Question on NDE

#1
One of the main reported features of an NDE, is that of the experiencer being told by an authoritative Presence that "It is not your time, you must return to the material world".The subsequent return to this earthly realm being facilitated,in a number of cases, by advances in resuscitation techniques.
Before these techniques were available, what happened to the considerable number of these premature arrivals ?
Was it still "not their time?".

Any thoughts?
 
#2
What an intriguing question!
Personally I have no idea and it's too early here in the UK for me to think very clearly.
So I await enlightenment from the usual Skeptiko gurus!
 
#4
One of the main reported features of an NDE, is that of the experiencer being told by an authoritative Presence that "It is not your time, you must return to the material world".The subsequent return to this earthly realm being facilitated,in a number of cases, by advances in resuscitation techniques.
Before these techniques were available, what happened to the considerable number of these premature arrivals ?
Was it still "not their time?".

Any thoughts?
Yes... What is going through the mind of staff who are resuscitating patients today?

Penny Sartori mentioned to me that earlier in her career…

“…whenever I participated in a resuscitation, especially when doing CPR, I used to say out loud and in my mind things like ‘Come on, come back to us’…”

I speculate that the conscious fields of those third parties who might be fighting for the patients life (medical staff or, perhaps loved ones) who don’t want to lose the patient, might include field patterns that incorporate concepts of ‘loss’. They might spontaneously think of similar situations, and think about the ‘deceased’ whom they have lost in the past, or those that they love, and fear to lose. Whilst at the same time, they might also incorporate thoughts which are willing the patient to ‘..come back to us..’.

I've speculated that these field patterns might interact with the patients dysfunctional brain, creating imagery which attempts to interpret these same concepts contained within the field patterns. These patterns might be those of ‘loss’, of the ‘deceased’, combined with messages of ‘wanting you to come back to them’. Which might mean the experient sees imagery which is more relevant to them (people who the experient has lost), and which might evoke similar feelings to those which are in the minds of the attending medical staff.

At other times, perhaps some medical staff’s thoughts are along the lines of… “...we’ve done everything we can, its up to the patient now, if they want to come back, they are going to have to fight...”. Perhaps these thoughts are interpreted within the patients brain as them being given a ‘choice to return, or not’

It's also worthwhile considering what might go through the minds of medical staff (or perhaps loved ones), when monitoring equipment begins to show that the patient is beginning to respond to treatment. Or, perhaps the thoughts of loved ones, when they see the experient responding? To me it is plausible to suggest those wanting to save the patient might breath a sigh of relief. Perhaps thinking thoughts like '...phew we've got them back...’, and/or thoughts of ‘...ah he/she’s not going anywhere, they are not leaving us yet...’ perhaps interpreted by the patient as ‘...it’s not your time...’ and ‘...you have to go back...’ etc.
 
#5
There's at least one case in an NDE account where someone collapses while alone, and has a deep NDE including such a discussion with some wise being. Whether or not it is "their time" hangs in the balance, depending on whether or not some neighbour or relative discovers them quickly. When such help arrives, and full medical aid summoned, the person is then told they must go back, The outcome wasn't predetermined, but dependent on how events unfolded in this world.
 
#6
There's at least one case in an NDE account where someone collapses while alone, and has a deep NDE including such a discussion with some wise being. Whether or not it is "their time" hangs in the balance, depending on whether or not some neighbour or relative discovers them quickly. When such help arrives, and full medical aid summoned, the person is then told they must go back, The outcome wasn't predetermined, but dependent on how events unfolded in this world.
 
#7
Yes Typoz, there are such cases. You've jogged my memory now. I remember one case where a man alone in the house drank a bottle of whisky (as a first line of doing himself in) and then took lots of pills, locked himself in the toilet and hung himself. He had an immediate exit from his body and bitterly regretted his situation because he hadn't realised that this would happen (exiting the body) and didn't seem to know how to get out of the small toilet in his OBE state (Odd but true) . I can't remember how this turned out other than he met his deceased father who talked him through his error and sent him back etc.

So there was no "sender" in the room for this individual
 
#8
. Typoz post: 34964 said:
There's at least one case in an NDE account where someone collapses while alone, and has a deep NDE including such a discussion with some wise being. Whether or not it is "their time" hangs in the balance, depending on whether or not some neighbour or relative discovers them quickly. When such help arrives, and full medical aid summoned, the person is then told they must go back, The outcome wasn't predetermined, but dependent on how events unfolded in this world.
Good point Typoz
 
#9
There's at least one case in an NDE account where someone collapses while alone, and has a deep NDE including such a discussion with some wise being. Whether or not it is "their time" hangs in the balance, depending on whether or not some neighbour or relative discovers them quickly. When such help arrives, and full medical aid summoned, the person is then told they must go back, The outcome wasn't predetermined, but dependent on how events unfolded in this world.
I don't know the case, so can't really comment, but that sounds absolutely typical...
 
#10
Yes Typoz, there are such cases. You've jogged my memory now. I remember one case where a man alone in the house drank a bottle of whisky (as a first line of doing himself in) and then took lots of pills, locked himself in the toilet and hung himself. He had an immediate exit from his body and bitterly regretted his situation because he hadn't realised that this would happen (exiting the body) and didn't seem to know how to get out of the small toilet in his OBE state (Odd but true) . I can't remember how this turned out other than he met his deceased father who talked him through his error and sent him back etc.

So there was no "sender" in the room for this individual
It's always good if I can read these cases...
 
#13
Thanks, I've purchased a copy so I can read it.
Wow, no messing about. I hope you aren't paying more than a few pence for it, Max, it's just about free isn't it. What I mean is please don't go to the trouble
of buying a book just for one case. That said, it's a good book
 
#14
There's at least one case in an NDE account where someone collapses while alone, and has a deep NDE including such a discussion with some wise being. Whether or not it is "their time" hangs in the balance, depending on whether or not some neighbour or relative discovers them quickly. When such help arrives, and full medical aid summoned, the person is then told they must go back, The outcome wasn't predetermined, but dependent on how events unfolded in this world.
http://www.nderf.org/NDERF/NDE_Experiences/denise_nde.htm
The girl who came here at the same time as you. If the ambulance driver takes a different road to the scene, if someone decides to move her and doesn't know what they are doing and cause more damage, if her internal organs are too crushed by the accident by speed and timing, she will stay here. You are laying in your sons bedroom. Your one neighbor was given the responsibility to check on you. It is her choice. Her free will. Will she find you? Will she decide to take a shower first and be too late? Each of us always hangs in a balance, by decisions. Not only by our own actions, but by the free will and actions of others." He finished, "I need to tell you, your neighbor is entering your home. She will find you. You will be going back." With these last words still ringing in my ears, I was sucked like a vacuum back into my body.
 
#15
Wow, no messing about. I hope you aren't paying more than a few pence for it, Max, it's just about free isn't it. What I mean is please don't go to the trouble
of buying a book just for one case. That said, it's a good book
A couple of quid... I enjoy reading about these experiences, particularly when they are the experients direct written recollection. I want my ideas to be challenged Tim, so where somebody has a story, or some data which challenges my ideas, I want to follow them up and explore them.

I was never so gutted as having to scrap years of ideas, and start over again, when I stumbled across a couple of apparition experiences from one of Erlendur Haraldsson's books, but in the end, these challenges only make my ideas stronger.
 
#17
A couple of quid... I enjoy reading about these experiences, particularly when they are the experients direct written recollection. I want my ideas to be challenged Tim, so where somebody has a story, or some data which challenges my ideas, I want to follow them up and explore them.

I was never so gutted as having to scrap years of ideas, and start over again, when I stumbled across a couple of apparition experiences from one of Erlendur Haraldsson's books, but in the end, these challenges only make my ideas stronger.
Okay, Max. Wilson was an accomplished journalist so it's worth having
 
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#18
One of the main reported features of an NDE, is that of the experiencer being told by an authoritative Presence that "It is not your time, you must return to the material world".The subsequent return to this earthly realm being facilitated,in a number of cases, by advances in resuscitation techniques.
Before these techniques were available, what happened to the considerable number of these premature arrivals ?
Was it still "not their time?".

Any thoughts?
I suspect it has less to do with any defined time, than with a potential, sensed at whole-organism level, for the continuation of life, and in which it is at least partially beneficial for the person's will or obscure effort to invest. Sometimes the effort may fail and they'll die anyway, but that doesn't make the effort not worthwhile in the attempt.
 
#19
I suspect it has less to do with any defined time, than with a potential, sensed at whole-organism level, for the continuation of life, and in which it is at least partially beneficial for the person's will or obscure effort to invest. Sometimes the effort may fail and they'll die anyway, but that doesn't make the effort not worthwhile in the attempt.
"a potential, sensed at whole-organism level" "partially beneficial for the person's will or obscure effort to invest."

What part of your whole organism composed this tosh, Kai ? If you've been drinking I forgive you :)
 
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#20
"a potential, sensed at whole-organism level" "partially beneficial for the person's will or obscure effort to invest."

What part of your whole organism composed this tosh, Kai ? If you've been drinking I forgive you :)
If you want to discuss it, I would suggest the other sub forum.
 
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