Pizzagate. Plus, Ex-FBI Undercover Agent Bob Hamer |357|

morvern_c said:
So could I trouble one of you for a link to the full caffeinated type?
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Depends on the end-goal surely? Every practice is a road to something. If you want result X then you need the road that leads to X. Ditto if you want result Y - you need the road to result Y.

Where the decaffeination comes in is when a thing is presented as a thing in itself which leads to nowhere. Just becoming a subset of someone's self-ideation.

Kind of like bragging about your Ferrari if you never actually drive it anywhere.
 
I applaud that you are willing to discuss this difficult issue Alex
(I am not sure myself what to make of Pizzagate so I will say nothing about that)

Alex asked - Do you think that people are ever influenced by evil spirits?

First, what is evil?

For me evil is a relative term. One man’s evil is another man’s good. Billions of ordinary human beings through our history have believed slavery was right and good; I believe it is evil. Madeleine Albright felt it was right and good to cause the deaths of 500,000 children in Iraq by means of sanctions; I think it was evil. Many people believe dropping nuclear bombs on two Japanese cities was right and good; I say it was evil. Some people think having sex with children is right and good; I think it is evil.

There was a person on this forum recently arguing that paedophilia was really about child sexual liberation!

Are there evil spirits, in the sense of spiritual entities that think and do stuff I would regard as evil – yes I think there are.
Just as consciousness does not die, evil does not die; so the same range of good and evil (however you wish to calibrate it) exists in the extended realms or spirit realms as exists here.

Finally, yes I think spiritual entities can influence human beings in this world.
I don’t know the technical (scientific) details of how that functions, but my best estimate is that birds of a feather can flock together.
I think there is ample evidence of contact and influence between the spirit realms and this realm throughout human history.

But having said that I think paedophiles are quite capable of their evil out of their own nature and personality and I do not think they are necessarily being influenced by evil spirits.
Those horrible men Bob described had that evil in them; they are what I call demonic souls in human form.
By demonic I mean on my scale of good and evil they are down at the demonic or evil end of the spectrum.
 
FWIW:

I was perusing Frater Acher's website and reading his PDF on contacting one's Holy Guardian Angel. He has some recommendations on meditation which will likely raise some eyebrows around here as he basically says to follow Crowley's instructions in Book 4. Later, he shares the following - which may be of interest to some of you based on the comments in this thread:

Now, do we have time for one last hint at becoming experts in joy without a cause? For me it was only after I had made conscious contact to my HGA that I discovered the strange writings of Drunvalo Melchizedek through a good friend. While I am still confused today by much of what he writes in his two-volume work ‘The Flower of Life’ it does contain one of the biggest magical gifts I ever received. These are the instructions to the ‘Merkvaha Meditation’ according to Drunvalo Melchizedek as part of the second volume of the series. I won’t go into the details of it. Because at this point you either found sufficient sources of joy without a cause in your magical practice and are ready to move on to the next stage. Or you haven’t in which case you will either leave this path altogether - or buy the damn book and start practicing. The meditation consist of consecutive eighteen breaths only. Yet the instructions on what to do during each of these breaths are very precise and cannot be altered. So rather than following abbreviated guidance - which you will find easily by googling the name of the meditation - I recommend buying the full 2nd volume and practicing the technique laid out there. What you will get in return in is one of the most stunning methods of magical protection, healing and joy in eighteen consecutive breaths only.
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Sounds like an extraordinary claim to me. And, for me, extraordinary claims demand me to open my wallet and buy some more magic beans - because I know there's a floating country up there in the sky and, dammit, one of these times, the effing magic beans are going to grow that beanstalk and grant me entrance to realms empyrean! AND, when the denizens of that country try to follow me back to my own realm, I'll cut that damn stalk down and enjoy my loot in peace!

-Philemon
 
Speaking of Crowley, I found this published email correspondence between Jasun Horsley (who writes about ritualistic child abuse) and Peter Levenda (occult book author) interesting. It debates the possibility that Crowley was engaged in child sex abuse (spawning many Thelemites to follow in this practice). Horsley believes it's likely, given Crowley's own brags/claims/writings; Levenda claims there's no evidence for it.

https://auticulture.wordpress.com/2016/07/02/crowley-ritual-abuse-levenda/

Another interesting find was Jasun's link to a book I hadn't heard of, The Witchhunt Narrative: Politics, Psychology, and the Sexual Abuse of Children (by Ross Cheit, a Brown University professor), addressing the false mainstream belief/mantra that all of those satanic child abuse cases in the 1980's were baseless witchhunts fueled by Christian-fundie "satanic panic" and overzealous psychologists.

"In the 1980s, a series of child sex abuse cases rocked the United States. The most famous case was the 1984 McMartin preschool case, but there were a number of others as well. By the latter part of the decade, the assumption was widespread that child sex abuse had become a serious problem in America. Yet within a few years, the concern about it died down considerably. The failure to convict anyone in the McMartin case and a widely publicized appellate decision in New Jersey that freed an accused molester had turned the dominant narrative on its head. In the early 1990s, a new narrative with remarkable staying power emerged: the child sex abuse cases were symptomatic of a “moral panic” that had produced a witch hunt. A central claim in this new witch hunt narrative was that the children who testified were not reliable and easily swayed by prosecutorial suggestion. In time, the notion that child sex abuse was a product of sensationalized over-reporting and far less endemic than originally thought became the new common sense. But did the new witch hunt narrative accurately represent reality? As Ross Cheit demonstrates in his exhaustive account of child sex abuse cases in the past two and a half decades, purveyors of the witch hunt narrative never did the hard work of examining court records in the many cases that reached the courts throughout the nation. Instead, they treated a couple of cases as representative and concluded that the issue was blown far out of proportion. Drawing on years of research into cases in a number of states, Cheit shows that the issue had not been blown out of proportion at all. In fact, child sex abuse convictions were regular occurrences, and the crime occurred far more frequently than conventional wisdom would have us believe. Cheit’s aim is not to simply prove the narrative wrong, however. He also shows how a narrative based on empirically thin evidence became a theory with real social force, and how that theory stood at odds with a far more grim reality. The belief that the charge of child sex abuse was typically a hoax also left us unprepared to deal with the far greater scandal of child sex abuse in the Catholic Church, which, incidentally, has served to substantiate Cheit’s thesis about the pervasiveness of the problem. In sum, The Witch-Hunt Narrative is a magisterial and empirically powerful account of the social dynamics that led to the denial of widespread human tragedy."

https://www.amazon.ca/Witch-Hunt-Narrative-Politics-Psychology-Children/dp/0199931224

It always makes me angry when people use the thoughtless propaganda phrase "Satanic Panic" when they have no idea what they are talking about.
 
iPsoFacTo said:
Wow. Cheit gets the UFO treatment to bolster his claim!

https://www.davidhalperin.net/ufo-abductions-child-sexual-abuse-and-professor-ross-cheit/


Non UFO NYT article, lol
https://www.nytimes.com/2014/06/10/science/the-witch-hunt-narrative-are-we-dismissing-real-victims.html
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He also thas these to "bolster his claim!"

"Ross Cheit has done masterful job of finding the facts buried in the mythology of what happened in the high profile sexual abuse cases of the 1980's and brings a degree of balance to our understanding of these sentinel events." --Charles Wilson, MSSW Senior Director and Sam and Rose Stein Endowed Chair in Child Protection, Chadwick Center for Children & Families, Rady Children's Hospital - San Diego

"Ross Cheit has written a book that must be read by anyone seeking to go beyond the headlines of the multiple victim child abuse cases of the 1980's and 90's and the witch-hunt narrative that grew up around them. Through methodical research into the transcripts of the trials that apparently was never done by the purveyors of that theory, Cheit sheds light on details of the McMartin, Kelly Michaels and Frank Fuster cases that were ignored when they didn't fit the narrative... The book is not easy, but is required reading for all who seek to understand the dynamics of child abuse cases and the hysteria that can arise and lead to misinformation, skewed journalism and injustice for children who have been abused and for adults falsely accused of child abuse." --Judge Judith C. Chirlin, Los Angeles Superior Court (Retired)

"The most important book on its subject in the last thirty years. Most legal efforts to address multiple sexual abuse of children have been strangled at birth since the collapse of the McMartin daycare trial and the assaults on child credibility that followed. Ross Cheit's exacting, calm, close inquiry into the early trials and the media firestorm around them uncovers both grounds for believing the children and the often despicable tactics of the deniers... Cheit shows that the real hysteria lies in the denial of the abuse. If evidence and logic matter, this book will change how allegations of sexual violation of children by adults -- ground zero of sexual abuse and arguably of gender inequality -- are socially understood and legally addressed." --Catharine A. MacKinnon, University of Michigan Law School and Harvard Law School

"Ross Cheit has done masterful job of finding the facts buried in the mythology of what happened in the high profile sexual abuse cases of the 1980's and brings a degree of balance to our understanding of these sentinel events." --Charles Wilson, MSSW Senior Director and Sam and Rose Stein Endowed Chair in Child Protection, Chadwick Center for Children & Families, Rady Children's Hospital - San Diego

"Ross Cheit has written a book that must be read by anyone seeking to go beyond the headlines of the multiple victim child abuse cases of the 1980's and 90's and the witch-hunt narrative that grew up around them. Through methodical research into the transcripts of the trials that apparently was never done by the purveyors of that theory, Cheit sheds light on details of the McMartin, Kelly Michaels and Frank Fuster cases that were ignored when they didn't fit the narrative... The book is not easy, but is required reading for all who seek to understand the dynamics of child abuse cases and the hysteria that can arise and lead to misinformation, skewed journalism and injustice for children who have been abused and for adults

"But what if the skeptics went too far? What if some of the children were really abused? And what if the legacy of these cases is a disturbing tendency to disbelieve children who say they are being molested? Those are the questions that frame this new book by Ross E. Cheit, a political scientist at Brown University who spent nearly 15 years on research, poring over old trial transcripts and interview tapes." --New York Times

"The most important book on its subject in the last thirty years. Most legal efforts to address multiple sexual abuse of children have been strangled at birth since the collapse of the McMartin daycare trial and the assaults on child credibility that followed. Ross Cheit's exacting, calm, close inquiry into the early trials and the media firestorm around them uncovers both grounds for believing the children and the often despicable tactics of the deniers... Cheit shows that the real hysteria lies in the denial of the abuse. If evidence and logic matter, this book will change how allegations of sexual violation of children by adults -- ground zero of sexual abuse and arguably of gender inequality -- are socially understood and legally addressed." --Catharine A. MacKinnon, University of Michigan Law School and Harvard Law School

"Ross Cheit has done masterful job of finding the facts buried in the mythology of what happened in the high profile sexual abuse cases of the 1980's and brings a degree of balance to our understanding of these sentinel events." --Charles Wilson, MSSW Senior Director and Sam and Rose Stein Endowed Chair in Child Protection, Chadwick Center for Children & Families, Rady Children's Hospital - San Diego

"Ross Cheit has written a book that must be read by anyone seeking to go beyond the headlines of the multiple victim child abuse cases of the 1980's and 90's and the witch-hunt narrative that grew up around them. Through methodical research into the transcripts of the trials that apparently was never done by the purveyors of that theory, Cheit sheds light on details of the McMartin, Kelly Michaels and Frank Fuster cases that were ignored when they didn't fit the narrative... The book is not easy, but is required reading for all who seek to understand the dynamics of child abuse cases and the hysteria that can arise and lead to misinformation, skewed journalism and injustice for children who have been abused and for adults falsely accused of child abuse." --Judge Judith C. Chirlin, Los Angeles Superior Court (Retired)

"[Cheit] recounts evidence with scholarly precision that is emotionally engaging and eminently readable... [his] book is a tour de force against the witch-hunt fabulists and those suggestible enough to believe them." --The Providence Journal

"As Gloria Steinem has said multiple times, we can try to save people from drowning one at a time, or go to the top of the river where they are falling in, and prevent these mishaps from happening at all. Cheit is at the top of the river. Now, psychologists need to come together and get there too." --PsycCRITIQUES

"Professor Cheit's thorough and informative tome certainly does its part to combat the overreaction and misdirection that it so carefully documents and criticizes." --Harvard Law Review
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My view is that pretty much since the world got broadband, there is absolutely nothing that can be relied on as truth. However, even before that, history is littered with credentialed people and other 'experts in their fields' to be totally bamboozled by their own biased shortcomings. So blurb away... it means nothing. lol.

In the court of law the expert witness's truth is in the camp of whichever side pays them. ...or perhaps where their own zealotry drives them

It's sort of like this.... now when any image of video can't be faked, the truthful ones get laughed at fake and the fakes get taken seriously. Everyone now has the capability to dig up
whatever the hell it is that provides in their own mind, proof of what they want to believe in.

And of course, if its in a book, it must be truth. Well, unless if its a math book or something. ;)
 
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Charlie Primero said:
Be aware that Lavenda is a rabid Lefitst who will twist any narrative to fit his political agenda.

You can't trust anything he says. Always verify. Always check his footnotes. Always check his sources.
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As opposed to a rabid rightwinger?

I laugh any time I see things like 'lying fake news liberal media', or
'left wing liars', etc .I think, what, as opposed to the propaganda and lies fed to you by your own conservative media.... and your own lying?? lol

Hard line partisans on both sides need to get it into their thick skulls..... however ridiculous and wrong and stupid and lying you think the other side is, your own side behaves the same.
 
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Alex Jones apparently makes shit up so as to then hawk his products to protect you from the shit he just made up.

Worrying about the harm chemtrails are doing to your body? Buy my $49 bottle of Immune System Defender. It's really sugar pills, but wtf, lol
 
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Charlie Primero said:
The Wikileaks email about spending $65,000 for "pizza waitresses" is the one that did it for me.
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I'm trying to see your point of view, but I'm just not getting it.

This is another example where you're letting your bias read into an email what is just not there. Some guy named Don Kuykendall at a company called StratFor sent an email to others at that company, using the company email, that Friday was going to be "Chicago Hot Dog Friday."

Is there something suspicious about that?

Someone else replied a few minutes later that Obama had spent $65k for a dinner at the White House where he flew in hot dogs and pizza from Chicago. Now I don't know about that event, but it sounds completely plausible to me. He's from Chicago, and Chicago is known for its hot dogs and pizza, and the price seems high for an event for us regular people, but not that high for a White House event.

I still don't see anything suspicious.

Then someone else at the company replied "If we get the same 'waitresses,' I'm all for it!!!"

I don't know the context, but if you're reading something disturbing into this chain of emails, it says more about you than it does about them.
 
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