Pizzagate. Plus, Ex-FBI Undercover Agent Bob Hamer |357|

#21
Possibly this account of her work will make you think a little more:

http://www.newstatesman.com/culture...ic-doldrums-all-female-bands-revival-big-moon

Calling stuff like this art, doesn't cut it. I mean suppose some guy views this 'art' and it destabilises him enough that he tries to enact it.

Yes, some horror movies may fall into the same category - but I don't think I'd want a POTUS that liked ghoulish horror movies!

David
 
#22
@Alex I really think you need to try to put together a strong case that Pizzagate is true. I tend to think it is, but clearly a lot of people don't, and I don't think we should promote this without pretty clear evidence. If you can't do that, it might be best to delete this thread and the accompanying podcast.

David
 
Last edited:
#23
I've already gone down the rabbit hole on this one a little bit and walked away from it on account of not enjoying moiling in rabbit holes overly long.

Nonetheless, here's a couple things maybe someone who has continued to moil there can clear up for me (I've only listened to half the episode so far, so forgive me if it was touched upon already...)

First thing - and not specifically related to Pizzagate as a topic: I don't personally get the knee-jerk, perfunctory reaction of condemning Pizzagate as a topic worthy of discussion and thought. There is a strange censorship around this topic that I've noticed even among friends and family who are generally open-minded - almost as though something about this topic triggers them to discount the whole thing before you can even put all the pieces on the table for consideration. Perhaps it is too frightening to consider? Perhaps - as I've heard some speculate - a much greater proportion of our population has been perpetrated against as children than we generally think to be true and the need to suppress those memories is stronger than the need to tear the lid off this pedo stuff (rather hard to prove, I'd imagine). In a conversation not long ago with a family member about Woody Allen's alleged sex crimes, I received a startlingly gruff, nearly aggressive reaction from him in which he said "...and maybe none of the accusations against him are true at all and were all made up!" You see this with some people around the Cosby accusations as well as Joe Paterno's involvement with the scandals at Penn State. Even in adult-on-adult sex crimes, there seems to be a strong tendency out there to disbelieve, despite good data that shows that it is rare that victims lie about these events taking place.

Sure, there are several holes in some of the "data" the "investigators" have put out there (Alex, I liked how you framed it as an "open source" investigation - I actually laughed because I haven't heard anyone else describe it as anything less than a full-on "serious" investigation). Some of the various pieces are laughable. Some of the sources of information are less than credible. I get it. It's a morass that few people have the time to look into (I don't, but I did anyway because I'm like that...) But, that brings me to point #2...

Second thing - when I first looked into this, my first thought was that the major link that the whole thing rises or falls on is *whether or not that supposed FBI document that discusses the code words is legitimate*. Pizza. Chicken. Having only one slice of pizza to split numerous ways, etc. HAS IT BEEN CONCLUSIVELY DETERMINED that this document is legitimate and that the FBI stands behind it? A good counter-explanation to the strange wording in the emails that immediately comes to mind is that, being politically involved, these folks were savvy enough to disguise something purely political that they were working on in order to protect their work and their candidate. Perhaps it was nothing nefarious at all. However, if the FBI pedo rosetta stone (so to speak) is legit, then that adds a lot of gravity to Pizzagate - and would be a clincher, as far as I'm concerned. Some other possible explanations could be, I don't know, maybe they were using voice-to-text to dictate emails and it got garbled. Overzealous spell-checking gone awry. Who knows?

Seriously - if this second point has been discredited, I think you can walk away from this particular "meme-plex" called Pizzagate. HOWEVER, that is not the same as saying that high powered pedo-rings don't exist. Those are well documented.

Ugh, I could have just read some more links faster than it took me to write this. Oh well. More time wasted on Pizzagate.
 
#24
Possibly this account of her work will make you think a little more:

http://www.newstatesman.com/culture...ic-doldrums-all-female-bands-revival-big-moon

Calling stuff like this art, doesn't cut it. I mean suppose some guy views this 'art' and it destabilises him enough that he tries to enact it.

Yes, some horror movies may fall into the same category - but I don't think I'd want a POTUS that liked ghoulish horror movies!

David
You may want to check your link?
 
#25
I've already gone down the rabbit hole on this one a little bit and walked away from it on account of not enjoying moiling in rabbit holes overly long.

Nonetheless, here's a couple things maybe someone who has continued to moil there can clear up for me (I've only listened to half the episode so far, so forgive me if it was touched upon already...)

First thing - and not specifically related to Pizzagate as a topic: I don't personally get the knee-jerk, perfunctory reaction of condemning Pizzagate as a topic worthy of discussion and thought.
agreed. actually, I can think of very few topics that are more important to discuss.




Second thing - when I first looked into this, my first thought was that the major link that the whole thing rises or falls on is *whether or not that supposed FBI document that discusses the code words is legitimate
the FBI doc just discusses the symbols. and it very hard [read impossible] to get the FBI to confirm specific words. Bob Hamer does confirm that these folks do use coded communication and are way, way over-the-top with regard to secrecy.

bottom line -- I don't think the John Podesta, Dennis Hassert (remember he was never convicted of sex crimes against children) Comet Pizza Childcare Center has much of a chance of succeeding.
 
#26
this is all very easy to investigate... if you have a really, really strong stomach. just google:
"disgusting pizzagate art"

so no, we can't send people to jail for liking art that depicts adults sexually abusing children, but we can question whether they should assume high ranking political positions.
 
#27
Do you have a similar view on creepy/horror movies?
The problem I have with many horror movies is that they promote a false view of spirits. They teach people to be afraid of spirits when in reality spirits are not like they are portrayed in horror movies and there is no reason to be afraid of them.
 
Last edited:
#29
The problem I have with many horror movies is that they promote a false view of spirits. They teach people to be afraid of spirits when in reality there is no reason to be afraid of them.
I've noticed this around OBE depictions in movies, too. Also, in one of the Matrix movies (one of the three I haven't seen) I believe there is a scene where a woman in an after-death state is "lured" by spirits who look like her family but she is cynical enough to disbelieve that is what they are, which prompts some demiurge like figure to appear and attempt to convince her to come with him/it. To this, she says something like, "If I didn't have a choice, you'd MAKE me come with you" and she states she'll stay there for all eternity and not come with him/it to whatever (presumably horrifying) destination he/it wants her to go.

ALSO, about evil spirits manipulating people into committing heinous acts - consider the accounts in Return from Tomorrow in which George Ritchie discusses alcoholic spirits promoting the drinking of incarnate drunks so that they could infiltrate their bodies and drink again from beyond the grave. Another frightening account - from no less than Robert Monroe - is that of the "loosh" - a semi-physical life-giving energy that people apparently exude during moments of peak emotionality - particularly fear and dread. If I'm not mistaken, some non-physical entity informed Monroe during an OBE that human beings were put here in order for non-physical entities to "harvest our loosh" as it is something they feed off of. Perhaps being raped or molested as a child is a rich source of loosh for such entities? If so (and I know this is waaaaaaayyyyy far out and disturbing to contemplate) perhaps those beings infiltrate mild perverts and break them wide open and manipulate them to do horrible deeds so that they can harvest mega crops of loosh?

Now that I went there, I wonder what the hell Robert Monroe was up to making all that expensive hemi-sync stuff for people to have OBEs when he himself encountered such awful darkness?

Forever yours,
Moiling in the rabbit hole

*EDIT*

P.S. - The point I failed to make as I ended up working against my own thesis was: Doesn't it seem like there are powers that be that want to frighten us away from looking into these things? Perhaps it would be too empowering for people to know spirits exist, to speak with them, to have OBEs, to know that one is not just a body waiting to die, that NDEs really do point to transcendent values that put the lie to the way this world works? ...then I got stuck on the "loosh." Dammit.
 
Last edited:
#30
I wonder what the hell Robert Monroe was up to making all that expensive hemi-sync stuff for people to have OBEs
To make money.

Robert Monroe was unable to produce veridical information in scientific tests.
http://vedicilluminations.com/downloads/Consciousness-Life-After-Death/Charles Tart - Six Studies of Out-of-the-Body Experiences (OBE).pdf

Monroe many be an expert on inducing non-veridical OBE's, but I don't consider him a reliable source of information on the afterlife.
 
#31
so no, we can't send people to jail for liking art that depicts adults sexually abusing children, but we can question whether they should assume high ranking political positions.
There are laws against child pornography. They apply to art, paintings, literature etc, not just photographs.
 
Last edited:
#32
In the fall of 2016, I attended a conference led by someone famous who had a Near Death Experience. One person there asked the conference leader, from their experience, do they belief evil exists in the universe. I met the person who asked the question, and she told me her story, and I understand why she asked about evil.

She was about 60 years old. She told me that she had an out-of-body experiences. It first happened when she witnessed her father kidnap a 5 year old boy, have forced sex with him, and then kill him. The trauma of seeing this caused her to leave her body, and, in the astral, she met a being of light who comforted her. She still has visits with that light being. Her father used her many times as a lure in public park settings to attract little boys, and he repeated his act of having sex with them and killing them in front of her.

As an adult, she went to the FBI to report her story, mostly for the benefit of anyone still looking for their missing children, but she couldn't remember enough detail from her childhood to be helpful. Her father had long ago died. Apparently, her father was a highly respected university professor. He was from Germany. He had survived World War II, and was brought over after the war.

She is still in direct communication with the spirit beings of some of the boys she saw killed. She told me they offer her comfort as well, telling her she is not to blame, and that they are happy where they are.

In my book, her father's was evil, and his acts were evil, unqualified evil. It seems to me, from the little detail she provided about her father, he fits a profile of many murderous pedophiles. They are highly placed in society, and they are untouchable by law enforcement.

I believe David Icke reports well on these phenomena. He basic conclusion is that the ruling elite, world-wide, are human bodies, possessed by the walk-in astral consciousness of inter-dimensional reptilian aliens, who require the energy harvested from the satanic ritual rape and murder of pre-pubescent children.

John Podesta's emails seem to portray this very phenomenon, and the information they contained had to be suppressed, at all costs, even if that includes throwing the election to Donald Trump, our "Distractor-in-Chief".
 
#33
In the fall of 2016, I attended a conference led by someone famous who had a Near Death Experience. One person there asked the conference leader, from their experience, do they belief evil exists in the universe. I met the person who asked the question, and she told me her story, and I understand why she asked about evil.

She was about 60 years old. She told me that she had an out-of-body experiences. It first happened when she witnessed her father kidnap a 5 year old boy, have forced sex with him, and then kill him. The trauma of seeing this caused her to leave her body, and, in the astral, she met a being of light who comforted her. She still has visits with that light being. Her father used her many times as a lure in public park settings to attract little boys, and he repeated his act of having sex with them and killing them in front of her.

As an adult, she went to the FBI to report her story, mostly for the benefit of anyone still looking for their missing children, but she couldn't remember enough detail from her childhood to be helpful. Her father had long ago died. Apparently, her father was a highly respected university professor. He was from Germany. He had survived World War II, and was brought over after the war.

She is still in direct communication with the spirit beings of some of the boys she saw killed. She told me they offer her comfort as well, telling her she is not to blame, and that they are happy where they are.

In my book, her father's was evil, and his acts were evil, unqualified evil. It seems to me, from the little detail she provided about her father, he fits a profile of many murderous pedophiles. They are highly placed in society, and they are untouchable by law enforcement.

I believe David Icke reports well on these phenomena. He basic conclusion is that the ruling elite, world-wide, are human bodies, possessed by the walk-in astral consciousness of inter-dimensional reptilian aliens, who require the energy harvested from the satanic ritual rape and murder of pre-pubescent children.

John Podesta's emails seem to portray this very phenomenon, and the information they contained had to be suppressed, at all costs, even if that includes throwing the election to Donald Trump, our "Distractor-in-Chief".
thx for sharing... so, so sad... but revealing. I think we can grow by facing this evil... and by continuing to look up dispute the horror.
 
#34
bottom line -- I don't think the John Podesta, Dennis Hassert (remember he was never convicted of sex crimes against children) Comet Pizza Childcare Center has much of a chance of succeeding.
I would like to agree with you - but there is ample evidence of people being bullheaded enough, wedded enough to their worldviews that preclude this stuff from being possible, that I'd wager some people would let those folks babysit their kids just to show people like us up. I recall an episode on Penn and Teller's bullsh*t series of some staunch rationalist-type woman allowing her very young son to walk around the streets of a large city by himself, riding the subway system here and there, and citing crime statistics in defense of her behavior. Something like, "It's not nearly as dangerous out there as the media would have you believe - and children aren't so stupid and helpless as people make them out to be - so stop being so puritanical and protectionist and get off my enlightened back!" I'm sure the NAMBLA fellas would agree with at least her second point, if not also the first, if only to increase their access to children.
 
#35
I believe David Icke reports well on these phenomena. He basic conclusion is that the ruling elite, world-wide, are human bodies, possessed by the walk-in astral consciousness of inter-dimensional reptilian aliens, who require the energy harvested from the satanic ritual rape and murder of pre-pubescent children.
I read your post with interest and then with some deeper reflection once I came to this bit... a year or two ago this part about David Icke would have caused me to laugh and then discount everything you wrote as some sort of trolling (especially as this is your only post) but you will notice the nearly identical parallel between what Icke believes and what Robert Monroe discussed re: Loosh.

I'm vaguely aware of similar motifs in folklore, but I can't place it just now. Once you start to see such outrageous - but repeated - ideas in various disparate locations, it starts to look as though something may be up.
 
#36
@Alex I really think you need to try to put together a strong case that Pizzagate is true. I tend to think it is, but clearly a lot of people don't, and I don't think we should promote this without pretty clear evidence. If you can't do that, it might be best to delete this thread and the accompanying podcast.

David
I think yr stuck in "how can this be" mode... and who can blame you. If you choose to dig in you'll find that's it's all true (or maybe worse depending how far you go)... no one would blame you for going on to 358.
 
#37
I think yr stuck in "how can this be" mode... and who can blame you. If you choose to dig in you'll find that's it's all true (or maybe worse depending how far you go)... no one would blame you for going on to 358.
What specifically? As far as I know there is no proof that Clinton, the Podestas or the democratic party at large is complicit in Child Trafficking, though depending on ones perspective there is certainly evidence...but there's a big gulf between evidence and proof.
 
#38
I read your post with interest and then with some deeper reflection once I came to this bit... a year or two ago this part about David Icke would have caused me to laugh and then discount everything you wrote as some sort of trolling (especially as this is your only post) but you will notice the nearly identical parallel between what Icke believes and what Robert Monroe discussed re: Loosh.

I'm vaguely aware of similar motifs in folklore, but I can't place it just now. Once you start to see such outrageous - but repeated - ideas in various disparate locations, it starts to look as though something may be up.
It took a couple of readings for me to get what Monroe is saying about Loosh in "Far Journeys". I like the writings of Bernard Gunther and particularly this article. https://wakeup-world.com/2015/05/23/hyperdimensional-manipulation-and-anchoring-a-higher-frequency/

It is my first time to post here because I find this topic so compelling because it seems to get to the heart of the matter regarding what is going on here, and what is the nature of reality, especially around consciousness.

This is not our planet. We are not the top of the food chain. We have more power than that of which we are aware. There is a program in place that actively keeps this information hidden from us, even when we enter the astral.
 
#39
It took a couple of readings for me to get what Monroe is saying about Loosh in "Far Journeys". I like the writings of Bernard Gunther and particularly this article. https://wakeup-world.com/2015/05/23/hyperdimensional-manipulation-and-anchoring-a-higher-frequency/

It is my first time to post here because I find this topic so compelling because it seems to get to the heart of the matter regarding what is going on here, and what is the nature of reality, especially around consciousness.

This is not our planet. We are not the top of the food chain. We have more power than that of which we are aware. There is a program in place that actively keeps this information hidden from us, even when we enter the astral.
Welcome to the forum!
 
#40
To make money.

Robert Monroe was unable to produce veridical information in scientific tests.
http://vedicilluminations.com/downloads/Consciousness-Life-After-Death/Charles Tart - Six Studies of Out-of-the-Body Experiences (OBE).pdf

Monroe many be an expert on inducing non-veridical OBE's, but I don't consider him a reliable source of information on the afterlife.
Is there any specific OBE'er whom you do consider to be reliable on information on the afterlife?
 
Top