NDEs of animals?

#1
Hi there,

Do you think animals also experience NDEs? How do you think they experience it? Many common themes in NDEs include Bright Loving Light and telepathic communication with spirits, which are most often presented in human form and in male and female parts. What about animals that lack some of our senses and asexual animals or hermaphrodite animals? For example a snail undergoes a NDE - do you think it will experience communication with hermaphrodite snail-like spirits or they will still be human-like male and female spirits? And what if a bacteria undergoes a NDE?
 
#2
I would imagine that they are far less common, because most animals don't get resuscitated, but I would guess a few do.

I can't see how anyone could investigate this, and I'd hate them to try because of the suffering that would presumably be involved (at least to begin with). There have already been experiments in which rats had their EEG's monitored while being decapitated. This showed a burst of brain activity some time after the decapitation, but nobody seems to agree what that meant!

David
 
#3
Thanks for the reply, David. I actually wanted to raise the question of whether the astral realm (or whatever it is people observe while in NDE state) is actually an objective form of reality or just some experience generated by the mind to make the potential transition appear more peaceful. Some people report very detailed OBEs during their NDEs during which they clairvoyantly observe details which are later verified. So is this the objective reality? The astral realm? How could a bacteria experience the astral realm though?
 
#4
I know that people experience animals in THEIR own NDE's. Thats without question. Former pets, strange animals etc, are frequently encountered. I can pull up some links if you'd like. If you accept that people have souls (which they do) I can't imagine stopping at the point that conscious beings called humans have souls, but conscious beings called animals do not. That view to me is quite ridiculous and baseless. So then if we accept that we are souls who have a body, and that the soul somehow communicates through the brain, and that the soul "breaks off" from the brain during death, allowing the soul to fully experience the spirit realm, I think we have to conclude that it is highly probable that animals have the same experience. Of course thats as far as we can go with it as we cannot inquire as to whether or not these animals had that experience unfortunately.

As an interesting, somewhat related, side, people do noted that animals and various pets are aware of their soul during NDE's.
 
#5
Thanks for the reply, David. I actually wanted to raise the question of whether the astral realm (or whatever it is people observe while in NDE state) is actually an objective form of reality or just some experience generated by the mind to make the potential transition appear more peaceful. Some people report very detailed OBEs during their NDEs during which they clairvoyantly observe details which are later verified. So is this the objective reality? The astral realm? How could a bacteria experience the astral realm though?
I tend to THINK that the realm experienced during NDE's is a combination of the both. Subjective taste and need and objective reality. But of course, who knows.
 
#6
I would imagine that they are far less common, because most animals don't get resuscitated, but I would guess a few do.

I can't see how anyone could investigate this, and I'd hate them to try because of the suffering that would presumably be involved (at least to begin with). There have already been experiments in which rats had their EEG's monitored while being decapitated. This showed a burst of brain activity some time after the decapitation, but nobody seems to agree what that meant!

David
Right, its hard enough to prove the OBE or NDE in human subjects, let alone animals.
 
#7
Thanks for the reply, David. I actually wanted to raise the question of whether the astral realm (or whatever it is people observe while in NDE state) is actually an objective form of reality or just some experience generated by the mind to make the potential transition appear more peaceful. Some people report very detailed OBEs during their NDEs during which they clairvoyantly observe details which are later verified. So is this the objective reality? The astral realm? How could a bacteria experience the astral realm though?
The idea that the brain somehow supplies a soothing experience to help people through death, is generally raised by materialists, so I think it is justifiable to use a totally materialist argument to refute it:

Materialists argue that all life evolved by a process of selection of the fittest. You know the story - if some creature acquired a gene that helped it live longer and pass its genes on more efficiently, than that would be selected for. Repeated zillions of times, that scenario is supposed to have given rise to us (I don't believe that theory any more, but that is beside the point). OK - well how could NDE's evolve to give us a peaceful death - I mean how would an animal pass on its genes more efficiently if it had the NDE-gene. Moreover, NDE's are a complex phenomenon - this wouldn't be a single mutation.

The only way I can imagine this working (totally tongue in cheek) would be that if grandma didn't have this gene, and died in fear and agony, her offspring might be put off copulating for a few days, and so give rise to fewer offspring!

David
 
#8
If you accept that people have souls (which they do) I can't imagine stopping at the point that conscious beings called humans have souls, but conscious beings called animals do not. That view to me is quite ridiculous and baseless.
Agreed! The distinction between animals and humans in this regard seems to have come from Christianity, but it doesn't make sense. All the main issues regarding explaining consciousness still apply to animal consciousness - e.g. the hard problem.

Appropriately, our cat is sitting on my knee as I write this!

David
 
#9
Agreed! The distinction between animals and humans in this regard seems to have come from Christianity, but it doesn't make sense. All the main issues regarding explaining consciousness still apply to animal consciousness - e.g. the hard problem.

Appropriately, our cat is sitting on my knee as I write this!

David
My Irish setter is right by my side at this moment. Anybody who'd say she or any other dog is devoid of bona fide consciousness never had a dog.
 
#10
OK guys, some common themes in an out-of-body experience during NDEs include:
- expanded vision
- heightened sensitiveness to sounds
- immediate knowing the thoughts and intentions of other people

So if a bacteria undergoes a OBE, do you think it will experience the same? I doubt it very much. There are many different types of bacteria with different specialized senses, but bacterias definitely have no sense of sight in the way we have, some of them have photo-sensitive receptors, but most of their senses are chemically oriented (i.e. know where to run towards for food). I also doubt it will aquire understanding about the intentions of humans.

I think that whatever experiences the OBE is still somehow related to the form it's experiencing it in. By the 'form' I don't mean the physical form, but the etheric/astral body that serves as the blueprint organizing the different cells and structures to recreate the form in physical reality.
 
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