Near Death in the ICU - Laurin Bellg, MD

#1


I thought "Near Death in the ICU" was a really nicely written book, with some interesting, and some really lovely patients experiences recalled during Laurin's 20 year career as an ICU doctor.

Not hugely in depth, it is never-the-less something I'm very pleased to have added to my collection... and it's getting bought for a few presents too... it brought me to tears more than once.

Laurin's simple and logical message is that health care workers, and families should bear witness to their patients and loved ones experiences... and so they should... it's the right thing to do.

http://www.laurinbellg.com
 
#2


I thought "Near Death in the ICU" was a really nicely written book, with some interesting, and some really lovely patients experiences recalled during Laurin's 20 year career as an ICU doctor.

Not hugely in depth, it is never-the-less something I'm very pleased to have added to my collection... and it's getting bought for a few presents too... it brought me to tears more than once.

Laurin's simple and logical message is that health care workers, and families should bear witness to their patients and loved ones experiences... and so they should... it's the right thing to do.

http://www.laurinbellg.com
I was going to buy this and I forgot about it for some reason. Is it a Ray Moody type book or a more factual Michael Sabom effort. I mean I know it isn't a study, of course.
 
#3
I was going to buy this and I forgot about it for some reason. Is it a Ray Moody type book or a more factual Michael Sabom effort. I mean I know it isn't a study, of course.
Cor... it's really hard to say, it's more emotional (nicely written) with quite a few experiences, and more practical from a nursing/relatives type message. But it doesn't explore NDE theories in much detail. It just wants you to accept they are very real, not explained, and to be taken seriously.

I relished the new experiences... and Lauren's attitude. It's a completely different book, but I found it much easier to read than Penny's. That said, penny has s new book coming out, that I have on order too.
 
#4
I'm actually reading it now, Max, (Kindle) I've got to the story about Howard the bloke who had the cardiac arrest with OBE. If that's a true story it's impressive, because the room he saw (above the ICU) , the training simulation ward would not have been accessible to him.
 
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#5
I'm actually reading it now, Max, (Kindle) I've got to the story about Howard the bloke who had the cardiac arrest with OBE. If that's a true story it's remarkable, because the room he saw (above the ICU) , the training simulation ward would not have accessible to him.
Blazing through it Tim! There are some interesting experiences recounted in Lauren's book...
 
#6
I think in the intro she appears to say some of them are composites:

In some cases, I’ve combined accounts where events were similar in order to further limit personal identifiers and preserve anonymity, yet still reveal the heart of these often-transformative moments.
 
#7
I think in the intro she appears to say some of them are composites:

In some cases, I’ve combined accounts where events were similar in order to further limit personal identifiers and preserve anonymity, yet still reveal the heart of these often-transformative moments.
Yes, I saw that Obiwan, thanks. It's still out of the odinary (the stories are) though. I'm a bit suspicious now but I don't know why, they're much the same as Moody's, Sabom's, Sartori's etc although not collected prospectively.
 
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#8
I think in the intro she appears to say some of them are composites:

In some cases, I’ve combined accounts where events were similar in order to further limit personal identifiers and preserve anonymity, yet still reveal the heart of these often-transformative moments.
Hmmm... That puts a different light on things. I didn't notice that, so thanks for pointing it out. I don't want to be reading works of NDE fiction.

I'm guessing that Lauren can't accurately remember which experience is which, and they've all got a bit muddled up. So what we've got is Lauren's general take on things 'she's' experienced over 20 years, but they are not accurate.
 
#10
I think in the intro she appears to say some of them are composites:

In some cases, I’ve combined accounts where events were similar in order to further limit personal identifiers and preserve anonymity, yet still reveal the heart of these often-transformative moments.
I just emailed the author for clarification and elaboration on that statement. I probably won't hear back as it was just the "contact me" section of her website.

But anyways... Not to redirect the thread but along similar lines... Has anyone read the latest book by the now deceased, Wayne Dyer "Memories of Heaven: Children's Astounding Recollections of the Time before They Came to Earth." It's sitting in my kindle library waiting to be read..any reviews?
 
#11
Here is a slightly fuller "picture"

The stories I recount have been entrusted to me by patients, acquaintances and friends over the past two decades. In many instances, they are also about how their lives were transformed. In an intentional act of vulnerability, I’ve also included a few of my own. As individuals, caregivers and family members, I maintain that we should not discount these experiences any more than we should dismiss a dream or any personally significant event in a person’s life, however strange it may seem to us. The core of each story I share here is true to what has been related to me. However, where appropriate, names and details have been altered to protect the privacy of those who have so generously allowed me to write about them.

Likewise, the dialogue that I’ve written may not be word-for-word, but it remains authentic to the essence of the conversations I’ve had with these patients and their families, as documented in my numerous personal journals over the years. Wherever I have reported connections between a patient’s near-death experience and surrounding events and circumstances, I have been careful to make those details as accurate as possible. In some cases, I’ve combined accounts where events were similar in
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I don't think she can be called out on anything, really. It was obviously never a "methodical" study. Just stories that's she's heard from her patients (mainly) over the years. Lloyd Rudy had 50 of these (he said). Would it matter if she had accurate detailed records and witnesses ? Maybe but did it matter that Penny Sartori wrote down patient 10's experience within a few hours, no it didn't.

Anyone who doesn't believe that this phenomenon is common only needs to go and mingle with a few cardiac arrest patients. A few years ago I was in a hospital waiting room and I somehow got talking to a bloke of about 65 or so with his wife. I've forgotten how the conversation got round to this subject but I distinctly remember what he said after he'd told me he'd had a cardiac arrest...."I saw myself below" and then his wife started crying.
 
#12
Yes, me too now, these look like Lauren's general experience from 20 years of practice, and not her patients actual experiences.
I think they are indicative broadly of what occurred though. Once you're out of the body and retrieving veridical information, that's pretty much all you need as a proponent.
 
#13
This one is interesting but It would be nice to know more :


“Well, on the day I had my heart attack,” said Thomas, “everyone was over at our house for a barbeque – the kids, the grandkids. Everybody. I was chasing the little ones around and apparently collapsed, although I didn’t feel a thing. Strangely, what I remember was laughing and running around after them and then suddenly hearing everything go quiet. Sounds were very far off, like a distant echo. I remember losing sight of the grandkids, but I was still running around the yard looking for them, wondering where they had gone. “I circled on around the house and eventually came back to where folks were hanging out in the backyard on the patio.

I saw that everyone was gathered around, looking at something on the ground. I saw my wife crying, and the grandkids seemed startled by something. I wondered what was going on. I called out, ‘Hey, what’s happening?’ but no one responded. It was like they didn’t even hear me. I walked closer and realized that they were leaning over a person on the ground, and my son-in-law was doing CPR. He’s an emergency medical technician, you know, working on an ambulance, so he knew how to do that. I walked closer and realized that the person lying on the ground was me. My son-in-law was doing CPR on me! “I can’t tell you how strange that was, looking at a person on the ground that I recognized as myself.

Apparently when I collapsed and my heart stopped, I just kept on running right out of my body! I could not wrap my head around it, especially when I was trying to talk to them, and no one answered me. I thought that I must be dead. For being dead, though, it sure felt so real to be standing there. I could hear and see everything so clearly. In fact, I felt very much like myself in every way. I just could not pull together an explanation for the weird experience I was having. I was standing there, watching my family gathered around a body that I knew to physically be me, but my awareness – or whatever it was – felt more like the real me than what I was witnessing. It was pretty strange. “Not knowing what else to do, I just stood there watching: watching my wife and daughter crying, and watching my grandkids staring and looking so afraid. That’s when I saw Lexy, my two-year-old granddaughter, come toddling toward me with her hands stretched out, babbling, ‘Papa, Papa!’ That’s what she calls me. She was looking right at me and I knew she could see me. Why else would she be walking toward me calling my name?

I was really curious about that. “She could see me, but she seemed to be the only one. I knelt down as she came toward me and she was almost there when her dad, my son, scooped her up. Clearly, my son didn’t see me. I still wonder what would have happened if she had actually made her way to me. Would she have been able to touch me, or would her hand have gone right through? I don’t know how long I stood there, but the next thing I knew, I was waking up in a hospital room a day or so later. It left me thinking I might be crazy, to be honest.” I know what it’s like to doubt your own experience, so, I made a point of affirming him. “I don’t think


Bellg MD, Laurin (2015-12-10). Near Death in the ICU: Stories from Patients Near Death and Why We Should Listen to Them (pp. 158-159). Sloan Press. Kindle Edition.
 
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#15
If someone can ease my mind about the copyright protocols, I'll stick up some more . I'm buying the book as well but I don't want to cause her to lose any money.
I'm not an expert but in my work I've had to be briefed on what I can reproduce in my jurisdiction. It is fair to copy in a few paragraphs (along with a citation). Publishing an entire section, or chapter would be breaching copyright. I think what you have up there is probably ok, and you did cite it. Doing a number of chunks like that though might push it, technically. Though in practice my guess is the publisher will view it as welcome free publicity.

The bigger concern from a copyright issue on this site is when people post the complete text of an article. It is much better to past in a paragraph or two and put a link to the article.

I'll report my post to bring this PSA to the attention of the mods.
 
#16
I'm not an expert but in my work I've had to be briefed on what I can reproduce in my jurisdiction. It is fair to copy in a few paragraphs (along with a citation). Publishing an entire section, or chapter would be breaching copyright. I think what you have up there is probably ok, and you did cite it. Doing a number of chunks like that though might push it, technically. Though in practice my guess is the publisher will view it as welcome free publicity.

The bigger concern from a copyright issue on this site is when people post the complete text of an article. It is much better to past in a paragraph or two and put a link to the article.

I'll report my post to bring this PSA to the attention of the mods.
Thanks, that's helpful, Arouet.
 
#17
I haven't seen it, no Bill. BTW I tried to contact Laurin a few weeks ago and she hasn't replied but then again I wasn't really expecting her to. Too busy I would guess.
I was given permission from the author to share this part of her email back to me, which she so kindly wrote back in about 12 hours of my initial email. I will copy and paste my email below and the permission she allowed me to share from her email response:

My email:

Hi Laurin, I really enjoyed reading your book. I bought the kindle version and have recommended it already to several others. I was very disappointed that I was not able to see you when you came to speak at IANDS at Unity of Mesa in Mesa, AZ the other day. I would have asked the question in person that I am posing now, and it has to do with this from your book: "In some cases, I’ve combined accounts where events were similar in order to further limit personal identifiers and preserve anonymity, yet still reveal the heart of these often-transformative moments." That message has left me confused. Honestly I didn't even catch it or notice it until it was pointed out in a forum in which individuals were commenting on your book and recommending it because of how good it was. Can you clarify that statement please. It makes me wonder about the genuiness or accuracy of some of the accounts. And by the way U don't have to answer this but it sounds like the individual that u were talking about who believes in NDE's but is dogmatic in their beliefs is probably PMH Atwater. She seems to be big into the after effects and I can visualize her saying that. Anyways.. Thank you again for an awesome book and if you ever head out to AZ again on a lecture circuit, I'll be sure to make sure that I don't miss it!! Thanks Again, Bill

Her response :

Hello Bill,

Thank you so much for taking the time to reach out. My response below may be something you wish to cut and paste to the forum, if you like. I’ve italicized it so that it is clear what is separate from my personal response to you.


When writing about real people, it is not uncommon to be asked to conceal their identity, especially if they are uncomfortable with sharing their story, as many NDErs are - unfortunately. Sometimes that is possible just with a name change, sometimes it is not. Some of the physical circumstances were merged in two separate cases in my book at the request of the experiencers before they were comfortable giving permission for me to print them. In each of these two cases (four patients), the circumstances of their medical situation and the features of their NDEs were so very close that they were much more comfortable with a combined story. Everything that was represented was an accurate representation of what they shared with me. But remember, with NDEs, we are still talking about reporting on a subjective experience that we cannot film or record in anyway at this time in our evolution. All of us are taking a leap of faith (and respect) to choose to believe someone who has the courage to share. Actually, this highlights the whole theme of the book - choosing to honor someone’s experience for what they share - their reality; their truth. With any such approach to something an author is presenting, there has to be a disclaimer. Otherwise, it is false representation. This will hopefully explain this literary convention a little further. And, it is just that - a literary convention.
Actually, the benefit for the four experiencers themselves was surprising. In combining stories, they found each other and were able to provide a support and level of acceptance as an experiencer of something so similar that I, by merely listening and documenting, would never have been able to do. I don’t think this makes the experiences any less genuine or accurate - especially when I am honoring the requests of the very people who so generously allowed me to share them in my book in the first place. This concept may be uncomfortable for some readers - and I can’t help that much although I understand - but I remained true to the people who’s stories I shared and how I was able to share them in ways that were acceptable to them. This book would have been missing two incredible (and important!) examples of the impact of dismissal of a personal experience had I not been allowed to include them. In order to do that I had to work with the four patients very closely so that they felt their truth was honored and their experience represented in a way that was comfortable for them. It is unfortunate that they felt that unsafe, but that is the reality of our current societal environment.
There were some stories I would have LOVED to have included in this book, but the level of discomfort of the experiencer was such that they were willing to share it with me but did not want it in print. Let us be grateful to those who were willing to share in whatever way they were comfortable with - even if it was sharing their experience with someone else’s very similar to their own.
 
#18
I was given permission from the author to share this part of her email back to me, which she so kindly wrote back in about 12 hours of my initial email. I will copy and paste my email below and the permission she allowed me to share from her email response:

My email:

Hi Laurin, I really enjoyed reading your book. I bought the kindle version and have recommended it already to several others. I was very disappointed that I was not able to see you when you came to speak at IANDS at Unity of Mesa in Mesa, AZ the other day. I would have asked the question in person that I am posing now, and it has to do with this from your book: "In some cases, I’ve combined accounts where events were similar in order to further limit personal identifiers and preserve anonymity, yet still reveal the heart of these often-transformative moments." That message has left me confused. Honestly I didn't even catch it or notice it until it was pointed out in a forum in which individuals were commenting on your book and recommending it because of how good it was. Can you clarify that statement please. It makes me wonder about the genuiness or accuracy of some of the accounts. And by the way U don't have to answer this but it sounds like the individual that u were talking about who believes in NDE's but is dogmatic in their beliefs is probably PMH Atwater. She seems to be big into the after effects and I can visualize her saying that. Anyways.. Thank you again for an awesome book and if you ever head out to AZ again on a lecture circuit, I'll be sure to make sure that I don't miss it!! Thanks Again, Bill

Her response :

Hello Bill,

Thank you so much for taking the time to reach out. My response below may be something you wish to cut and paste to the forum, if you like. I’ve italicized it so that it is clear what is separate from my personal response to you.


When writing about real people, it is not uncommon to be asked to conceal their identity, especially if they are uncomfortable with sharing their story, as many NDErs are - unfortunately. Sometimes that is possible just with a name change, sometimes it is not. Some of the physical circumstances were merged in two separate cases in my book at the request of the experiencers before they were comfortable giving permission for me to print them. In each of these two cases (four patients), the circumstances of their medical situation and the features of their NDEs were so very close that they were much more comfortable with a combined story. Everything that was represented was an accurate representation of what they shared with me. But remember, with NDEs, we are still talking about reporting on a subjective experience that we cannot film or record in anyway at this time in our evolution. All of us are taking a leap of faith (and respect) to choose to believe someone who has the courage to share. Actually, this highlights the whole theme of the book - choosing to honor someone’s experience for what they share - their reality; their truth. With any such approach to something an author is presenting, there has to be a disclaimer. Otherwise, it is false representation. This will hopefully explain this literary convention a little further. And, it is just that - a literary convention.
Actually, the benefit for the four experiencers themselves was surprising. In combining stories, they found each other and were able to provide a support and level of acceptance as an experiencer of something so similar that I, by merely listening and documenting, would never have been able to do. I don’t think this makes the experiences any less genuine or accurate - especially when I am honoring the requests of the very people who so generously allowed me to share them in my book in the first place. This concept may be uncomfortable for some readers - and I can’t help that much although I understand - but I remained true to the people who’s stories I shared and how I was able to share them in ways that were acceptable to them. This book would have been missing two incredible (and important!) examples of the impact of dismissal of a personal experience had I not been allowed to include them. In order to do that I had to work with the four patients very closely so that they felt their truth was honored and their experience represented in a way that was comfortable for them. It is unfortunate that they felt that unsafe, but that is the reality of our current societal environment.
There were some stories I would have LOVED to have included in this book, but the level of discomfort of the experiencer was such that they were willing to share it with me but did not want it in print. Let us be grateful to those who were willing to share in whatever way they were comfortable with - even if it was sharing their experience with someone else’s very similar to their own.

That's great, Bill, thanks for letting us see that. I would love to know more but it's not possible for reasons she gave. If those experiences occurred like that (and I have no good reason to suspect they didn't) then what can you say. I just read through my previous posts and I noticed I'd used the word "remarkable" no less than 4 times. I need to chill out.

BTW I thought it was Phyllis Atwater too.
 
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#19
I've just finished reading this. I have to say I think it is an excellent book. Firstly, I think it is very well written. Secondly, it speaks with the authority of an experienced medical practitioner based on both her direct personal experiences and those who have reported their experiences to her very soon after they occurred in most cases. The experiences reported do not seem to me to have been embellished by her or made to be anything other than what was reported to the author. It is very matter-of-fact. There is no hype.

It isn't meant to be a science book. There are no fancy statistics in it. We do of course, have to rely on the honesty of the author, however there is nothing in it that suggests to me any sense that it isn't an honest report. The elements of the book that talk about the importance of listening with an open mind and not judging the experiences of others is very important I think.

I'd certainly recommend it to anyone with an open mind or to those who have had, or know people who have had similar experiences, or to those supporting seriously ill friends or relatives.
 
#20
I've just finished reading this. I have to say I think it is an excellent book. Firstly, I think it is very well written. Secondly, it speaks with the authority of an experienced medical practitioner based on both her direct personal experiences and those who have reported their experiences to her very soon after they occurred in most cases. The experiences reported do not seem to me to have been embellished by her or made to be anything other than what was reported to the author. It is very matter-of-fact. There is no hype.

It isn't meant to be a science book. There are no fancy statistics in it. We do of course, have to rely on the honesty of the author, however there is nothing in it that suggests to me any sense that it isn't an honest report. The elements of the book that talk about the importance of listening with an open mind and not judging the experiences of others is very important I think.

I'd certainly recommend it to anyone with an open mind or to those who have had, or know people who have had similar experiences, or to those supporting seriously ill friends or relatives.
Good review!
 
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