New Radin's double-slit experiment presentation

#3
So... here's the thing: I think I agree with the comments by Chalmers at the end of the talk. Radin's studies with the double-slit apparatus seems to provide more evidence in favor of PK but I don't see why it would make a specific QT interpretation more likely.

Afterall the experiment shows that meditators have a small effect on the particle distribution... but particles seem to do "their thing" with or without us putting our minds to it. Would Radin's results clash in the many worlds interpretation? Doesn't seem like it. It would still be evidence of PK under a different conception of the quantum world.

Or maybe it's just me not seeing the whole picture... :) What do you think?
 
#5
So... here's the thing: I think I agree with the comments by Chalmers at the end of the talk. Radin's studies with the double-slit apparatus seems to provide more evidence in favor of PK but I don't see why it would make a specific QT interpretation more likely.

Afterall the experiment shows that meditators have a small effect on the particle distribution... but particles seem to do "their thing" with or without us putting our minds to it. Would Radin's results clash in the many worlds interpretation? Doesn't seem like it. It would still be evidence of PK under a different conception of the quantum world.

Or maybe it's just me not seeing the whole picture... :) What do you think?
Like two other studies I've looked at of his, I think they are just a way of providing media exposure for the meditation-type courses which are run at the centre he works for.

I don't think there is anything in these papers that wouldn't just disappear with a properly designed experiment.

It just helps to get people to sign up for residential courses, and is just mumbo jumbo I'm afraid, dressed up to look scientifically meaningful to the general public.

Nothing wrong with the papers, it's just that they are actually meaningless.
 
#6
Afterall the experiment shows that meditators have a small effect on the particle distribution... but particles seem to do "their thing" with or without us putting our minds to it. Would Radin's results clash in the many worlds interpretation? Doesn't seem like it. It would still be evidence of PK under a different conception of the quantum world.
Kinda think of it, Radin's results might be really interesting under Many Worlds. That basically says anything that can happen, does happen. All the projections of the state vector, i.e. all possible outcomes of measurement, come to fruition somewhere, in some "parallel" universe. But, if a mind is tweaking results, or skewing results, in this world, seems like that could mean it would be tweaking results in all possible worlds. Evidence for mind being non-local not just to this world, but all possible worlds?!?

Lots of subtleties, so who knows if it really means that, but cool thought at least :)
 
S

Sciborg_S_Patel

#8
Like two other studies I've looked at of his, I think they are just a way of providing media exposure for the meditation-type courses which are run at the centre he works for.

I don't think there is anything in these papers that wouldn't just disappear with a properly designed experiment.

It just helps to get people to sign up for residential courses, and is just mumbo jumbo I'm afraid, dressed up to look scientifically meaningful to the general public.

Nothing wrong with the papers, it's just that they are actually meaningless.
I'm not as skeptical as you, though I am also doubtful these minute effects are convincing of anything but necessity of further research with better equipment.
 
#10
I'm not as skeptical as you, though I am also doubtful these minute effects are convincing of anything but necessity of further research with better equipment.
It's just deliberate promotion using meaningless papers that say nothing, but look the part to the general public. I stress the 'deliberate' part. That first paper of his I looked at in detail, ran the many hours of baseline testing of the equipment (laptop & RNG) off the mains, but in the field measurements with meditators was conducted using the laptop's battery (not mains). Which caused the effect they measured. But after you've spent a bit of time investigating RNG's, you find out these devices are utterly incapable of having any meaning - in the way that they claim.

These double-slit papers use exactly the same technique... loads of hours of baseline testing... a meaningless result due to heat, vibration, power fluctuations etc. (deliberately designed into the experiments in my view), then later as you understand more about QM you realise the experiments were utterly incapable of having any meaning in they way they claim.

Although he adds the truthful caveats at the end of his papers, which acknowledge that the measured effects may be due to other causes than meditators etc... so I can't accuse him of outright fraud... I never-the-less think these experiments are nothing more than stunts... it's that or they are so biased that they really believe what they are peddling.

I doubt it though, I think they deliberately use hard-to-understand equipment that is suseptible to normal classic effects, within the experiments in a way that produces results that they claim are significant (but are meaningless) to promote themselves to the public.
 
S

Sciborg_S_Patel

#11
I doubt it though, I think they deliberately use hard-to-understand equipment that is suseptible to normal classic effects, within the experiments in a way that produces results that they claim are significant (but are meaningless) to promote themselves to the public.
I'd have to discuss it with Radin himself before I could say it was deliberate.

Regardless I just don't see this sort of thing as being very convincing, partly for the reasons you mention and partly on the minuscule results themselves.
 
#12
I'd have to discuss it with Radin himself before I could say it was deliberate.

Regardless I just don't see this sort of thing as being very convincing, partly for the reasons you mention and partly on the minuscule results themselves.
Well I doubt he's gonna admit it... Lol... it would be interesting to look back and see if this model has been used in the past... using new (hard to understand) equipment/discoveries to make claims to the public that are meaningless... to make a living... Lol
 
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