People Who Hear Voices

You know, after giving it some thought, I wonder if the internal dialogue that seems to occur with the two "me's" is actually my right and left hemispheres communicating. I wonder, if my corpus collosum was severed, would I still have these dialogues? I've heard that in people that have this procedure done, it's like having two of them but one side has no idea what the other is doing. Hmm....
 
You know, after giving it some thought, I wonder if the internal dialogue that seems to occur with the two "me's" is actually my right and left hemispheres communicating. I wonder, if my corpus collosum was severed, would I still have these dialogues? I've heard that in people that have this procedure done, it's like having two of them but one side has no idea what the other is doing. Hmm....

I know that, from out of nowhere, I'm going to seem like the hairy, wet rag dropped on the red velvet cake, but it occurs to me, wasn't there recent research that suggested that there wasn't really a "left brain/right brain" divide in the brain? I think back to people who have had parts of their brain removed and what remained compensated for the functions.
 
Hi Robin,

Interesting subject.

You may find the excellent book "The Daemon" by Anthony Peake very pertinent to this subject, as well as just being a very fun & interesting read. It contains the story of Joan of Arc as well as numerous other people (mostly famous and very influential to the greater culture and society) who heard "voices within" and related phenomena. It also proposes a fascinating, thought provoking and quite uniquely put theory for what is occurring, whilst also examining a variety of current explanations and theories (if memory serves me correctly. Highly recommended book.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/The-Daemon-Guide-Extraordinary-Secret/dp/1848377215

Also, this recent fascinating article tangentially relates, I suppose...maybe!

http://www.ribbonfarm.com/2015/01/08/ritual-and-the-consciousness-monoculture/
 
I know that, from out of nowhere, I'm going to seem like the hairy, wet rag dropped on the red velvet cake, but it occurs to me, wasn't there recent research that suggested that there wasn't really a "left brain/right brain" divide in the brain? I think back to people who have had parts of their brain removed and what remained compensated for the functions.

Yeah, I remembered that too and what I think it was, was they no longer think people are predominantly left brained or predominantly right brained. That both hemispheres work together, regardless of whether you are creatively inclined or more analytical. I'll have to look into that.
 
Oh my. I hope I don't regret this, but I am one of those who heard voices "in my head" growing up. I thought it was normal until I said something out loud about it, and then my siblings made ruthless fun of me.

As I got older the voices coalesced into one another, so that by the time I was twelve, there was only one other voice in my head to argue with me, lol. I still have that voice, but it is definitely internal, not external, and therefore "normal." I do wonder about the choir I had in my head as a child, though.
I think we would all like to hear more about this:

Did your voices seem to share your memory and knowledge?

Did they argue with you?

Did you feel they had distinct personalities?

I think this is a fascinating phenomenon, and one that is almost invisible because people automatically assume that hearing voices is dangerous - which it obviously is in some cases. As Saiko said earlier, the definition of mental illness is completely arbitrary - except in as much as it relates to the danger people pose to themselves and others.

David
 
I think it's far more common than anyone knows. There's a MAJOR stigma there. And it's a good thing you didn't seek therapy because it likely would have done a lot of harm. The book I mentioned in my earlier post stated that studies showed that in the vast majority of cases of children who heard voices, they were benevolent or at the very least neutral, and that often the voices disappeared by adulthood. Others whose voices remained said the voices were often helpful and offered advice that proved useful.

It's amazing to me how psychology and psychiatry have ignored this and promoted hearing voices as strictly pathological. I cannot imagine how much harm has been done to some by supposedly well meaning parents and therapists, when the issue usually resolves on its own.

Unless the voices are telling you to cause harm, that's a whole different animal.
 
Thanks for the additional details. It certainly doesn't sound like any form of craziness or mental illness. It just sounds kind of normal. (Though I haven't had that experience myself).
 
It's amazing to me how psychology and psychiatry have ignored this and promoted hearing voices as strictly pathological. I cannot imagine how much harm has been done to some by supposedly well meaning parents and therapists, when the issue usually resolves on its own.
Agreed. Recently I came across a Dutch medium who had a tough time in childhood because his normal experiences were diagnosed as mental illness. But one expert said, "You're not crazy. You're gifted" and was fired for disrupting the treatment plan.

In the past, even left-handedness in children was seen as something to be stopped, by force if necessary. Nowadays the 'evils' are different, and instead of physical beatings drugs are used. But that doesn't make it any more acceptable.
 
Thanks, vault, I may actually check out your book recommendation. (OMG, I have so many books to read now!)

You might also find this of interest, a study I found long ago but always stuck with me.

http://psychrights.org/articles/rosenham.htm

Yes, thanks. I will check it out. Funny, for a long time I wanted to be a psychologist. I was even considering going back to school to get the degree and provide marriage and family counseling. Long story short, I became very disenchanted with the entire industry, and realised how little they actually know. Sad =( (some humor there from the r6? r7r? threads)
 
Hi David,

Surprised anyone would really care, but I will try to answer your questions.
Well if we take the radio/filter/tv analogy at all seriously, isn't it conceivable that some people tune to more than one channel?
It actually doesn't talk to me anymore, probably because I spent some time trying to actively suppress it, worried that listening to the voice might not be good for me. Not because it ever told me to harm myself or others or anything like that. It was a rational and empathetic voice, actually. But I got paranoid that maybe this was all craziness, like Saiko said, and not good for me. A shame, though, as it aided me a lot, helping with creativity and even helping me solve math problems! I suppose I chased it away, though maybe if I asked it would come back?
.

I would say, think carefully first, and then if you are happy with the idea maybe you should call him back (out loud when you are sure to be on your own!)

Thanks for an interesting discussion!

David
 
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If I'm not mistaken, Daniel Pinchbeck of "Breaking Open the Head" fame, started hearing voices after experimenting with entheogens.
 
I found one of the studies I was talking about earlier;
I read somewhere, a while back, that some psychologist, who treated people who hear voices that were very abusive and "told" the patient in question to do bad things, hurting people etc, to instead of ignoring the voices, try to calmly listen and "reason" with their voices. When they did that, often the "voices" began to calm down, and wasn't that abusive anymore, and became more "reasonable" and didn't pester the person in question that much, anymore. This didn't work on all the patients, but for many it was a very effective.

Apparently this seems to work for some the study says;

Abstract
Background

One in four patients with schizophrenia responds poorly to antipsychotic medication, continuing to hear persecutory auditory hallucinations. Patients who are able to sustain a dialogue with their persecutor feel much more in control.

Aims

To develop a computerised system that enables the patient to create an avatar of their persecutor. To encourage them to engage in a dialogue with the avatar, which the therapist is able to control so that the avatar progressively yields control to the patient.

Method

Avatar therapy was evaluated by a randomised, single blind, partial crossover trial comparing the novel therapy with treatment as usual (TAU). We used three main outcome measures: (a) the Psychotic Symptom Rating Scale (PSYRATS), hallucinations section; (b) the Omnipotence and Malevolence subscales of the Revised Beliefs About Voices Questionnaire (BAVQ-R); and (c) the Calgary Depression Scale (CDS).

Results

The control group showed no change over time in their scores on the three assessments, whereas the novel therapy group showed mean reductions in the total PSYRATS score (auditory hallucinations) of 8.75 (P = 0.003) and in the BAVQ-R combined score of omnipotence and malevolence of the voices of 5.88 (P = 0.004). There was no significant reduction in the CDS total score for depression. For the crossover control group, comparison of the period of TAU with the period of avatar therapy confirmed the findings of the previous analysis. The effect size of the therapy was 0.8.

Conclusions

Avatar therapy represents a promising treatment for medication-resistant auditory hallucinations. Replication with a larger sample is required before roll-out to clinical settings.
http://bjp.rcpsych.org/content/202/6/428.short
 
Oh my. I hope I don't regret this, but I am one of those who heard voices "in my head" growing up. I thought it was normal until I said something out loud about it, and then my siblings made ruthless fun of me.

As I got older the voices coalesced into one another, so that by the time I was twelve, there was only one other voice in my head to argue with me, lol. I still have that voice, but it is definitely internal, not external, and therefore "normal." I do wonder about the choir I had in my head as a child, though.

I think we would all like to hear more about this:

Did your voices seem to share your memory and knowledge?

Did they argue with you?

Did you feel they had distinct personalities?

I think this is a fascinating phenomenon, and one that is almost invisible because people automatically assume that hearing voices is dangerous - which it obviously is in some cases. As Saiko said earlier, the definition of mental illness is completely arbitrary - except in as much as it relates to the danger people pose to themselves and others.

David

Thanks for the additional details. It certainly doesn't sound like any form of craziness or mental illness. It just sounds kind of normal. (Though I haven't had that experience myself).

I found one of the studies I was talking about earlier;


Apparently this seems to work for some the study says;

http://bjp.rcpsych.org/content/202/6/428.short

Clinical parapsychology and critical psychiatry is bound to meet and work together some time in the future, I suppose. Renaud Evrard is a person who already belongs to both fields. He presented a full paper about hearing voices during the Parapsychological Association Convention of 2013:

FROM SYMPTOMTO DIFFERENCE: “HEARING VOICES”
AS A PARADIGM FOR CLINICAL PRACTICE WITH
EXCEPTIONAL EXPERIENCES

Renaud Evrard
Institut Métapsychique International; Center for Information, Research, and Counseling on
Exceptional Experiences, Paris, France
[ evrardrenaud@gmail.com ]
Traditionally considered psychopathological auditory-verbal hallucinations, voices heard by
patients, but also by many people from the general population, are currently the subject of much
attention from researchers, clinicians and public authorities. One might think that voice-hearing is a
psychopathological experience that has little to do with parapsychological phenomenology, except
when information is ostensibly acquired paranormally under the form of a voice. But paranormal
and spiritual interpretations of voices are ubiquitous in many studies of voice-hearing, and even are
outstanding examples of salutogenic appraisals of psychotic-like experiences. The research on the
type of appraisal along the axes ofinternal/external or personal/impersonal provides direct guidance
on clinical intervention strategies. No longer focusing on the “what” but rather on the “how” of
these experiences helps to avoid some biases relative to the assessment of beliefs - especially
unusual beliefs - in the clinical setting.
In this paper, I first describe the genesis of the Hearing Voices Movement, as presented by the
Dutch psychiatrist Marius Romme, and then selected research is reviewed on these anomalous
experiences. I argue that parapsychology has much to learn fromthe Hearing Voices Movement,
and vice versa. The change of perspective on voice-hearing - from a symptomto an individual
difference- may be generalized for all exceptional experiences, as the late Rhea White had begun to
establish with her Exceptional Human Experiences Network. This leads us to consider how
parapsychological research is used by people searching for meaning due to their exceptional
experiences, and conversely how researchers attempt to normalize these experiences. How to
maintain a clinical approach of exceptional experiences when facing a discourse that disqualifies
their psychopathological approach? As the figurehead of the broader movement of “recovery,” the
Hearing Voices Movement offers a competitive clinical practice, but fails to provide a true
differential clinical practice,starting from a neutral name-referring to several psychopathological
pathways that need to be distinguished.

And this year, Evrard is going to hold a Program Chair at the joint conference of Parapsychological Association and Society for Psychical Research in the University of Greenwich. Quite a honor!
 
Agreed. Recently I came across a Dutch medium who had a tough time in childhood because his normal experiences were diagnosed as mental illness. But one expert said, "You're not crazy. You're gifted" and was fired for disrupting the treatment plan.

In the past, even left-handedness in children was seen as something to be stopped, by force if necessary. Nowadays the 'evils' are different, and instead of physical beatings drugs are used. But that doesn't make it any more acceptable.

In Russia, left-handedness was considered to be a pathology even in the early 1990's, and children was forced out it in a harshest way possible. The same for masturbation: it was thought to be a perversive child illness, which had to be stopped at any cost. Kids were still being told the old tales of getting blind because of it when I went to school in 1993!

The Soviet Union was one the worst places on Earth for everyone and everything even slightly different. The very minor deviation was considered to be a disaster to be treated in a most atrocious and inhuman way.
 
In Russia, left-handedness was considered to be a pathology even in the early 1990's, and children was forced out it in a harshest way possible. The same for masturbation: it was thought to be a perversive child illness, which had to be stopped at any cost. Kids were still being told the old tales of getting blind because of it when I went to school in 1993!

The Soviet Union was one the worst places on Earth for everyone and everything even slightly different. The very minor deviation was considered to be a disaster to be treated in a most atrocious and inhuman way.
Thanks for your insights.

I'm British, but have roots extending back to the former Soviet Union. I'm always interested to hear what's going on in that part of the world.
 
Clinical parapsychology and critical psychiatry is bound to meet and work together some time in the future, I suppose. Renaud Evrard is a person who already belongs to both fields. He presented a full paper about hearing voices during the Parapsychological Association Convention of 2013:

Is there any way to get access to that paper - it sounds very interesting?

David
 
Article recently published in the Lancet:

Experiences of hearing voices: analysis of a novel phenomenological survey
Auditory hallucinations—or voices—are a common feature of many psychiatric disorders and are also experienced by individuals with no psychiatric history. Understanding of the variation in subjective experiences of hallucination is central to psychiatry, yet systematic empirical research on the phenomenology of auditory hallucinations remains scarce. We aimed to record a detailed and diverse collection of experiences, in the words of the people who hear voices themselves.

Supplementary audio podcast (14 MB mp3)
 
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