Proposal about "contact with intelligence through extended consciousness" demonstration

#1
Hello,

After Alex's most recent interview with Mary Rodwell, I decided to share my experience about possible communication with another intelligence via extended consciousness and my attempt to verify as scientifically as possible (I am not a scientist, nor am I pretending to be one). I was received pretty well, I did get a little criticism, but overall everyone was really polite and truly interested. Alex responded with idea to start this thread in order to discuss my proposal to go about trying to study it in a scientific manner, in order to possibly hash out some sort of protocol to try and replicate it. So this is what I hope we can do.

A few things.

1. I am definitely not trying to convince or prove anything to anyone. I do not know who or what it is, nor do I know how exactly this works. I only know what I did and what seemed to happen as a result.

2. I am not trying to prove anything to myself. This experience is only one in many others, but the only one I have anything tangible to present and a process to go about trying to replicate it. My other experiences are not appropriates for this and are only anecdotes, but have great personal meaning to me.

3. I am trying to try and replicate my "experiment" with the help of the Skeptiko community. I have great respect for this show and the inquiry it promotes. I feel like there are really smart people here who could help me in areas where I lack. Music is my skill, not science.

4. I am doing this just to basically see if it can be done. I really don't have any emotional stake it in, nor am I trying to get famous, I have no interest in being the next guest on Coast to Coast.. Quite honestly I am scared to share it and don't want to be ridiculed. My main hope is simply to replicate it, what ever happens after that, happens.

5. I know I wrote some ambitions hopes in my proposal, which I do hope for, but I'm not trying to fool myself either. More than likely no one will take this or me seriously, which is expected. so you know :)


Finally.. Thank you all for taking the time. I really appreciate willingness to consider this.


I will repost my proposal in another comment.

If you want to read the proposal and experience in its entirety, please check out the forum discussion at
http://www.skeptiko-forum.com/threa...xperience-please-continue-to-ignore-308.3142/
 
#2
Proposal

Hello all! I’ve been kicking around this idea in my head for a while and I just wanted to type it up and put it out there to see if it would generate any interest. If not then oh well :)

It was after listening to an episode of the CE5 Minneapolis podcast that I really started thinking of a possible solution (a component of the solution would probably be more accurate) to what I think is a major hurdle for the CE5 community. In the episode, Paul was preparing to give a presentation to his fellow college alumni and it was dedicated to how exactly he was going to convey this information effectively without turning people “off”. I think we all know this is EXTREMELY hard to do and sometimes impossible, especially when the current paradigm totes they’re model of consciousness as absolute fact, when there has been no definitive studies on the origins and complete nature of consciousness (neuroscientists themselves admit that they are far from knowing how “the water is turned to wine”). So how do you successfully engage the general public in a way that will make them realize there is something to this and why is so important that we do so?

Lets start with why?

1. So we can help other people take the steps necessary to awaken to the reality of our consciousness and all of the good stuff that comes with it.
2. So we provide a the proverbial “key” to unlock the “door” to the outside of the “box” that most people are locked into. The current taboo mindset of this topic in general, let alone quadruple taboo on the consciousness aspect, is said “box” and is what prevents allot people from even considering this as a possibility. How can you possibly see the bigger picture if you won’t even walk into the room where it is being displayed?
  1. So we can help other people who have had experiences and have difficulty adjusting to said events. Having your sense of reality flipped over can be very emotional and hard to deal with for some people and could possibly create problems. Being able to see that they are not alone and there is legitimacy to they’re experiences could be a great help to them.
  2. So we can help further the purpose of contact, which in my mind is to help us grow into a more mature species so we can be of the greater community we find ourselves in.
  3. If we do not, our maturation as a species will maintain its course.


Now on to how?

The Scientific Method!! The best way we know how to acquire and test knowledge (let it be said that I am not a scientist, nor am I pretending to be, but I do think I/we are capable of engaging in the scientific process). I assume that most people know this already, but the basic way this works is that you create a sound experiment that has the proper controls put in place so we can be 100% sure we are not fooling ourselves. Once we do that, it needs to be replicated from multiple independent sources. Once multiple replications have occurred then reality of what is being tested becomes harder and harder to deny and easier to accept. This is pretty common knowledge.

Next...
How exactly do we engage in this scientifically and experimentally? What results do we hope to achieve? And how do we go about achieving them?



How do we engage?:
Not to long ago I posted a lengthy story about my first group of experiences and how I went about verifying its legitimacy. I set up an “experiment” to prove to myself I wasn’t being mistaken and forced myself to accept that reality of what I experienced. So far my “experiment” has had a very positive response from people and I propose using it as a model to move forward. I will post the link to my prior report in the comments so you can get a more detailed version of the process and the results. In the meantime here is the general layout (which there is always room for improvement)

Experimental group:

  1. Respectfully ask our friends to participate and explain the reasoning behind it. Make sure it is known that this is not a dog and pony show and we hope to use this as a tool to teach and awaken minds.
  2. Experiment must be done indoors. This will control for any and all astronomical events, planets, and conventional aircraft that might be mistaken as contact. This will add to the strength of the data.
  3. Point a camera at a bare wall with nothing reflective at all. No mirrors, no shiny objects, etc.
  4. Do it at night and turn out all lights. Except one small light in order to give a little illumination to the room, so you're not looking at just a black screen when reviewing the video. For example, in my videos I always kept a window in the shot and I kept the blinds down and completely closed, that way the blinds would be illuminated by the outside lights without letting anything in that could interfere.
  5. Make sure all electronics are out of the shot to control for any confusions with lights generated from them.
  6. Start recording with your camera and commence the CE5 protocols.
  7. Respectfully ask our friends to communicate with you via the camera so you can document they’re response. In all of my cases it has been via “flashbulbs” of all different shapes, sizes, and colors
  8. Review video in a dark room and on a big screen if possible, and keep you eyes peeled for they’re response. When I reviewed my videos they “jumped” out at me.
  9. Repeat with multiple cameras to control for a “faulty camera”
  10. Try and get multiple videos to establish that its not a one time thing. I did 10.
  11. Collect and report all successes and failures. We don’t want to “cook the books”

Control Group:
Repeat the same general process for the control group minus the CE5 protocols. Just set up the camera and record for 10 minutes or so while you step out the room to do something else. This way we can compare the two groups and show that the protocols indeed play a role. Provided that everything is successful.


Results I would hope to achieve:
To establish a strong database of scientifically gathered data that cannot be ignored in order to help the general public and scientific community accept there is a reality to this. That this is something that needs to be taken seriously. ( Let it be noted that I am not trying to establish “what it is” or “how it works” just “there is something going on” and “pull your heads out of the sand”)


How do we go about achieving the goal?:

I have laid out the process and successfully completed the “experiment” now we need to replicate it. This is what my fellow CE5’ers need to do. REPLICATE. Do this yourself or with your group, especially now that winter is about to set in for some of us, and help create a data base to use as a tool to educate.

My “experiment" alone has turned a few heads, but not enough. It grabs attention, but its not enough to make it something more than “some crazy thing that happened to my friend or relative” which then gets chalked up to just a ghost story or something of that nature. I can’t help but imagine what it would be like to be able to present not just my “experiment” but a whole series of replications people have done through out the world. Now that would be something that couldn’t just be brushed aside.

Now this might sound overly ambitious and idealistic, but just imagine if mainstream scientists actually acknowledged this enough to say “there is something going on here” and masses of people started to realize there is more to the big picture than meets the eye. That in my opinion would open the flood gates that would eventually destroy any taboo around this topic and lay the path for real advancement. I KNOW I KNOW I'm probably getting way ahead of myself, but its just a thought and a hope. I entertain the idea, but keep myself grounded.



Thank you all for taking the time to read. I would appreciate any and all feedback. I accept that my idea may not resonate with some people and may not work at all, but my intuition has been tugging at me and I need to at least put this out there. I feel this could be my small contribution to the next step.

What ever happens… happens :) Have a good day!!!
 
#3
great Mark. I'm glad you have this new thread up. you might want to invite those who responded to the initial thread to join us over here.

what's the plan for going forward? when can you run some more experiemnts/tests? any thoughts on protocols for ferreting out the false positives?
 
#4
great Mark. I'm glad you have this new thread up. you might want to invite those who responded to the initial thread to join us over here.

what's the plan for going forward? when can you run some more experiemnts/tests? any thoughts on protocols for ferreting out the false positives?

Thanks for the response and sorry for responding so late. My life has been hectic and you know how that goes.

My plan going forward:

I would like to discuss a final protocol that would everyone would be comfortable with. I have laid out my plan above and I would love for people to lay out their criticisms/idea's to make this a solid demonstration (at least as solid as we can since its a strange subject manner). Mostly this would be ways to eliminate any possibility of people assuming I'm playing a hoax and a way for us to verify any glitches such as hot pixels (which was brought up in the previous thread).

When can I run experiments?

Well my wife and I have just moved back to her home and we are trying to get our life in order at the moment, so I could probably try and fit it in here and there. One issue is me being able to get a moment alone long enough to do this, which I can probably do it occasionally, but I can't exactly announce what I'm doing to my new extended family. Maybe squeeze one in a week or every other week, it all depends.

The other thing I am hoping is other people will also participate and try this on their own, so we can get multiple independent replications. You do not need any special powers to do this, nor do you have to spend any money for special information, nor do you have to join a religion or a cult. There are people all around the world doing this and plenty of information on how to do it for free. You won't need anything except a video camera and whatever you need to meditate. Just need to be open minded enough to try and not let the "high strangeness" deter you.


Fretting out false positives.

This is something I'm not entirely sure of. There are a few ways I can think of this.

1. If we are indeed interacting with some sort of intelligence or being, then we need to assume we have no idea how they would react to us or our demonstration. Will they participate? Will they participate in a positive way? If they are indeed hearing and responding to us, then how do we know they won't show up when they please? Maybe they don't want us to succeed and remain hidden? I could go on and on with questions like this.

2. If they can here our "call" via meditation, then we need to make sure not to keep our focus on them during the recording of the control group sessions. Maybe there is a possibility of grabbing their attention without realizing it? We should keep our focus on whatever everyday thing we are engaged in at the moment, act like you know nothing of this type of thing.

3. Maybe there are "hot pixels" or something of that nature that could cause a false positive. Which is why we would need a way to verify such things.

4. If we are dealing with another intelligence, then we need to be respectful and thorough in explaining our intentions of the demonstration and how we would like them to participate, just like we would to another human. If there is someone listening, then we can only hope they are willing to even consider what we are proposing.



Finally.. If this whole thing ends up not working.. Then it will be what it will be and life will go on.
 
#5
4. If we are dealing with another intelligence, then we need to be respectful and thorough in explaining our intentions of the demonstration and how we would like them to participate, just like we would to another human. If there is someone listening, then we can only hope they are willing to even consider what we are proposing.
we might be able to take some queues from prayer research. they have some similar problems in that everyone is kinda praying all the time... and we don't exactly know the kind of entities we're praying to.

if this thing has any chance of working we're gonna have to keep it very simple. we'll run ourselves in circles worrying about the intentions/protocols of the entities on the other side. so, at the end of the day we need no flashes when you don't do the thing... flashes when you do. and, as you said, life goes on either way :)
 
#6
Tater Tot,

I have just copied all the stuff you wrote about your experiences onto my Kindle, to be read before I go to sleep. I am interested to read what you are proposing.

Does "Tater Tot" have any deep significance?

I'll be back soon!

David
 
#7
I would do a control by blowing some talcum powder in the air in front of the camera so you know what kinds of effects can and cannot be caused by dust. You might be able to figure out where to place the light to minimize any effects that can be produced by dust by moving the light around while there is talcum powder in the air and seeing what the video camera records.

The arrangement of light, meditator, and wall, camera settings (focal length, and depth of field, iso setting, aperture in particular) should be the same for everyone doing the experiment as much as possible. For example. "The camera is three feet above the floor pointed at a wall four feet away, focal length 50mm, depth of field 1-5 ft, iso 2000, aperture 5.6. The light is a 3 watt incandescent night light placed three feet above the floor and four feet to the right of the camera. The meditator sits in a chair four feet to the left of the camera." Ideally, the size of the room, paint on the walls, type of ceiling, and the other objects in the room should be as uniform as possible but in an informal experiment like this, obviously, it can't be controlled completely. I don't know what has already been done I am just using numbers as an example, I don't have a video camera so I don't know what realistic settings are used, but Tater Tot can tell the others how he has his room and camera set up and the others should try to use the same set-up if possible.

Tater Tot, If you have already completed an experiment, the next step might be to work out a form of communication, ie one flash for yes, two flashes for no. Or you recite the alphabet and they flash when you get to the letter they want to indicate in order to spell out words. Try to find out who they are, where they are etc. Ask how you can make it easier for them to communicate. Eventually try to obtain information that you don't already know but can be verified.

I also suggest asking not just for "friends" but for the "highest and best entities working for the highest good", or some similar wording.

And participants should be warned that they could experience various types of poltergeist phenomenon in their homes. If a participant or anyone living with them has a nervous disposition, or if there are young children in the home, it might be best to think twice about participating.

For background reading on how others have communicated with "entities" have a look here:
http://www.spiritwritings.com/library.html
Or if the site is down here:
https://web.archive.org/web/20150210115152/http://www.spiritwritings.com/library.html

And the History of Spiritualism by Arthur Conan Doyle vol I and II
http://gutenberg.net.au/plusfifty-a-m.html#letterD
 
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#9
we might be able to take some queues from prayer research. they have some similar problems in that everyone is kinda praying all the time... and we don't exactly know the kind of entities we're praying to.

if this thing has any chance of working we're gonna have to keep it very simple. we'll run ourselves in circles worrying about the intentions/protocols of the entities on the other side. so, at the end of the day we need no flashes when you don't do the thing... flashes when you do. and, as you said, life goes on either way :)
Apologies again for the late response. Im just working two jobs and managing/performing with my band (Im at work as I type) things can get hectic from time to time.

I totally agree with you. Just keep it simple and see what happens. I will still "respectfully ask them" to participate.

I am going to try and squeeze and an experiment this weekend, possibly a control as well.

I will,
1. use my laptop camera
2. Record the first few minutes with the lights on, shut them off, meditate (30 min), turn lights back on, stop camera.
3. Hope for the best.
4. Record 10 minute control video (less time to save hard drive and time)


Should I,

1. Some how mail you the whole raw video? They will be large, maybe to big to email or dropbox.
2. Edit the video down to Before (lights turn off), moment of flash, after ( lights turn on)
3. Both?

What do you think?
 
#10
Tater Tot,

I have just copied all the stuff you wrote about your experiences onto my Kindle, to be read before I go to sleep. I am interested to read what you are proposing.

Does "Tater Tot" have any deep significance?

I'll be back soon!

David

Not really :) Its my stage name when I perform, which was a result of a joke. Plus I really like anything potato. Especially tots.
 
#11
I would do a control by blowing some talcum powder in the air in front of the camera so you know what kinds of effects can and cannot be caused by dust. You might be able to figure out where to place the light to minimize any effects that can be produced by dust by moving the light around while there is talcum powder in the air and seeing what the video camera records.

The arrangement of light, meditator, and wall, camera settings (focal length, and depth of field, iso setting, aperture in particular) should be the same for everyone doing the experiment as much as possible. For example. "The camera is three feet above the floor pointed at a wall four feet away, focal length 50mm, depth of field 1-5 ft, iso 2000, aperture 5.6. The light is a 3 watt incandescent night light placed three feet above the floor and four feet to the right of the camera. The meditator sits in a chair four feet to the left of the camera." Ideally, the size of the room, paint on the walls, type of ceiling, and the other objects in the room should be as uniform as possible but in an informal experiment like this, obviously, it can't be controlled completely. I don't know what has already been done I am just using numbers as an example, I don't have a video camera so I don't know what realistic settings are used, but Tater Tot can tell the others how he has his room and camera set up and the others should try to use the same set-up if possible.

Tater Tot, If you have already completed an experiment, the next step might be to work out a form of communication, ie one flash for yes, two flashes for no. Or you recite the alphabet and they flash when you get to the letter they want to indicate in order to spell out words. Try to find out who they are, where they are etc. Ask how you can make it easier for them to communicate. Eventually try to obtain information that you don't already know but can be verified.

I also suggest asking not just for "friends" but for the "highest and best entities working for the highest good", or some similar wording.

And participants should be warned that they could experience various types of poltergeist phenomenon in their homes. If a participant or anyone living with them has a nervous disposition, or if there are young children in the home, it might be best to think twice about participating.

For background reading on how others have communicated with "entities" have a look here:
http://www.spiritwritings.com/library.html
Or if the site is down here:
https://web.archive.org/web/20150210115152/http://www.spiritwritings.com/library.html

And the History of Spiritualism by Arthur Conan Doyle vol I and II
http://gutenberg.net.au/plusfifty-a-m.html#letterD


Awesome stuff. Thanks for this.


Unfortunately I don't have any talcum power, nor do I know where to get it. But If I were to come across some, I think we could do a "sample video" just for reference. Although, we are looking for flashes of light, which look different than your typical " dust orbs". At least to me. But definitely something to consider.


I definitely didn't consider taking note of how high off the ground the camera is and distance from the wall. I will have to look into that and take some notes. As far as the ISO and aperture goes, I really have no idea how that all works, I was just using a few old cell phone cameras and one digital camera (with really bad video quality). I plan on using my laptop camera to start, so I will dig around in the settings and see if I can find the default setup, then I mark down what they are.

As far a communication goes, I think you have good ideas that we should hash out, but I think the first step should be establishing that the meditation works. Then maybe the next step should be to establish a "yes/no" type of communication. What do you think?
 
#12
Awesome stuff. Thanks for this.


Unfortunately I don't have any talcum power, nor do I know where to get it.
Talcum powder is also known as baby powder, you can get it at the supermarket or drug store. Corn starch, or flour, or powdered sugar, which you can get at the supermarket, might work too but I haven't tried them.
 
#14
Hello all. I know its been a little bit, but I have done what I'm calling a trial video.
The reason I'm calling it this is because I wanted to sit down and do my first experiment, but unfortunately life had its way of getting in the way and I only had a short 40 minute window to try this out. As a result, I had to break my first rule by doing it in the day time. So I tried to do it in the basement. I am staying at my wife's family farm at the moment and without realizing it, I went down stairs and the walls are almost completely covered with framed pictures, which would break another protocol because of the shiny glass ( her grandpa fastened them in a manner that made them impossible to get off without running out of time) . I kept trying to find a clear spot on the wall without any pictures in the shot, and the one spot I found was pretty illuminated from the window above it. Now at this point I'm rushing to beat the arrival of my father in law (I don't want to have to explain this whole thing to him) and I am completely not focused at all, but I tried the meditation anyways, despite all these things. As you might guess it was unsuccessful, but I think the footage I got is helpful because it can be used as a reference for digital noise and things of that nature. I edited out the first 5 minutes of the video and will post it for reference.

I will keep post more when I can get the time to do the first experiment properly without all the hiccups.

Here is the video.

 
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