Mod+ Psychedelics & other mind altering substances -> Culture, Theology and Therapy [Resources]

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Sciborg_S_Patel

#41
The Cannabis Shaman

Cannabis has been revered as sacred by Hindus, Rastafarians and others, and with Souther's '420 Shamanism' movement there is the opportunity to resacralize the West's dominant recreational drug into something more, at the same time as marijuana legalisation sweeps America. Is this the start of a cannabis-shamanism revival, as the modality of shamanism itself crosses the tipping point into the mainstream? A provocative interview that will challenge your conceptions of what shamanism is, and how it can be integrated into the West…
 
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Sciborg_S_Patel

#42
20 Essential Books on the Mysterious Power of Ayahuasca

Despite the recent surge in mainstream popularity of the vine (due primarily to celebrity culture, Elle, Oprah, and National Geographic) the subtle occult, paranormal, and metaphysical aspects of ayahuasca—for those who have dedicated their entire life to understanding and working with it—are still very much in need of further exploration.

Sensationalist coverage such as Lindsey Lohan's recent "illegal vomit" stint also tends to gloss over the incidents of death and rape that have occurred by dark shamans taking advantage of unprepared Westerners with fat wallets. [1] There has been many eye witness accounts given by experienced anthropologists on the dangers of brujeria, or death by invisible darts conjured by brujos in the Amazon and other global indigenous cultures. [2]

Below are books in order of publication that contribute to a considerably more complex and multifaceted view of the sacred medicine.
 
#44
#46
Sciborg_S_Patel, you seem to be very interested in psychedelics and recognize the pivotal role they play, or at least ought to play, in human existence. May I ask about your own experience with them first hand?
 
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Sciborg_S_Patel

#47
Sciborg_S_Patel, you seem to be very interested in psychedelics and recognize the pivotal role they play, or at least ought to play, in human existence. May I ask about your own experience with them first hand?
Sure. Absolutely none. :)

I've just been convinced by the research and my witnessing of the beneficial effects.
 
#48
Sure. Absolutely none. :)

I've just been convinced by the research and my witnessing of the beneficial effects.
Ah, awesome! :) I think it takes a certain kind of wisdom and maturity in order to be appreciate a kind of experience you've never had yourself. We see this all the time with the dismissal of NDEs by so-called skeptics pretending that they're not as earth-shatteringly authentic as they always comes across as to the experiencer, but also to a lesser extent with psychedelics. However, the benefit of discussing psychedelic experiences is that they're easily accessible for everyone who doubts the reality of them, at least in theory

Are you interested in ever trying them yourself, by the way, or is that not your cup of tea?
 

Paul C. Anagnostopoulos

Nap, interrupted.
Member
#49
Ah, awesome! :) I think it takes a certain kind of wisdom and maturity in order to be appreciate a kind of experience you've never had yourself. We see this all the time with the dismissal of NDEs by so-called skeptics pretending that they're not as earth-shatteringly authentic as they always comes across as to the experiencer, ...
Coming across as "earth-shatterlngly authentic" does not guarantee that what was interpreted is actually what happened. Neither does "you had to be there."

~~ Paul
 
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Sciborg_S_Patel

#50
Ah, awesome! :) I think it takes a certain kind of wisdom and maturity in order to be appreciate a kind of experience you've never had yourself. We see this all the time with the dismissal of NDEs by so-called skeptics pretending that they're not as earth-shatteringly authentic as they always comes across as to the experiencer, but also to a lesser extent with psychedelics. However, the benefit of discussing psychedelic experiences is that they're easily accessible for everyone who doubts the reality of them, at least in theory

Are you interested in ever trying them yourself, by the way, or is that not your cup of tea?
I may try it at some point, but not just yet.

I figure I'll know when the right time has come.
 
#51
I may try it at some point, but not just yet.

I figure I'll know when the right time has come.
A wise approach.

Coming across as "earth-shatterlngly authentic" does not guarantee that what was interpreted is actually what happened. Neither does "you had to be there."

~~ Paul
Yes, it does, because anything else is just extreme and meaningless philosophical skepticism.

If that tells you nothing, ask yourself this: Are you a human being? How do you know that? Because you trust your experience of it?

Oh.
 

Paul C. Anagnostopoulos

Nap, interrupted.
Member
#52
Yes, it does, because anything else is just extreme and meaningless philosophical skepticism.

If that tells you nothing, ask yourself this: Are you a human being? How do you know that? Because you trust your experience of it?
Knowing that I am a human being is on one end of the spectrum. There are a dozen lines of evidence that support it. Knowing that I am the second coming of Christ* is on the other end. There are no lines of evidence except my own thoughts.

You appear to claim that there is no spectrum. If I am to accept that your drug-induced vision is of something real, then I must also accept that her insanity-induced vision is real.

~~ Paul

* I did not pick this at random.
 
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Sciborg_S_Patel

#53
Ayahuasca: A Strong Cup of Tea

But those who swear by ayahuasca’s usefulness (many say it’s like having 10 years of therapy in a night) also caution that it has to be treated seriously, calling their experiences while under its influence “work” because, in addition to causing them to vomit and sometimes have diarrhea, it can be frightening and challenging to the psyche.

And although two religious organizations in the United States are sanctioned to use it legally, the N, N-Dimethyltryptamine (or D.M.T.) in ayahuasca is a Schedule I controlled substance — considered to have no medical use and a high potential for abuse. It is in the same category as ecstasy and heroin.

“It must be used carefully, but it has a good mind and body connection,” said Rick Doblin, the founder of the Multidisciplinary Association for Psychedelic Studies in Santa Cruz, Calif., who has a doctorate in public policy from Harvard. “You have a sense of inner light in your brain.”
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Mother of Four Cures PTSD With MDMA

"Amber Lyon of Reset.me interviews MDMA-assisted psychotherapy study participant Rachel Hope about how receiving MDMA as an adjunct to therapy in a clinical trial helped her overcome treatment-resistant PTSD."
 
#54
MDMA has long been known for it's positive psychological benefits. All well and in good in a clinical environment. On the street however you never really know what you are getting. At least for the majority of people. It also has a low LD50. Unless you have a chemical breakdown of what you are getting it will be next to impossible to accurately dose and you may not know your tolerance. Mistakes can and do result in death. Kids will think they are bullett proof and one too many is all it takes. People have swallowed multiple pills through fear of being caught with them only to OD and die. Just wanted to put some perspective in. There are much safer alternatives.

The same is true with anything you would aquire illegally, unless you can be certain of it's safety. Many psychedelic plants can be grown legally. Caapi and chacruna, the main ingredients for Aya can easily be easily obtained and grown as long as your temps are not too low. Cacti as well. But they take a long time to grow enough, perfecting the brew can also take a long time, and lots of experimentation. You will be looking at years even. But as soon as you collect the leaves, bag them or dry them, stick them in a pot, then you may as well have a bag of heroin on you as far as the law is concerned. DMT can easily be extracted in a kitchen with just a little bit of alchemical know how. Sources are everywhere, though I don't condone chopping rare wild trees down. You can always find and join an Aya circle but growing would allow you to connect with the plant and to stay away from the black market.

Mushrooms would be where I would say is a good place to start. Not without danger though, as hunting for wild ones is extremely dangerous unless you know exactly what you are looking for. Psilocybes are less toxic than aspirin, have very little nausea associated and you can take baby steps with dosage as it is far easier to gauge than the others. Cultivated ones will usually be stronger, and far safer. Can take only a month from spore to fruit body. Spores are legal for microscopy purposes only though.

I only offer this for information purposes. For safety reasons and not any endorsement to break the law.
 
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Sciborg_S_Patel

#55
Thanks for that LoneShaman. I recall my roommate in college trying to find a good ecstacy testing kit, but it seemed like a lot of it was based solely on trusting the varied people you might meet in the illegal drug trade. Not necessarily the best proposition.

It's sad that various forces of control have made it so hard to get the proper treatments like MDMA researched, even if it could be incredibly beneficial to so many people including veterans suffering from PTSD. But then the varied corrupt forces, riding on apathy, are apt to treat soldiers like robots to be tossed away when they are no longer needed for wars and photo ops.

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Ayahuasca and the Godhead: An Interview with Wahid Azal of the The Fatimiya Sufi Order

I had the great honor to talk to Wahid Azal recently, who is a Sufi mystic of the The Fatimiya Sufi Order and an Islamic scholar. Wahid has incorporated ayahuasca and Haoma (MAOI inhibitor Syrian Rue x. Australian DMT containing Acacia bark) into his religious practice. He also introduced me to Henry Corbin's ideas of the imaginal plane, which lead me to study the complex metaphysics of Ibn 'Arabi, whose platonic cosmology factors into my own work in graphic novels.
 
#56
It's sad that various forces of control have made it so hard to get the proper treatments like MDMA researched, even if it could be incredibly beneficial to so many people including veterans suffering from PTSD.
It certainly seems so. The pharmaceutical industry is not in the buisness of curing. The psychiatric industry is in bed with the phamacuetical industry in a psuedo scientic cover for what is actually a glossy marketing strategy. New mental diseases are invented along with new sometimes merely relabeled drugs designed to treat. I am quite serious. It is a scam. Actually curing people is not in the program.

MDMA definately opens up the heart, the intense love and connection you feel is what is healing I think. Not really psychedelic though. Used correctly it is perfectly safe contrary to the government propaganda program. The unfortunate cases, under unfortunate circumstances ultimately boil down to a lack of knowledge. The government can take some of that blame as far as I am concerned.
 
#57
Knowing that I am a human being is on one end of the spectrum. There are a dozen lines of evidence that support it. Knowing that I am the second coming of Christ* is on the other end. There are no lines of evidence except my own thoughts.

You appear to claim that there is no spectrum.
Actually, if we are to grant a spectrum, then you are indeed on one end of the spectrum, and NDErs on the other. But the hilarity is that they are on the better end, because their experience was way, WAY more real that ordinary waking life. And the only reason you trust in this reality being real is because that's what your experience tells you.

This is where your complete lack of ability to reason philosophically shows itself. The "dozen lines of evidence that support" that you are a human being are really just thoughts within the human experience itself. They are memories, arising in the present in the experience you are having right now. All the studies you've read, all the coherency you've seen in this human experience, they are just that, experiences in your own thoughts. The experiences of this human life are nothing compared to the NDE experience, however. The fact that Harvard neurosurgeons, casual and avowed atheists will tell you the exact same thing over and over again, should make you pause and think why that might be the case.

The hyper-reality of the NDE world outshines any belief in the exclusivity of this world once you have it, and the data is extremely clear on that point. That alone is rock-solid philosophical proof that it's real. People tell you that again, and again, and again, and again, and yet you never seem to understand it. Once you enter that light, thinking that this life is real in comparison will seem like a complete joke, as it has been for everyone before you and will be for you as well.

If I am to accept that your drug-induced vision is of something real, then I must also accept that her insanity-induced vision is real.
I don't know who you're referring to or why.

* I did not pick this at random.
It doesn't matter why you picked that term. In fact, NDErs ARE the second, third, and millionth coming of Christ in every meaningful sense of the term. If Jesus actually existed (and I'm open to either possibility), then I would argue that he said the things he did because he had a pretty deep NDE at some point in his life and was shown the same things that modern deep NDErs are saying. Actually, the entirety of Jesus' message comes across as the equivalent of gossip compared to the PhD dissertations of modern deep NDErs. Where you can try to puzzle Jesus' message out in a way to make a coherent picture, some modern NDErs will just lay it all out - the nature of reality and the meaning of life in extreme detail.

“You have a sense of inner light in your brain.”
This is Ayahuasca indeed. It can be analogously said that the amount MAOI you take is the depth of the cave you explore in your own psyche, and the amount of DMT is the amount of light you bring with you to see where you're going in that cave. But with enough DMT in your system, you will see your life so insanely clearly for what it is. Highly recommended :)

Mushrooms would be where I would say is a good place to start.
I haven't tried mushrooms, but I still disagree. I think Ayahuasca is the best place to start, for these reasons. Mushrooms can be a confusing experience as the head-space can be hard on a fragile psyche, whereas Ayahuasca has a clear head-space and there's a "safety net" - if it gets too intense too quickly, you can force-puke it out and you'll be fine in ~20 minutes, at least on lower dosages.

And I agree with you guys on the insanity of these industries. But it's all about the money, as it is for most people in this world at this time.
 

Paul C. Anagnostopoulos

Nap, interrupted.
Member
#58
The hyper-reality of the NDE world outshines any belief in the exclusivity of this world once you have it, and the data is extremely clear on that point. That alone is rock-solid philosophical proof that it's real.
I don't see how. My ex-wife was completely convinced that she was the second coming of Christ, but I'm fairly certain she was wrong.

People tell you that again, and again, and again, and again, and yet you never seem to understand it.
That's because I don't believe that a strong feeling of confidence is reliable evidence.

~~ Paul
 
#59
I don't see how. My ex-wife was completely convinced that she was the second coming of Christ, but I'm fairly certain she was wrong.
It's not just the fact that NDErs are convinced that it's rock-solid proof, it's also why they're convinced. They experienced something way more real than ordinary life, and most people who have an NDE say the exact same thing, and virtually all deep NDErs. This is something that's systematically occurring during a definable event, and not just a random conviction based on god knows what (I don't know anything about your ex-wife, but feel free to share).

That's because I don't believe that a strong feeling of confidence is reliable evidence.
And yet, this feeling of confidence is precisely why you believe that you are a human being - trusting in the evidence of your own experience of being a human.
 

Paul C. Anagnostopoulos

Nap, interrupted.
Member
#60
It's not just the fact that NDErs are convinced that it's rock-solid proof, it's also why they're convinced. They experienced something way more real than ordinary life, and most people who have an NDE say the exact same thing, and virtually all deep NDErs. This is something that's systematically occurring during a definable event, and not just a random conviction based on god knows what (I don't know anything about your ex-wife, but feel free to share).
Sorry, I'm not convinced. Why should I be surprised that a similar event produces similar convictions among those experiencing the event? That doesn't mean that the interpretation of the event is correct.

And yet, this feeling of confidence is precisely why you believe that you are a human being - trusting in the evidence of your own experience of being a human.
But I also have other lines of evidence to trust, such as your experience of me. And the fact that I can cause things to happen in the world.

~~ Paul
 
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