NEAR-DEATH EXPERIENCE OF A FINE ARTS PAINTER

#1
Someone included me in a private conversation about this NDE:

http://nhneneardeath.ning.com/forum/topics/near-death-experience-of-a-fine-arts-painter-my-husband

Since it has been posted publicly on the internet elsewhere, I would rather discuss it here in the forums because forum threads offer technical functionality that is not available in private messages so I am starting a thread here.

This thread is not mod+ so alternative views are welcome except that materialist views should be expressed in the Critical Discussions .. forum.
 
#2
These two quotes do not contradict each other:

“I could feel my attachment to the scene receding as I began to realize that everything was perfect and going according to plan in the greater tapestry.”
Anita Moorjani, Dying to Be Me: My Journey from Cancer, to Near Death, to True Healing


“Since the tapestry of all time has already been woven, everything I could ever want to happen in my life already exists in that infinite, nonphysical plane. My only task is to expand my earthly self enough to let it into this realm. So if there's something I desire, the idea isn't to go out and get it, but to expand my own consciousness to allow universal energy to bring it into my reality here.”
― Anita Moorjani, Dying to Be Me: My Journey from Cancer, to Near Death, to True Healing

Yes, there is a plan. Yes, your choices affect your future.

For example, something might happen to a person that is part of a plan. How they react to that event and therefore what happens next, could be a result of their own choice.
 
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#3
Thank you for placing it here, Jim.
I will copy it again because the NHNE is not so easy to read.

Diego Walcopz Valencia near-death experience:

“I was in bed , when suddenly I saw myself near the roof top looking down at my body. I was floating on it, and at the beginning I didn´t recognize it.
I first told myself: “whose body could it be ?” because it looked strange, until finally I recognized it as mine

Then a voice told me: “come on”. I felt that person near me, although I couldn`t see him and we began going up through a viaduct full of humid like fog which was refreshing. I saw other viaducts with people going up.
I thought “I am leaving life on the planet, my life ended, this is it.” I asked: “did it end?” and the voice said: “it seems like it did”

I left my body with a sensation of an ascending pathway and flew to a place which was still.. There was a subtle bluish fog, a dark dimness Suddenly I thought. “am I talking to myself”? I kept on ascending until I arrived to a sort of small square. There were 2 beings of whom I could only see their big eyes… I talked with them and asked them if I was leaving in a definite way and they answered me: “maybe yes”. Then I told myself “am I dreaming? The guides told me, “no, you are not dreaming, look at your family”: and in front of me were the dead persons of my family, there were also people I didn´t know and a lot of children. All of them were smiling and they were very happy to see me.
When I tried to get near them, they told me not to do it, because if I did, they would embrace me, and I would feel such an indescribable love, that it would already be impossible for me to go back.

It was then that appeared an enormous prairie, in which I saw tunnels, and below at the bottom of the tunnels there were people ascending and their heads looked very tiny, as though still far away.

When they finally passed near me, they saluted me and said they were friends of a friend´s family. Others were totally unknown, and it was ten years later that I met all of them for the first time on earth, as friends of my brother My brother also met them about ten years later after my experience.
I had the sensation of ascending.. I talked with some beings that told me I was in a vital transition, but I could ascend further still and talk with someone who would decide if I would come back to my body or not.

They said that the more I would ascend, there would be tremendous experiences and the possibility of coming back would diminish and I asked myself if I should go on or turn back.

Then there was a cream color place and then a shining red-orange tonality that was like an explosion. I entered a tube-like shape with

a very bright bluish fog and began traveling at such high speed, that I got sort of lost for a moment feeling that I was at very high altitude

and very far away from where I began my trip.. I saw the entities. Now that the speed slowed down,

I began a dialogue in which I relived whatever I wished to, and then all my life. A process of judging

myself began regarding the earth life. I questioned myself and wondered what I did right or wrong, but also adopted my own defense, and then

I wanted to know the reasons for everything. I became inquisitive. Suddenly I entered inside myself and noticed that I was in a conflict of understanding, of fearing (due to guilt), of overcoming and finally accepting all the occurrences and consciousness of each stage of my life, I

understood the methods and resources I had had at hand to be able to go through the artifices of this past life (I found myself in a lighter

blue light). I saw groups of beings who saluted me. I noticed that no one judged me, they were all kind, while I did judge myself.

I perfectly understood that what I had lived in this physical life was as important as it was unimportant

Then, identifying myself with my Diego ego in the earthly realm, I began to judge myself, to blame myself , and I took decisions accepting some things, and leaving aside others. because in the depth, there was no real guilt.

Nevertheless, they allowed me to understand all the contradictions, actions, situations in which I felt guilty, or non guilty. Their words were precise promoted my wellbeing, my peace, and when I felt a violent dialogue with myself, justifying myself or placing the guilt on someone, they said that “all that I felt was part of the game”, part of evolution, but that in the depth it didn´t have any importance Suddenly ,with a “scandal of voices”, I understood that “everything” is valid, everything is excusable, because my position in my life on earth, was just a very small one in an open game of evolution

Suddenly my guides were again beside me. with their big eyes, lucid and paying a lot of attention.
I again saw simultaneously all my life. It seemed to me very interesting to ask a lot of questions, and I saw with nostalgia some periods lived. I understood that most of our ambitions are ambivalent and not at all transcendental. .All my life appeared like a 3D movie before my sight, at an extremely high speed.
I asked the guides if the vision could be slowed down , so that I could talk about certain periods which I thought important. They answered that they were not as important as I was thinking. I told them I wanted to analyze each period lived, but they told me it was not necessary because they were not worthwhile. They said I knew very well how non transcendental they were. All was said very kindly. But I felt frustrated. They told me not to worry about my self analysis, because there was no judgment at all. So I understood I had to go on ascending.
The guides that accompanied me were kind, tactful and VERY COMPLIANT, but impenetrable, inscrutable, when certain questions were asked, and when they did, they answered with only a smile. The communication was by telepathy and they knew instantly what I was thinking. Their answers were essential, sparing, concise, precise and certain. They were very calm, unadorned, frugal and with a tender sense of humor.
Everything was understood without being said. After finishing this headache of simultaneous and knocked down ideas, that had obviously a cultural, legislative, and theological origin in my physical life, my guides answered me with only a word: “unimportant”, and they said it cheerfully.
I took a thankful rest in a quiet place, but at the same time kept ascending through a trans lucid tube like shape, yellowish and opaque I looked at the people who kept ascending, and saw they were symbolically throwing away all the objects they had on earth, as though they wouldn´t need them anymore. I found myself in a place, similar to an old train station full of beings and noise.
Far away I could see grayish beings that were received by other beings and helped them to leave their earth life.. People known to me said hello. I understood I was in the Threshold. Did the beings I knew on earth know where they were? I could ascend further away because I was to talk with a being and decide if I would go back I would ascend, and accumulate tremendous experiences but the probabilities of returning would diminish . I saw people descending, going back, and others ascending.
Some people were known to me for 20 earth years, but I hadn´t seen them again. I asked them what they were doing there, and they began to explain to me the types of illnesses they had had. I also met people unknown to me then, whom I met many years later in their bodies on the Earth realm. I asked one of the two persons I did know, what he was doing there, and he told me he had had a very serious health problem, and almost died, but the health problem had already been solved by the doctors. This is the reason why he was going back to his body.

Nevertheless, another friend who was a friend of my family for many years, was leaving the Earth realm in a definite way, so was I told. Then came some guides to take the friend who had been ill, back to Earth through a tubular shape in descent. I also observed other tubular shapes through which other souls were ascending, and among them, the lady known to me and my family whose body had died. I inquired if the lady could go back but they said her time was over and that she had definitely left her body. I felt the energy of the lady perturbed, because she was confused, since she did not know her body was dead, and I avoided meeting her. In that moment.
My guides smiled. Then there was a stage in which I had an instant of unconsciousness, but I immediately recovered, in a purifying sauna, and I soon noticed my consciousness was intact.. I asked myself if I was at risk and repented, asking not to remain definitely, because I had crossed the Threshold. This entrance was full of light, although still not so much. There was no possible going back, unless I thought about the love I felt for my beings on earth. I felt full of anguish and asked my guides about going back, but surprised I heard them say, it depended on higher planes.

. I had a strange feeling of marvel. A last hope for going back was left. I felt nostalgic and tender and had the sensation that they took my hand, and our spirits traveled at great speed which felt cold, like refreshing menthol, full of high pitched cosmic sounds, similar to a very modern music, clear, with pure echoes, deep cosmic echoes and a white light, almost metallic in which we flew. I felt a refreshing wind inside myself. In that moment other guides told my friend that they would guide him back to his body and they entered another tube to my right which I hadn´t previously seen.
Suddenly I stopped, because in the pathway I found the dead members of my family, even my father. There were exquisite aromas, all was warm, a foggy calm, a solid ground in which we stood firmly.
As a great surprise, a luminous, golden shape appeared. An androgynous being, shining as a sun, but not hurting my eyes. His borders were well drawn and he got near me, growing in size until he became a little bigger than myself .I felt marveled at the greatest beauty I had ever seen, a being that overflowed any ability to understand him, to the point that I almost lost my consciousness and wanted to become just that gracious , immense ,beautiful sensation. The being was full of compassion and my consolation.

He was a being of pure love, wisdom, light and energy I looked at the being face to face, in his powerful beauty and extraordinary energy, and it occurred to me that if I perceived His real shape, it would be equivalent to staying. The being surrounded me with an embrace, tender and noble, that is completely impossible to describe and that my earthly mind is incapable to translate.
I understood all, and thanked him, because everything was possible. In my infinite haughtiness, I was facing a being that completely transcended me, of whom I was a small part, and could integrate with his kindness. He extended his hand to me, I looked at him deeply thankful, for allowing me to freely decide, and thankful for giving me the most beautiful and marvelous experience ever, I lowered my head, ready to accept whatever I had to although I knew my earthly mind wanted to have more experiences, and accompany my family.
Again, I inhaled an exquisite and refreshing air, and the being, slowly lowered down his hand and with deep understanding went away.In that runaway ecstasy, with only a thread of consciousness left, I told my guides that I humbly thanked them for having allowed me to have such experience impossible to describe, and in a soft voice I told them that I still had some things to do on earth for my satisfaction.

They told me my life would keep on being as tortuous as it had always been, with some accomplishments, and that it would last for the time that it was planned to last, and since everything had been carefully planned before “incarnating “, very little could be changed., . . I accepted. Nevertheless, it was my eternal, universal consciousness, the one which allowed me to take the decision without terror. Once the decision was taken, we started to ascend at great speed without friction, without effort, as easy as when falling, but instead: ascending.

The guides appeared then again, curious and kind, and were ready to take me back .I jumped, and fell down at a horrendous speed with the sensation of a fire ball. I fell into the bottomless black void, until I entered an atmosphere which was very dense and in which the pressure was big, I kept falling at the highest speed imaginable and felt I would blast.
I could not stand the friction and the unbearable noise. At the moment of maximum friction and sound, I accepted that I would prefer to die, rather than have that sensation. When I could not bear it anymore, the guides told me to hold on, because I would not blast. Suddenly I fell down into a soft dimension similar to when one enters a warm swimming pool. I kept on descending and listening to beautiful symphonies of crystals and tiny bells, as well as sounds of clusters of singing which were heard far away.

The guides told me telepathically with luminous words, to relax because I would soon arrive. Suddenly I saw myself overflying my body again. A being appeared and told me I had to go into the body and softly pushed me into it.
I finally fell down with a dry and heavy fall, weighing tons, to see myself sitting on my bed with my eyes open and burning. I felt a deep pain near my heart, a pain almost unbearable, and a great difficulty to breathe. My body was rigid. My arms could not move. My feet were frozen and I could not move them either. I could only allow small threads of air enter my lungs, or else they would hurt. I felt dizzy and the pain in the chest was intense. I was unconscious for a moment, but when I managed to move my waist, I closed my eyes and lied down. I was still hearing internal and external noises and zooming.. The pain near my heart lasted with intensity for one hour and a half.
I managed to go to the bathroom, feeling as tired as ever in my life. I then went back to bed and slept for 12 hours. When I woke up, I remembered the guides told me how my wife, my daughter and myself would die. I saw my complete future and that of my daughter

I was told I would only remember fragments of it in certain moments. The guides told me my life would continue as tortuous as it had been, but with small satisfactions. It had to be like that because it was programmed that way, and the purpose, although painful, was very constructive
.I remembered the guides told me that my life would not be easy, but that the future difficulties could not be changed at all for me, but that it was a way to experience things, like an exercise, and that all would happen as it was programmed, because the purpose was that I could learn and grow more. Although I saw all my future, I shouldn`t remember it. I do remember when things are about to happen and they do exactly as seen before. There is no time to change anything, because the vision is seconds before things happen. I also remembered that I saw my mother would have a very long illness (Alzheimer) and asked what could be done to avoid it. They said nothing could be done and that I had to bear with patience the illness. Which together with other “bad” experiences, would lead me to my consciousness growth. I had been told that I would have a girl and at the same time my father would die. “

(My husband Diego had a small child cousin, whom he met during one of his NDE´s, but he showed himself to Diego as a 20 year old, with the physical aspect he would have when he would grow.. Diego didn´t recognize him when he said hello to him, and his cousin was the one who told him that he was his cousin and that he would look exactly that way when he would grow in the finite dimension, and that at that age, 20, he would die. (Diego saw him again in this finite dimension, many years later, and he looked identical, as he showed himself in the NDE.)



This is what Diego thinks of his NDE s. in essence


“My guides had a lucid consciousness and a wonderful sense of humor, like one expects from very wise beings.

Before I returned to my body, they looked at each other smilingly. I couldn’t interfere with any part of my future I intended to regulate.

They weren’t angels because this is a human concept. They were just wise beings of light.

With my bright vision of life, I have to adapt myself to unbelievable circumstances, and although I understand many things about the - evolution of the soul- which is why we come here, there is still a lot that I ignore. I saw my total life in all its detail physically, psychologically and philosophically, I saw not only my past but also all my future life till my death, but I would remember very little of it because I was told that if I remembered everything, then the emotional experience and the learning would be aborted if I remembered the future.

During the experience, I felt I had a volume-body with stable temperature of which emanated a luminous tone, like a sealed unit, totally secure in my intra-luminosity

I felt an eternity of warm tones in fa-major, as landscape for a caressing sound.

A tingling of bells, in clear and resplendent tonalities, seemingly like in Re or Sol.

There were intensely anise-flavored aromas, blown by a refreshing wind. Then a music in Si, perpetuated the sound of metallic triangles.

I was breathing an oxygenated air and remembered myself as a child getting drunk with the smell of orchids, jasmines , carnations and soft roses. What we pretend to be in world society is just an ethical convention and a convenience

which is fed by the mathematics of reason. These are a necessary landscape to permit the struggles of all colors to take place with the main purpose of the evolution of the spirit in the sense of greater wisdom, love and inner peace.

The immanent cosmic laws ARE by themselves. The totality (God if you will) is an absolute BEING-HERE and belongs within us permanently

Good and evil are totally relative to the learning lessons we extract. Why do some of us have to walk through the horrors of darkness?

Did we make darkness thicker? No, we just bring a humble but brilliant light, the light of vibrant consciousness.

We are predestined cosmic particles, in an induction to walk through a predetermined path of which we remain unconscious, fortunately for most. But we are always free to grow in our own consciousness. For no matter how predetermined the path is in this earth, the soul is free to learn or not the lessons, to evolve, to grow or not, to be wiser, to forgive, to love. Because these are the only purposes of the ALL CONSCIOUSNESS to whom we belong. We will not be judged, for we only judge ourselves which is the greatest growth.

Each of our decisions on earth , changes our consciousness-spirit-soul and each one of these changes will be meditated by the Total One.

I feel lucid and satisfied of the grace I was given to stay or leave this earth with no implication of guilt, and I also enjoy to be bathed in this earth s tender pollen.

The Being of Light, is the most exquisite core of harmony and delight, allowing us to rest in our own forgetfulness. He is the fountain of our final alloy

The limited reasonable analysis made by our brain and our earth conventions, cannot explain or define what we really feel near the Being of Light. His wisdom and Love are of such dimension, that the great limitations of our physical brain cannot allow us to grasp it , or explain it, when we return to the body, because limitation cannot define the immense But when we are in that dimension, we do understand.

We can project our upbringing and say the Being of Light is Jesus, Moses, Mohammed, Buddha etc..

I only saw him as the most marvelous Being of Light. No names. My guides had a lucid consciousness and a wonderful sense of humor, like one expects from very wise beings.

Before I returned to my body, they looked at each other smilingly. I couldn’t interfere with any part of my future I intended to regulate.

Regarding past lives, I vaguely feel I lived among the musical waves of Bach and all that surrounded him and also in the Roman times of Octavius Augustus.

With my bright vision of life, I have to adapt myself to unbelievable circumstances, and although I understand many things about the - evolution of the soul- which is why we come here, there is still a lot that I ignore.


I feel I have been here mainly to learn, grow, love, even in the midst of tragedy and struggles,
from consciousness, science, from Democritus till the chromatic clear mindedness of Bergson
and beyond.

Consciousness evolution is also due to a disposition in reduction of absurd-chaos as a continuous mechanism of it. We will enjoy contradicting each other while we perpetuate the ellipse of infinity and eternity, under and above us.

We just bring a humble but brilliant light, the light of vibrant consciousness.

In presence of the light or Divine Providence, face to face,one feels exultation, celebration, revelation, bliss, elation, jubilation, glory, and on and on…… for eternity”
 
#5
These two quotes do not contradict each other:

“I could feel my attachment to the scene receding as I began to realize that everything was perfect and going according to plan in the greater tapestry.”
Anita Moorjani, Dying to Be Me: My Journey from Cancer, to Near Death, to True Healing


“Since the tapestry of all time has already been woven, everything I could ever want to happen in my life already exists in that infinite, nonphysical plane. My only task is to expand my earthly self enough to let it into this realm. So if there's something I desire, the idea isn't to go out and get it, but to expand my own consciousness to allow universal energy to bring it into my reality here.”
― Anita Moorjani, Dying to Be Me: My Journey from Cancer, to Near Death, to True Healing

Yes, there is a plan. Yes, your choices affect your future.

For example, something might happen to a person that is part of a plan. How they react to that event and therefore what happens next, could be a result of their own choice.
You can find agreement for both these truths in many writings by evidential mediums and accounts of NDEs. I don't see them as mutually exclusive. Some aspects of life are planned that you can't avoid while other aspects are the result of our thoughts and actions.

My own experiences also tell me that both are true. At a very young age I had intuitions about how my life would unfold which I have seen verified one after another as I have gone through life. But I also had experiences that showed that I could influence events in spooky ways. When someone asked how you can know if a coincidence is due to chance or to the workings of the law of attraction, I replied:

You know when you ask people why they broke rules to help you when you never asked them to, and they get glassy eyed and say , "I don't know" . Or when you experience synchronicities that cannot be explained by chance that help you toward you goal. Or you get intuitions to go somewhere you would not normally go, and when you get there, something important happens while you are there. Or people and organizations who are in your way have a habit of experiencing really bad luck. Personally I don't like to use the law of attraction because it can have unforeseen karmic consequences. I look at it sort of like black magic. It works too well. In my experience you have to really, really know what you are doing to use it for good, and I don't think I know what I am doing well enough. Besides you have to be careful what you wish for.

But that is just my personal view about my own use of the law. It doesn't necessarily apply to everyone. I think there could be people who have a certain life plan and using the law of attraction is part of it, and their intuition may guide them in its proper use. Different people are here for different reasons. My path seems to be more about "go with the flow" but there are others who are here to create their reality.
 
#6
Interesting. I found the language a bit flowery which put me off a bit - infinite this and that etc.
Remember that consciousness is not a cold mathematical robot. It is subjective, what you live, what you are. Each one creates the flowers he loves to translate his experience when it is difficult to describe: metaphors.

You will never get 100% objectivity in anything, not even in science. You just have to accept uncertainty. Medical science is irreproducible in 70% of cases. Excellent research is done with a group of people, then another team tries to repeat the research and they get the opposite result.

The level of planning might not be the same for everyone.

What Jim says is interesting in the sense that the best way one can live life is accepting that some things are unchangeable, while others can be changed. So the best attitude is a balanced one.
 
#7
Remember that consciousness is not a cold mathematical robot. It is subjective, what you live, what you are. Each one creates the flowers he loves to translate his experience when it is difficult to describe: metaphors.

You will never get 100% objectivity in anything, not even in science. You just have to accept uncertainty. Medical science is irreproducible in 70% of cases. Excellent research is done with a group of people, then another team tries to repeat the research and they get the opposite result.

The level of planning might not be the same for everyone.

What Jim says is interesting in the sense that the best way one can live life is accepting that some things are unchangeable, while others can be changed. So the best attitude is a balanced one.
I can certainly accept the experience was ineffable. It's his choice of words that put me off. It's very difficult to convey experiences like that but overly flowery language detracts from it and makes it sound embellished to me. Just my opinion.

I don't understand what 'cold Mathematical robot' has to do with it.

It's interesting but not evidential in its current form.
 
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#12
Ok well I'm not interested in entertaining you or in your primary interest so I'll 'pass' on that invitation. :)
That leaves you with a dilemma. I'm the only one on the entire forum who has shown interest in "your story", about what you have found to be evidential, about what evidentiality means to you in that context, yet you refuse to address my albeit somewhat limited focus on it. Perhaps someone else will come along and exhibit highly enthusiastic interest and then you'll be forced to find another excuse, good luck with that.
 
#13
That leaves you with a dilemma. I'm the only one on the entire forum who has shown interest in "your story", about what you have found to be evidential, about what evidentiality means to you in that context, yet you refuse to address my albeit somewhat limited focus on it. Perhaps someone else will come along and exhibit highly enthusiastic interest and then you'll be forced to find another excuse, good luck with that.
I would refer you to Sam Allerdyce who sums it up quite nicely.
 
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