N Korea and Western Citizens?

Steve

Steve

Member
I was discussing things with a friend of mine last night on Facebook. Our posts are copied here:

Me:
Maybe some of them (N Korean citizens)are frightened, but many of them appear to me so brainwashed that they are effectively have an attitude like Jihad. I wouldn't be too worried about targeting the Clyde. I think the missiles are a bit too Heath Robinson for that sort of range. Still, I could be surprised!

My friend:
As brainwashed as the rest of us..the citizens of NK are afraid and controlled . Our own beloved nation is also kept in a state of perpetual fear by state controlled 'news' .The threat of immigrants, national security, jihadists and all the other bullshit that does NOT affect any of us on a daily basis but makes the electorate agree to ridiculous restrictions to personal freedom and a CCTV state . We are all lambs to the slaughter to feed the world elite.

Me:
I feel sure there are different levels of brainwashing. Your post has me thinking, Is there that much difference between say us, and the citizens of N Korea. I would like to think there is, but....

It got me thinking that there might not be that much difference between the two populations, what are your thoughts?
 
I don't know how to compare levels of brainwashing, but I think many in the west are brainwashed by the news media.

http://ncu9nc.blogspot.com/2017/03/most-news-stories-are-crafted-to.html
Problems can be identified and solutions found without experiencing anger, fear, and hate. But we are programmed by the media to react with those emotions every time we think of the other political party or hear their views expressed. It is a major cause of political polarization in the US.
​
There was a study done that found that if it wasn't for the news media, most people in the US would be more conservative.
http://timgroseclose.com/about-left-turn/


Dr. Tim Groseclose, a professor of political science and economics at UCLA, has spent years constructing precise, quantitative measures of the slants of media outlets. He does this by measuring the political content of news and converting that content into an SQ, or “slant quotient,” of the outlet. To determine bias, he compares SQs of news outlets to the PQs, or “political quotients,” of voters and politicians.


Groseclose contends that the general leftward bias of the media has shifted the PQ of the average American by about 20 points on a scale of 100, the difference between (i) the current political views of the average American and (ii) the political views of the average resident of Orange County, California or Salt Lake County, Utah.
​
 
Last edited:
Steve said:
It got me thinking that there might not be that much difference between the two populations, what are your thoughts?
Click to expand...
As people, who have to have to make a living somehow, people everywhere are much the same and have the same concerns.

However, from the limited information we have, such things as the education system and media inside NK are different to ours, there apparently is more of a monoculture, an expectation of conformity which is quite different to the more varied attitudes we have. From time to time one hears accounts from defectors who leave the country and one might argue that by definition their views will be biassed, nevertheless, they represent one of the few sources of accurate first-hand information.
One such fragment of information:
 
In the US the educational system indoctrinates students into liberal views.

http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-e...conservatives-hiring-20160520-snap-story.html

Professors are overwhelmingly liberal.
​
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2017/feb/7/anti-trump-bullying-breaks-out-against-students-at/

A toxic political atmosphere fueled by nonstop media outrage and ubiquitous protest is showing signs of seeping into classrooms across the country, as reports of bullying against elementary, middle and high school students who openly support President Trump proliferate.​


https://www.usatoday.com/story/opin...ichigan-yale-glenn-reynolds-column/93765568/#

'Tolerant' educators exile Trump voters from campus:
...
when you treat an election in which the “wrong” candidate wins as a traumatic event on a par with the 9/11 attacks, calling for counseling and safe spaces, you’re implicitly saying that everyone who supported that “wrong” candidate is, well, unsafe. Despite the talk about diversity and inclusion, this is really sending the signal that people who supported Trump — and Trump is leading the state of Michigan, so there are probably quite a few on campus — aren’t really included in acceptable campus culture. It’s not promoting diversity; it’s enforcing uniformity. It’s not promoting inclusion; it’s practicing exclusion. And though it pretends to be about nurturing, it’s actually about being mean to those who don’t fall in the nurtured class. Schlissel wrote he wants the university to be “a welcoming place for all members of society,” but how welcome can students who backed Trump feel in the wake of this performance?

​
http://professorwatchlist.org/index.php/about-us

The mission of Professor Watchlist is to expose and document college professors who discriminate against conservative students and advance leftist propaganda in the classroom.

This website is an aggregated list of pre-existing news stories that were published by a variety of news organizations throughout the past few years. While we accept tips for new additions on our website, we only publish profiles on incidents that have already been reported somewhere else. TPUSA will continue to fight for free speech and the right for professors to say whatever they wish; however students, parents, and alumni deserve to know the specific incidents and names of professors that advance a radical agenda in lecture halls.



​
https://www.thefire.org/list-of-campus-disinvitations-2000-2014/
List of Campus Disinvitation Attempts, 2000–2014
By FIRE June 3, 2014

As we note in our 2014 Disinvitation Report, the following list is not exhaustive, and will be updated as our research warrants. If you are aware of any incidents that you believe were not included, or that took place before 2000, please email a link to, scan of, or citation for a reliable media report about that incident to disinvitation@thefire.org.

Key:

Pink – Incidents in which a speaker’s invitation was formally rescinded
Blue – Incidents in which a speaker withdrew in the face of protest
Yellow – Incidents in which students or faculty persistently disrupted the speaker, effectively preventing the speaker from conveying his or her message (the “heckler’s veto”)
White – Incidents in which the disinvitation attempt was ultimately unsuccessful

Year School Speaker
2000 Maris College Bob Kerrey
2000 Old Dominion University Fred Rogers
2000 University of Texas at Austin Henry Kissinger
2000 The George Washington University Madeline Albright
2000 University of California, Berkeley Madeline Albright
2000 Antioch College Mumia Abu-Jamal
2001 Cornell University Ann Coulter
2001 Stanford University Carly Fiorina
2001 Seton Hall University Delores E. Cross
2001 Yale University George W. Bush
2002 Stanford University Condoleezza Rice
2002 James Madison University Doris Kearns Goodwin
2002 University of Delaware Doris Kearns Goodwin
2002 Ohio State University George W. Bush
2002 California State University, Sacramento Janis Besler Heaphy
2002 University of California, Berkeley Jonny Moseley
2002 University of California, Los Angeles Laura Bush
2002 Syracuse University Rudy Giuliani
2002 Harvard University Tom Paulin
2002 Harvard University Zayed Yasin
2003 Georgetown University Cardinal Francis Arinze
2003 Rockford College Chris Hedges
2003 College of the Holy Cross Chris Matthews
2003 Michigan State University Dan Flynn
2003 Saint Louis University Donald J. Carty
2003 Princeton University Fred Hargadon
2003 Guilford College Howard Coble
2003 Saint Joseph’s University Rick Santorum
2003 University of California, Berkeley Ward Connerly
2003 Rutgers University Natan Sharansky
2004 Mount Saint Mary’s College Alberto Gonzales
2004 University of Arizona Ann Coulter
2004 Villanova University Caroll Spinney (Big Bird)
2004 University of Arizona George W. Bush
2004 American University Michelle Malkin
2004 University of Saint Francis Nancy Snyderman
2004 Hamilton College Susan Rosenberg
2005 Butler University David Horowitz
2005 Calvin College George W. Bush
2005 Santa Monica College Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger
2005 Rice University Michelle Hebl
2005 California State University, East Bay Richard Rodriguez
2005 Middlebury College Rudolph Giuliani
2005 New York University Shirley Tilghman
2005 Hamilton College Ward Churchill
2005 Earlham College William Kristol
2005 University of Wisconsin – Whitewater Ward Churchill
2005 Antioch College Ward Churchill
2005 Wheaton College Ward Churchill
2005 Eastern Washington University Ward Churchill
2006 Boston College Condoleezza Rice
2006 Oklahoma State University George W. Bush
2006 Columbia University Jim Gilchrist
2006 Columbia University John McCain
2006 The New School John McCain
2006 Columbia University Mahmoud Ahmadinejad
2006 Brown University Nonie Darwish
2006 Portland State University Peter DeFazio
2006 Nova Southeastern University Salman Rushdie
2006 Brandeis University Tony Kushner
2007 University of St. Thomas Archbishop Desmond Tutu
2007 Brigham Young University Dick Cheney
2007 Saint Vincent College George W. Bush
2007 Columbia University Jim Gilchrist
2007 Saint Mary’s College Justice Samuel Alito
2007 University of California Lawrence Summers
2007 Regent University Mitt Romney
2007 Harvard University Robert Trivers
2007 College of Saint Mary Roberta Wilhelm
2008 St. Catherine University Al Franken
2008 St. Catherine University Bay Buchanan
2008 University of Georgia Clarence Thomas
2008 Furman University George W. Bush
2008 St. Catherine University Hillary Clinton
2008 Northwestern University Jeremiah Wright
2008 Northwestern School of Law Jerry Springer
2008 Aquinas College John Corvino
2008 The George Washington University Julian Bond
2008 Boston College Michael Mukasey
2008 Washington University in St. Louis Phyllis Schlafly
2008 Smith College Ryan Sorba
2008 University of Nebraska William Ayers
2009 Arizona State University Barack Obama
2009 University of Notre Dame Barack Obama
2009 University of Vermont Ben Stein
2009 King’s College Bob Casey
2009 Saint Louis University David Horowitz
2009 University of Massachusetts Amherst Don Feder
2009 Xavier University of Louisiana Donna Brazile
2009 University of California, Los Angeles James Franco
2009 Harvard University Jim Gilchrist
2009 McHenry County College Marc Falkoff
2009 UCLA Anderson School of Management Meg Whitman
2009 University of North Carolina School of Law Michael Mukasey
2009 California Polytechnic State University Michael Pollan
2009 Princeton University Nonie Darwish
2009 University of Massachusetts Raymond Luc Levasseur
2009 University of Oklahoma Richard Dawkins
2009 University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill Tom Tancredo
2009 Boston College William Ayers
2009 DePaul University Jacob Shrybman
2009 DePaul University Natan Sharansky
2009 Saint Louis University Jacob Shrybman
2009 University of Chicago Ehud Olmert
2009 University of Kentucky Ehud Olmert
2010 Seton Hall University School of Law Chris Christie
2010 Temple University Geert Wilders
2010 Syracuse University Jamie Dimon
2010 Ohio Wesleyan University John McCain
2010 State University of New York at Oswego John McHugh
2010 Butler University John Roberts
2010 University of Minnesota Karl Rove
2010 Brandeis University Michael Oren
2010 University of California, Irvine Michael Oren
2010 The George Washington University Michelle Obama
2010 Saint Louis University Pietro Sambi
2010 University of Arizona Sandra Soto
2010 University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill Tom Tancredo
2010 Indiana University Tom Woods
2010 Columbia University, School of International and Public Affairs Vikram Pandit
2010 University of Wyoming William Ayers
2011 Villanova University Anna Quindlen
2011 Washington University in St. Louis Bristol Palin
2011 University of California, Santa Barbara David Horowitz
2011 San Diego City College District Attorney Bonnie Dumanis
2011 University of Pennsylvania Eric Cantor
2011 Messiah College Frances Piven
2011 Dartmouth College George H.W. Bush
2011 Fontbonne University Greg Mortenson
2011 Messiah College Jason Mattera
2011 The Catholic University of America John Boehner
2011 Washington University in St. Louis Marvin Casey
2011 Rutgers University Nicole Polizzi
2011 Everett Community College Raymond Ibrahim
2011 Worcester Polytechnic Institute Rex Tillerson
2011 University of Michigan Rick Snyder
2011 University of Wisconsin Roger Clegg
2011 Albright College Tom Corbett
2011 City University of New York Tony Kushner
2011 Anna Maria College Victoria Reggie Kennedy
2012 Fordham University Ann Coulter
2012 Gonzaga University Archbishop Desmond Tutu
2012 Emory University Ben Carson
2012 The George Washington University Carlos Slim
2012 Fordham University John Brennan
2012 Earlham College Jonah Lehrer
2012 Georgetown University Kathleen Sebelius
2012 University of North Carolina Michael Bloomberg
2012 Cornish College of the Arts Mike Daisey
2012 Liberty University Mitt Romney
2012 University of California, Irvine Osama Shabaik
2012 Indiana University Bloomington Pastor Douglas Wilson
2012 Adrian College Pat Boone
2012 Mercy College: St. Elizabeth Campus Rep. Robert Hagan
2012 Michigan State University Rick Snyder
2012 Temple University Robert Spencer, Nonie Darwish, Pamela Geller
2012 University of San Diego Tina Beattie
2013 The George Washington University Alec Baldwin
2013 University of Michigan Alice Walker
2013 Xavier University Anthony Munoz
2013 Johns Hopkins University Ben Carson
2013 Midwestern State University Ben Carson
2013 University of Montana – Western Carol & Pat Williams
2013 Skidmore College Cynthia Carroll
2013 Boston College Enda Kenny
2013 University of California, Berkeley Eric Holder
2013 University of Oklahoma Fareed Zakaria
2013 Duquesne University Geraldo Rivera
2013 Georgetown University Greta Van Susteren
2013 Pasadena City College James Deen
2013 University of Michigan Jennifer Gratz
2013 Providence College John Corvino
2013 University of Massachusetts Amherst Karl Rove
2013 Morehouse College Kevin Johnson
2013 Western New England University School of Law Lois Lerner
2013 University of Pennsylvania Narendra Modi
2013 Benedictine College Paul Ryan
2013 St. John’s University Peter King
2013 Georgetown University Ramy Jan
2013 Brown University Ray Kelly
2013 Grand Valley State University Rick Snyder
2013 Swarthmore College Robert Zoellick
2013 Saint Louis University Scott Brown
2013 University of Illinois Shahid Khan
2013 Coastal Carolina University Tim Scott
2013 Millersville University Tom Corbett
2014 Suffolk University Abraham Foxman
2014 Brandeis University Ayaan Hirsi Ali
2014 Barnard College Cecile Richards
2014 Azusa Pacific University Charles Murray
2014 Smith College Christine Lagarde (IMF)
2014 Rutgers University Condoleezza Rice
2014 University of Minnesota Condoleezza Rice
2014 Pasadena City College Dustin Lance Black
2014 Montana Tech of the University of Montana Greg Gianforte
2014 University of California, Hastings College of Law Janet Napolitano
2014 Harvard University Michael Bloomberg
2014 Harvard University Graduate School of Education Michael Johnston
2014 University of California – Irvine Nonie Darwish
2014 Haverford College Robert J. Birgeneau
2014 Howard University Sean “Diddy” Combs
2014 Laney College Janet Napolitano
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
Typoz said:
As people, who have to have to make a living somehow, people everywhere are much the same and have the same concerns.
Click to expand...

What lies beneath the everyday needs of the two sets of people? When we dig beneath these requirements, what do people really 'believe'?

Maybe a comparison could be made with different minds represented by different surface layers of earth. A person growing up in N Korea develops a soil that is much harder to shift, its deeply compacted by the dry 'monoculture' that your post mentions, it is hard and dry, like concrete. It's more likely that in the west, many of us are able to grow up with less compacting of the soil, the 'enlightened' beings having healthy loose soil, easily dug up with a spade. Where a majority of N Koreans require the use of a pickaxe to make any impact.

In a way, I can't see that much difference between the pointless propaganda spewed forth by Kim Jung Un and the pointless propaganda spewed forth by our Prime Minister Theresa May. I know that there is a difference, but _for me_ they're not ones that make a difference from where I'm sitting. The question is, would the majority of N Koreans swop places with me? Or are they so 'gone' that they believe Kim's propaganda?

Something that arose while I was thinking about all this, I'll include it here, even if it's out of place.

There are not many beings that are enlightened, or awake, or whatever you would prefer calling it, in the west, never mind N Korea. I personally believe that the path to enlightenment is a very long one, taking place over many lifetimes, and is a gradual shift, not a sudden change, although the gradual shift may consist of long periods of flatlines, followed by changes which may seem like 'the final leap'.
 
This thread brings up the Hypnosis conferences I been going to and how easy it is to persuade people through their own power. They call it the power of suggestion
 
Steve said:
What lies beneath the everyday needs of the two sets of people? When we dig beneath these requirements, what do people really 'believe'?

Maybe a comparison could be made with different minds represented by different surface layers of earth. A person growing up in N Korea develops a soil that is much harder to shift, its deeply compacted by the dry 'monoculture' that your post mentions, it is hard and dry, like concrete. It's more likely that in the west, many of us are able to grow up with less compacting of the soil, the 'enlightened' beings having healthy loose soil, easily dug up with a spade. Where a majority of N Koreans require the use of a pickaxe to make any impact.
Click to expand...
I'm not sure I'd go that far, certainly I'm unwilling to generalise. I'd consider that we have more information available to us - that is the one of the biggest differences - but I'm not sure that we are necessarily more 'enlightened'.

In a way, I can't see that much difference between the pointless propaganda spewed forth by Kim Jung Un and the pointless propaganda spewed forth by our Prime Minister Theresa May. I know that there is a difference, but _for me_ they're not ones that make a difference from where I'm sitting. The question is, would the majority of N Koreans swop places with me? Or are they so 'gone' that they believe Kim's propaganda?
Click to expand...
If there is little alternative information available, the official government line may seem the only possible view. I don't think the people would necessarily want to swap places with us, they'd more likely be aiming for a higher standard of living and less brutality, but within the existing system, not outside of it.

Something that arose while I was thinking about all this, I'll include it here, even if it's out of place.

There are not many beings that are enlightened, or awake, or whatever you would prefer calling it, in the west, never mind N Korea. I personally believe that the path to enlightenment is a very long one, taking place over many lifetimes, and is a gradual shift, not a sudden change, although the gradual shift may consist of long periods of flatlines, followed by changes which may seem like 'the final leap'.
Click to expand...
I wonder if being 'enlightened' disqualifies us from even being here - sometimes in other sources of information on the progress of the soul (or whatever word one feels comfortable with), it is said that even to approach the Earthly domain can feel limiting or oppressive, here in this life even to be ordinary may be an achievement.
 
Steve said:
I can't see that much difference between the pointless propaganda spewed forth by Kim Jung Un and the pointless propaganda spewed forth by our Prime Minister Theresa May.
Click to expand...

The difference is that we in the still have some remnant of a Free Press that Communism has not managed to take control of, yet.

Freedom of Speech is evaporating fast, but the passion among young people to protect it is growing in response.

Witness the Free Speech Rally in Berkeley, California yesterday where Free Speech Advocates rose up to defend themselves against the violent Communists attempting to stop them from speaking...

 
I suspect there's an incredible, chasm wide difference between the populace in any democracy and that in N.Korea.

Most people are very good at ignoring logical fallacies (or not being aware of them at all). There are also numerous biases one has to manage in one's own self. People are very good at lumping together those dissenting from them as a kind of Other, invoking supposed principles to push agendas they want, creating self-serving narratives about being victimized, etc. This is true of "liberals", "conservatives", even socialist and libertarians.

But even with all those problems, the sheer number of potential factions in democratic societies with access to the internet allows for multiple viewpoints in a way N.Koreans don't have access to. I've no idea what the average N.Korean thinks of all this, from what little footage I recall it's very hard to get them to speak dissenting views because of the fear they have.
 
Typoz said:
I'm not sure I'd go that far, certainly I'm unwilling to generalise. I'd consider that we have more information available to us - that is the one of the biggest differences - but I'm not sure that we are necessarily more 'enlightened'.
Click to expand...

If enlightenment is a sliding scale, as I suspect, I think we, as a group, are probably able to be further up the scale as a group. I guess it depends on how much effect the national brainwashing really has.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top