.drake

#2
I will start by adding some really basic stuff.

Keywords: Alien. Other. Fear. Medical procedures. Paralysis. Genetics. Hybridization. Horror. Sex. Global awareness. Salvation.
 
#3
Unless you're using "mythology" in a different way. labeling contact experiences as such is tantamount to claiming that they aren't actual physical happenings
 
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chuck.drake

#4
Unless you're using "mythology" in a different way. labeling contact experiences as such is tantamount to claiming that they aren't actual physical happenings
Well. I think that there are definitely people who are experiencing contact with the other. And I also think that there is something at least very like a mythology surrounding the whole phenomena. Can I have it both ways?
 
#5
Well. I think that there are definitely people who are experiencing contact with the other. And I also think that there is something at least very like a mythology surrounding the whole phenomena. Can I have it both ways?
There was one guy in John Mack's newer book, Passport to the Cosmos, that was a modern day shaman, IIRC. Anyhow, Mack asked him something about whether he thought his abduction experiences were physically real, or just psychological. The guy responded that to his people the distinction didn't really matter. Unlike us, they believe the mental world is as real, if not more real, than the physical world and that the abduction experience bridged both worlds. As does mythology! The distinct dividing line (or chasm, really) the western mind has created between the two is perhaps artificial. So, as nice as it might be to physically prove something is going on, I do think the "mythological", or psychological dimension, is as important, if not even more important to explore, as well. So, cool thread, hope to particpate more later ;-)
 
#6
I just got Evans-Wentz's book on the Fairy Faith. As I go through it, I'll keep you updated on the parallels in mythology if I recognize any . . . (I bought it at Vallee's recommendation/mention in Dimensions). I do believe, though, that of all related mythologies there are, I hands down find the parallels between the fairy faith and the UFO/alien phenomena the most intriguing.
 
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chuck.drake

#7
I just got Evans-Wentz's book on the Fairy Faith. As I go through it, I'll keep you updated on the parallels in mythology if I recognize any . . . (I bought it at Vallee's recommendation/mention in Dimensions). I do believe, though, that of all related mythologies there are, I hands down find the parallels between the fairy faith and the UFO/alien phenomena the most intriguing.
Thanks for doing that! I hope to get into this thread this weekend and add some content.
 
#8
Well. I think that there are definitely people who are experiencing contact with the other. And I also think that there is something at least very like a mythology surrounding the whole phenomena. Can I have it both ways?
I don't know about that. My three earliest memories are all related to this subject, and whether they are real or dreams, they show precocious knowledge of what you are calling "mythology" at a time when the subject hadn't been written about very much yet and I hadn't been exposed to the ideas. These three experiences were unlikely to have been crafted from ambient exposure to abduction stories for the simple reason that I hadn't heard of them until about the time the movie "Close encounters of the third kind" came out.

AP
 
#9
I don't know about that. My three earliest memories are all related to this subject, and whether they are real or dreams, they show precocious knowledge of what you are calling "mythology" at a time when the subject hadn't been written about very much yet and I hadn't been exposed to the ideas. These three experiences were unlikely to have been crafted from ambient exposure to abduction stories for the simple reason that I hadn't heard of them until about the time the movie "Close encounters of the third kind" came out.

AP
Maybe this is where Jung comes in handy! He mentions many cases where mythological symbols show up in people's dreams when they really had no exposure to the symbols, or even an educational background to understand the rich complexity of what was coming out of their unconscious each night. They sort of rise out of the collective unconscious, perhaps. So, I think saying something has a "mythological" element to it, doesn't mean it has to have been preceded by an external exposure.

Also, there is a heavy shamanistic element to many abduction encounters. Doesn't get much more mythological than that! Mack kind of makes a good argument that the abduction phenomenon may go back pretty far in history, as well, taking on slightly different forms depending upon the culture and the "mythology" one finds it in.

Maybe I misunderstood where you're coming from, though? I apologize, if so.

I was fascinated to find out that abduction stories came before Close Encounters, as mentioned in Mack's book. I guess a lot of skeptics claimed that abduction stories came after the movie and folks were just regurgitating stuff from that, hence the consistency in the reports. But, turns out they actually formed the details of the story in the movie by interviewing abductees who were geographically disparate but still had consistent stories - enough to make a movie around them! Pretty cool.
 
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Ian Gordon

Ninshub
Member
#10
I was fascinated to find out that abduction stories came before Close Encounters, as mentioned in Mack's book. I guess a lot of skeptics claimed that abduction stories came after the movie and folks were just regurgitating stuff from that, hence the consistency in the reports. But, turns out they actually formed the details of the story in the movie by interviewing abductees who were geographically disparate but still had consistent stories - enough to make a movie around them!.
This was mentioned in this part of the third video Pollux posted in the Mary Rodwell thread (go to exactly 25:00). The shape of the aliens in the film was said to have been modeled on abductee accounts:

Jacques Vallée was the model for the French scientist in the film (played by the extraordinary French film director François Truffaut!)

This is mentioned at the beginning of this interview (0m54s), where Vallée also talks about discussions he had with Spielberg as the film was being made, i.e. his (Vallée) not conceptualizing the aliens as "extra-terrestrials".

 
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chuck.drake

#11
I guess I could have used the term personal narrative. But there are so many more aspects from a gestalt perspective. Many aspects of the phenomena have become deeply embedded in American culture at the very least. The phenomena sometimes ties directly into ideas of Source and certainly has many signifiers that point to a greater reality than our normal daily existence. The phenomena plugs into ideas about the nature of good and evil. The phenomena comes pre-made to fit into certain meta-mythical frameworks like the hero's journey, for example.

So I'm wondering, if we consider the gestalt perspective--the entire phenomena--how do we refer to it collectively as it relates to narrative and thematic interpretation other than a type of living mythology? There are probably terms out there I am unaware of, but I just picked mythology because that was what felt closest to the mark to me.

Keep in mind that I am totally on board with the idea that entities from "elsewhere" may well be the driving force behind these events for many of the experiencers. I'm not denying that.

I'm trying to think of another phenomena that may generate a lot of narratives. Let's say we collect narratives all over the world from people who are mugged. We have an experiencer and an "other". The other is acting against the experiencer. Now if we gathered all these narratives we would no doubt find patterns--people perhaps taking shortcuts through alleys when they normally stick to the lighted paths; fear would be a common attribute; and there would undoubtedly be after effects of anger. But it is unlikely, even if we gathered a million narratives of mugging, when we looked at the entirely of our work that we would see the kinds of attributes we are seeing in the UFO/abduction phenomena, which to me, when considered narratively and thematically feels like nothing so much as a mythology.
 
#12
Maybe this is where Jung comes in handy! He mentions many cases where mythological symbols show up in people's dreams when they really had no exposure to the symbols, or even an educational background to understand the rich complexity of what was coming out of their unconscious each night. They sort of rise out of the collective unconscious, perhaps. So, I think saying something has a "mythological" element to it, doesn't mean it has to have been preceded by an external exposure.

Also, there is a heavy shamanistic element to many abduction encounters. Doesn't get much more mythological than that! Mack kind of makes a good argument that the abduction phenomenon may go back pretty far in history, as well, taking on slightly different forms depending upon the culture and the "mythology" one finds it in.

Maybe I misunderstood where you're coming from, though? I apologize, if so.

I was fascinated to find out that abduction stories came before Close Encounters, as mentioned in Mack's book. I guess a lot of skeptics claimed that abduction stories came after the movie and folks were just regurgitating stuff from that, hence the consistency in the reports. But, turns out they actually formed the details of the story in the movie by interviewing abductees who were geographically disparate but still had consistent stories - enough to make a movie around them! Pretty cool.
I enjoy Jung's work but only because he realized that Freudian psychology was a dead end. His work on symbols is unconvincing to me because he declares too many things to be symbols and loses sight of what a symbol is: a way to clarify and optimize communication. If the supposed symbol is not clear, it does not enhance or optimize communication (by inviting variant interpretations.)

AP
 
#13
A couple things from "The Fairy Faith in Celtic Countries." They're short and sweet, but thought I'd go ahead and make mention:

(For those that don't know, these are personal accounts recorded by Evans-Wentz a little over a hundred years ago by what would've generally at the time been considered the old-timers).

This bit about being away for multiple years is hard for me to swallow, by the way. It's the other parts (not remembering and the blank mind, plus the fact that it was considered being either physical or spiritual) that prompt me to share it:

"Persons in a short trance-state of two or three days' duration are said to be away with the fairies enjoying a festival. The festival may be very material in its nature, or it may be purely spiritual. Sometimes one may thus go to Fairie for an hour or two; or may remain there for seven, fourteen, or twenty-one years. The mind of a person coming out of Fairyland is usually a blank as to what has been seen and done there. Another idea is that the person knows well enough all about Fairyland, but is prevented from communicating the knowledge. A certain woman of whom I knew said she had forgotten all about her experiences in Fairie, but a friend who heard her objected, and said she did remember, and wouldn't tell. A man may remain awake at night to watch one who has been away with to Fairyland to see if that one holds communication with the fairies. Others say in such a case that the fairies know you are on the alert, and will not be discovered."

Another testimony:

". . . The gentry are the most noble tribe of all; and they are a big race who came from the planets - according to my idea . . . "
 
#14
I enjoy Jung's work but only because he realized that Freudian psychology was a dead end. His work on symbols is unconvincing to me because he declares too many things to be symbols and loses sight of what a symbol is: a way to clarify and optimize communication. If the supposed symbol is not clear, it does not enhance or optimize communication (by inviting variant interpretations.)
AP
I don't think he loses sight of what a symbol is. You're giving the more pragmatic definition of a symbol. I think equating, say, a stop sign to a mandala is missing what a mythological symbol is all about. It's not about communication. Mythological symbols reference the transcendent, the (super/un)conscious and what is just plain beyond words, or communication. As Jung said, "mythological symbols have one foot planted in the finite and the other in the infinite". They're meant to open the mind to greater aspects of awareness and reality. Indeed, they arise from these realms.

Also, Jung's work is complimentary to Joseph Campbell's work, Alan Watt's work, Heinrich Zimmer's work, etc. If we throw out Jung's work on symbols, you kinda gotta disregard a whole body of work within comparative mythology and some aspects of philosophy, because they're all harmoniously consistent with each other to a great extent.
 
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#15
This was mentioned in this part of the third video Pollux posted in the Mary Rodwell thread (go to exactly 25:00). The shape of the aliens in the film was said to have been modeled on abductee accounts:

Jacques Vallée was the model for the French scientist in the film (played by the extraordinary French film director François Truffaut!)

This is mentioned at the beginning of this interview (0m54s), where Vallée also talks about discussions he had with Spielberg as the film was being made, i.e. his (Vallée) not conceptualizing the aliens as "extra-terrestrials".
Thanks Ian. Looks like I got some fun videos to watch tomorrow ;-)
 
#16
What about the Intra-Earthians known as the People of Light Plasma? I have access to a gigabyte worth of data on them. According to the participants in the sittings where they come through, they have saved the world from the "bad" aliens and CBS or one of the networks affiliates is going to produce a documentary in 2014 on them.
 
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#17
Well. I think that there are definitely people who are experiencing contact with the other. And I also think that there is something at least very like a mythology surrounding the whole phenomena. Can I have it both ways?
And several other ways.

There is the disinformation campaigns emanating from intelligence arena, their involvement in producing the mental images of these events, lower astral and earthbound discarnates who like a good joke. It's not cut and dried black n white. There are many grey (gray?) areas.

Here is a well researched and detailed discussion if you like.

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread876881/pg1
 
#18
I've given permane
What are you going on about, mate? If you have something to bring to the table, roll it out here.
I have granted permanent access to the information about the People of Plasma invasion to the author of this thread. If he desires to make that information available, he can. It's his call whether or not it is on topic.

If you would like the access, drop me a conversation
 
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