People who have been dead for hours the revived

#1
In erasing death,Parnia talks of a woman who was found dead in Japan, and later revived. She didn't apparently report anything, to me this is perhaps a very compelling case for brain=mind. She was dead for hours, reported nothing, revived. Which I find rather conclusive.
 
#2
But that's just cherry-picking. If you want to understand the topic, you need to consider more than a single example. Drawing a conclusion from a single example is certainly going further than is warranted.

It is already known from many studies that a person may not always remember anything of what occurred during a period of cardiac arrest. That doesn't imply that nothing happened, any more than not remembering dreaming after ordinary sleep means a person didn't dream.
 
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#3
But that's just cherry-picking. If you want to understand the topic, you need to consider more than a single example. Drawing a conclusion from a single example is certainly going further than is warranted.
Well, there are people who's hearts are stopped for surgery, they're cooled down, report nothing. Pam Reynolds experience was not when she was cooled down with no brain activity, she was anaesthetised.
 
#5
In erasing death,Parnia talks of a woman who was found dead in Japan, and later revived. She didn't apparently report anything, to me this is perhaps a very compelling case for brain=mind. She was dead for hours, reported nothing, revived. Which I find rather conclusive.
Using a oft-used materialist argument, if she came back, she wasn't dead. ;)
 
#6
Using a oft-used materialist argument, if she came back, she wasn't dead. ;)
It wouldn't matter if she did have an experience. Any report that could be related to cultural divinity would be dismissed as cultural influence, and any report that was culture-agnostic would be dismissed as biological. There isn't a goal post to begin with :eek:
 
#8
This thread is silly. A case normally is never conclusive. No matter the cases of people being near death does not remember anything, but the cases that matter are cases of people being near death remember something, because the former may be due to no experience or no experience is remembered, but in the second there are cases involving ordered experiences while there is not enough brain activity that may cause it or veridical information that could not be obtained by the known senses, inference or luck, which is pretty conclusive that the mind can not be brain activity.
 
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Sciborg_S_Patel

#10
There's actually multiple conclusions one could make:

- The woman didn't experience anything, because there is nothing to experience.

- The woman didn't remember her experience, but she had one in the same way we don't always recall our dreams. Or, as another example, consider the hypothesis some have issued that we experience terrible agony under anesthesia but we just don't remember it afterward.

- The woman is lying about not remembering because her experience wasn't pleasant.


That list could go on and on. It's the problem with taking a single case that doesn't have veridical information. The issue being that every case with veridical info seems to be contentious, whether that's do [due] to denial or wishful thinking or whatever slant people want to put on the subject.

Having only taken a cursory look at NDEs & reincarnation research, I would say that if nothing else you have a phenomenon that is worthy of further study. My own experiences of "high strangeness" suggest death is not the end, but I didn't actually go anywhere. And maybe all my weird experiences were hallucination or what not so I can't offer any definitive declaration on the matter.
 
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#11
That list could go on and on. It's the problem with taking a single case that doesn't have veridical information. The issue being that every case with veridical info seems to be contentious, whether that's do to denial or wishful thinking or whatever slant people want to put on the subject.
I don't accept that every such case is actually contentious, only that certain groups or individuals would like it to appear that way.
 
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Sciborg_S_Patel

#12
I don't accept that every such case is actually contentious, only that certain groups or individuals would like it to appear that way.
I would agree, intuitively, but I've not sat down and looked through the varied papers. As a Creative Agnostic*, I think it comes down to finding a truth you can live.

Years ago I went to see a presentation about why one should believe the Gospels to be factual accounts and why they showed that Christ had risen. During the Q&A, I asked the presenter how to square this with proof of other religions and how we could know the true path. He replied you would know and decide by how you chose to live your life, which I thought was the most honest and graceful answer one could give.

*I know I link to the same things multiple times, but I figure it makes it easier for any newbie coming into the conversation. Not trying to name drop or proselytize here. :)
 
#13
There's actually multiple conclusions one could make:

- The woman didn't experience anything, because there is nothing to experience.

- The woman didn't remember her experience, but she had one in the same way we don't always recall our dreams. Or, as another example, consider the hypothesis some have issued that we experience terrible agony under anesthesia but we just don't remember it afterward.

- The woman is lying about not remembering because her experience wasn't pleasant.


That list could go on and on. It's the problem with taking a single case that doesn't have veridical information. The issue being that every case with veridical info seems to be contentious, whether that's do [due] to denial or wishful thinking or whatever slant people want to put on the subject.

Having only taken a cursory look at NDEs & reincarnation research, I would say that if nothing else you have a phenomenon that is worthy of further study. My own experiences of "high strangeness" suggest death is not the end, but I didn't actually go anywhere. And maybe all my weird experiences were hallucination or what not so I can't offer any definitive declaration on the matter.
Parnia has said that people could soon be revived 24 hours later, again, that suggests to me mind=brain. But then again, ugh, the uncertainty is annoying as fuck
 
#14
Parnia has said that people could soon be revived 24 hours later, again, that suggests to me mind=brain. But then again, ugh, the uncertainty is annoying as fuck
Ian Stevenson et al have documented cases that are almost indistinguishable from possession in addition to "the usual" incarnation mechanisms. It's weird complicated shit. Get over the uncertainty and focus on the amazing gift of being conscious at all.

Cheers,
Bill
 
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Sciborg_S_Patel

#15
Ian Stevenson et al have documented cases that are almost indistinguishable from possession in addition to "the usual" incarnation mechanisms. It's weird complicated shit. Get over the uncertainty and focus on the amazing gift of being conscious at all.

Cheers,
Bill
"…We only rise from sleep,
we come only to dream,
it is not true, it is not true,
that we come on earth to live.
As an herb in springtime,
so is our nature.
Our hearts give birth, make sprout
the flowers of our flesh.
Some open their corollas,
then they become dry…”

Tochihuitzin Coyolchiuhqui. Méxica poet, 15th Century.
 
#16
That's completely different. Sorry
Nope.

In both your and my case, n = 1, and:
  • A single person experienced an event.
  • The event experienced has a chance of resulting in a secondary experience.
  • The secondary event was not reported.
  • A conclusion is made that the secondary experience doesn't exist.
We only accept dreaming as fact because virtually everybody does it, and can easily call BS to the above. Now imagine if dreaming happened in less than one percent of the population.
 
#17
Nope.

In both your and my case, n = 1, and:
  • A single person experienced an event.
  • The event experienced has a chance of resulting in a secondary experience.
  • The secondary event was not reported.
  • A conclusion is made that the secondary experience doesn't exist.
We only accept dreaming as fact because virtually everybody does it, and can easily call BS to the above. Now imagine if dreaming happened in less than one percent of the population.
Again, the salient point here is that there is still an operating brain regarding dreaming and sleep.
 
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