NDE Criteria

#1
I posed a question do Dr. Long and was not satisfied with the answer. Here was my question in part:

Hi Dr Long,

“One thing I don’t understand is why is it labeled on your website a possible near death experience when there is nothing really “near death” about it? Why not call it a “near death-like” experience? For example , the NDE offered for 2/10/20, a possible NDE due to a near faint associated with medical blood draw. There is nothing “near death” about fainting.

Also have u read any material from dr Gregory Shushan .. u can hear him on skeptiko podcast (episode 422) that talks about cross cultural differences in NDE’s. Ur website makes it seem like most NDE’s share all these elements but when u really look at other cultures and across time, yes there r many similarities but there are also many differences and some don’t even mention tunnels , life reviews or meeting a being of light.”

his response :

“Regarding NDE classifications we have to draw the line somewhere. If they lose consciousness then it is a life threatening event because if they don’t regain consciousness they irreversibly die. “Possible” NDE means less than 50% chance it really was an NDE. Of note, no possible NDE’s or probable NDE’s are used in researching NDE’s.

I am aware of Dr Shushan’s work, but have not had time to review it sufficiently to comment further.“

I appreciate Dr Long taking time to reply and I stated more in my question , stating it was not a criticism and I enjoy his website and read his books and posting this is not a criticism either.

I was looking for other opinions and feedback on others ideas about the criteria for NDE classifications . In the above mentioned NDE , I forgot to mention in my question that it said “near faint”, and the reply was saying it is a near death event because if one loses consciousness ... etc . But it didn’t say the person even fainted . Just “near faint”. How NDE’s are classified and defined is very important .

What are everyone’s opinions...
 
#2
The definition of NDE includes such experiences.

See for example the online NDE Course on the IANDS website

Online NDE Course

Although it requests name / email to access the course, as fas as I'm aware it will accept any values.


I found the course interesting in its own right, not just with reference to the current question.
 
#3
Bill,

I think we need to realise that we have to take NDE's as they are. Researchers chose to study people who had had a cardiac arrest and an NDE because these are particularly hard to explain conventionally - particularly when these people make observations from the vantage point of the ceiling. There is no particular claim that these events only take place in the context of extreme danger.

I was once talking with three friends as we ate a snack in a cafe. The subject of death and an afterlife came up, and all three took the materialist line. I didn't - I declared myself uncertain, and pointed out the existence of NDE experiences while people were in cardiac arrest. One of them then described a remarkable experience he had aged about four. He was in a shop with his grandma, and it was hot and stuffy. Suddenly he found himself up high, looking down on himself and his grandma. Shortly after he found himself back in his body. His grandma seemed scared and was shaking him 'awake'.

This suggests to me that these events may be more common than we think, but if someone has one without any extra story, such as a near drowning or cardiac arrest, they just keep the experience to themselves.

David
 
#4
Interesting story, thanks.

This suggests to me that these events may be more common than we think, but if someone has one without any extra story, such as a near drowning or cardiac arrest, they just keep the experience to themselves.
Not only that, but even those undergoing such things as near drowning or cardiac arrest may tell of the physical events, but keep the experiences (if any) to themselves. Things may be getting better, slowly. There are a number of accounts of people experiencing an NDE and keeping it to themselves for many decades, after perhaps getting a bad reaction from others (such as ridicule or the work of satan) when first attempting to describe what had happened. There is a great deal which remains unspoken, things which people feel obliged to keep to themselves.
 
#5
Interesting story, thanks.


Not only that, but even those undergoing such things as near drowning or cardiac arrest may tell of the physical events, but keep the experiences (if any) to themselves. Things may be getting better, slowly. There are a number of accounts of people experiencing an NDE and keeping it to themselves for many decades, after perhaps getting a bad reaction from others (such as ridicule or the work of satan) when first attempting to describe what had happened. There is a great deal which remains unspoken, things which people feel obliged to keep to themselves.
Yes, I get the feeling that the guy I mentioned had only spoken to a few people (maybe even nobody?) about what happened.

David
 
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