Rey Hernandez, Scientific Study of ET Contact and the Paranormal |412|

#1
Rey Hernandez, Scientific Study of ET Contact and the Paranormal |412|
by Alex Tsakiris | May 28 | Consciousness Research, Consciousness Science, Parapsychology
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Rey Hernandez’s contact with non-human intelligence has led to the most comprehensive scientific study of extended consciousness experiences and the paranormal.
photo by: Skeptiko
[clip from Project Blue Book]
Crazy about that saucer, eh?
The whole town’s on edge about it. Everyone that comes in here, that’s all they want to talk about.
Well, you can tell them all it was just the weather. No aliens in Florida right now.
Yeah, that we know of.

That’s a clip from the new History Channel series, Project Blue Book and although some claim that the series doesn’t stick close enough to the real history of the US government’s investigation into UFOs and ET contact, I would suggest that it does a pretty good job of reminding us of that history and documenting that history. Because, of course, the problem is, real science of this kind, the kind that Dr Allen Hynek in Project Blue Book was trying to do, is hard to come by.
Rey Hernandez: We had numerous PhD academics involved in this. We had a PhD statistician involved, Dr Russell Scalpone. We had the advice of Dr Dean Radin throughout this process. So it was really a collaborative research effort with academics and researchers.
Alex Tsakiris: This is a total paradigm shift. I don’t care how much you’ve studied UFOs. I don’t care how on the cutting-edge you think you are of conspiracy, alt news, whatever. What we’re asking people to do is take that leap to say, “Okay, well then somebody has to study what’s going on, and here’s a guy who studied it, and he studied it scientifically and now let’s talk about his findings.” And we’re talking about fricking reptilians versus greys versus spirit beings and we’re comparing and contrasting the percentage of people who said they had this kind of contact or that kind of contact.
So before I get onto this interview with the very excellent Rey Hernandez, who has nearly single-handedly created this entire movement of the scientific investigation of contact experiences and he’s drawn to them some of the brightest and most important advanced thinkers we have of our time. I just can’t say enough about what he’s done and about what he reveals in this interview. But before we get to that interview and my poking at Rey, which you’ve got to know I’m going to do, let me return to the Project Blue Book clip, because there’s another interesting little point from that scene that relates to today’s interview.
So the lights on the game would have given out approximately 50,000 Lumens. On a clear night, 5,000 feet, that would diffuse to approximately 100th of that, taking into account the fraction, wind current, the fact that the balloons, cone shapes.
What are you saying?
Did you just put on that song?
Yeah, why?
In your notes you said that Fuller said, the song, that song, told him that he was in danger and you’ve just put it on.

Because one of the findings from Rey’s work, and a messy finding it is, is that the UFO, ET stuff cannot be easily separated from all of that which we call paranormal.
Rey Hernandez: These were overwhelming positive experiences. Number two, it resulted in a positive transformation of the experiencer. Number three and four is that these experiences were primarily not physical, they were primarily paranormal. That was number three. Number four is that these experiences involve a manipulation of space-time.
Stick around, I have a great chat coming up with Rey Hernandez.
 
#2
I think you guys are making it all way too complicated (and, of course, I also don't understand the obligatory nod to the conspiracy theories). It seems to me that you already have the answers you seek. However, it's like you almost get it together and then you backslide into materialistic confusion.

Or maybe I'm just too simple and/or missing something.

I mean you already accept that consciousness is primary/fundamental. Next step is to understand that everything is energy. Not a radical far out concept. In fact, most physicists agree that is the case.

So now we - and everything - are aware energy. Next, understand that Mind is infinite. Then tack on that we have creative powers and imaginations.

Voila! The only limit to what you can and will experience is your own mind. Remove your habitual mental limiters and you are free to be infinite and to interact with all of the other energies and intelligences that exist in the ocean of infinity. These other awareness can do the same thing.

IMO, you guys are getting things backwards. You still approach from the standpoint that the low vibrational energy material world that you're aware that you're perceiving right now is somehow "The Real World" and that the UFOs and spirits live in some other world that is normally cordoned off from the material. The problem with outlook is that there is no "material world". There is no cordon. It's just a matter of energy level that you've been trained to be perceptually stuck on.

Three days straight of intense focus on prayer is a good way to break the habitual. So are psychedelics. So is looking at the shadows of things only. So is meditating inside a lucid dream. So is an isolation tank. Awareness is magnetic. One awareness that is free can free the awarenesses around it. Flip side is that awareness that are stuck on a narrow slice of what is available can cause other awarenesses to fixate.

Does anyone sit there and ponder how things can work as they do in dreams? How is that I could fly? Or talk to a cat? Or be somewhere one minute and then a thousand miles away and/or years away the next? No. We accept that dreams are happening in a mental (mind) environment. Well? You have to make a conclusive and final decision. Are you a closet materialist? Or do you really believe that consciousness is everything and we are first and foremost Mind?

In summary you are Mind. They are Mind. Mind is infinite and creative. Mind and energy are inseparable. Energy can be positive (healing) or negative (damaging) and a lot in between. Anything is possible. It's all you and how you align with the infinite. A habitual little slice of it, a slightly expanded slice or a greatly expanded slice or a dive into the depths of the Ocean. It's all you.

Break your habitual focus and you will be free. It's all up to you. Nobody is keeping secrets from you. You're doing it to yourself. What could "the government" (or whomever) possibly tell you that would be meaningful and help you on your journey?

Merrily, merrily, merrily...life is but a dream - did you awaken from a dream or just shift to a different dream? Where you dreaming then or dreaming now? Or dreaming always? Always. Are the shadows of the things less real than the thing? Are they one? One.
 
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#3
I think you guys are making it all way too complicated (and, of course, I also don't understand the obligatory nod to the conspiracy theories). It seems to me that you already have the answers you seek. However, it's like you almost get it together and then you backslide into materialistic confusion.

Or maybe I'm just too simple and/or missing something.

I mean you already accept that consciousness is primary/fundamental. Next step is to understand that everything is energy. Not a radical far out concept. In fact, most physicists agree that is the case.

So now we - and everything - are aware energy. Next, understand that Mind is infinite. Then tack on that we have creative powers and imaginations.

Voila! The only limit to what you can and will experience is your own mind. Remove your habitual mental limiters and you are free to be infinite and to interact with all of the other energies and intelligences that exist in the ocean of infinity. These other awareness can do the same thing.

IMO, you guys are getting things backwards. You still approach from the standpoint that the low vibrational energy material world that you're aware that you're perceiving right now is somehow "The Real World" and that the UFOs and spirits live in some other world that is normally cordoned off from the material. The problem with outlook is that there is no "material world". There is no cordon. It's just a matter of energy level that you've been trained to be perceptually stuck on.

Three days straight of intense focus on prayer is a good way to break the habitual. So are psychedelics. So is looking at the shadows of things only. So is meditating inside a lucid dream. So is an isolation tank. Awareness is magnetic. One awareness that is free can free the awarenesses around it. Flip side is that awareness that are stuck on a narrow slice of what is available can cause other awarenesses to fixate.

Does anyone sit there and ponder how things can work as they do in dreams? How is that I could fly? Or talk to a cat? Or be somewhere one minute and then a thousand miles away and/or years away the next? No. We accept that dreams are happening in a mental (mind) environment. Well? You have to make a conclusive and final decision. Are you a closet materialist? Or do you really believe that consciousness is everything and we are first and foremost Mind?

In summary you are Mind. They are Mind. Mind is infinite and creative. Mind and energy are inseparable. Energy can be positive (healing) or negative (damaging) and a lot in between. Anything is possible. It's all you and how you align with the infinite. A habitual little slice of it, a slightly expanded slice or a greatly expanded slice or a dive into the depths of the Ocean. It's all you.

Break your habitual focus and you will be free. It's all up to you. Nobody is keeping secrets from you. You're doing it to yourself. What could "the government" (or whomever) possibly tell you that would be meaningful and help you on your journey?

Merrily, merrily, merrily...life is but a dream - did you awaken from a dream or just shift to a different dream? Where you dreaming then or dreaming now? Or dreaming always? Always. Are the shadows of the things less real than the thing? Are they one? One.
I mentioned the same thing on the board last year. Why not just practice the stuff you listen to and research. Maybe they are caught up in the theory and information. It's likely just a hobby for many people on here
 
#7
I think you guys are making it all way too complicated (and, of course, I also don't understand the obligatory nod to the conspiracy theories). It seems to me that you already have the answers you seek. However, it's like you almost get it together and then you backslide into materialistic confusion.

Or maybe I'm just too simple and/or missing something.

I mean you already accept that consciousness is primary/fundamental. Next step is to understand that everything is energy. Not a radical far out concept. In fact, most physicists agree that is the case.
Well, while I too would like Alex to tone down the conspiracy angle, you have to grant it that conspiracy is involved somewhere.

1) What is a conspiracy - it is one group of conscious entities working together to try to pull the wool over other people's eyes - for whatever reason.

2) I think a lot of false information is coming from supposedly reputable sources.

3) However it is done, our consciousnesses are barred from just dipping into other consciousnesses. Perhaps some people can transcend this, but most of us don't seem able.
So now we - and everything - are aware energy. Next, understand that Mind is infinite. Then tack on that we have creative powers and imaginations.
Well I have never been clear whether we are talking about exactly the same energy as physics talks about (measured in Joules), or some extension of the concept, or some sort of metaphor. In any case, either consciousness is primary, or energy is. The energy that I understand, seems too simple and materialistic to perform that role.
IMO, you guys are getting things backwards. You still approach from the standpoint that the low vibrational energy material world that you're aware that you're perceiving right now is somehow "The Real World" and that the UFOs and spirits live in some other world that is normally cordoned off from the material.
Again I'd like to ask if the vibrations you are referring to are measured in Hz (cycles per second - which implies a time dimension of some sort), or whether this is best thought of some other way.
The problem with outlook is that there is no "material world". There is no cordon. It's just a matter of energy level that you've been trained to be perceptually stuck on.

Three days straight of intense focus on prayer is a good way to break the habitual. So are psychedelics. So is looking at the shadows of things only. So is meditating inside a lucid dream. So is an isolation tank. Awareness is magnetic. One awareness that is free can free the awarenesses around it. Flip side is that awareness that are stuck on a narrow slice of what is available can cause other awarenesses to fixate.
Which of these do you use, and if you pray, then whom do you pray to - surely not the Christian God?
Does anyone sit there and ponder how things can work as they do in dreams? How is that I could fly? Or talk to a cat? Or be somewhere one minute and then a thousand miles away and/or years away the next? No. We accept that dreams are happening in a mental (mind) environment. Well? You have to make a conclusive and final decision. Are you a closet materialist? Or do you really believe that consciousness is everything and we are first and foremost Mind?

In summary you are Mind. They are Mind. Mind is infinite and creative. Mind and energy are inseparable. Energy can be positive (healing) or negative (damaging) and a lot in between. Anything is possible. It's all you and how you align with the infinite. A habitual little slice of it, a slightly expanded slice or a greatly expanded slice or a dive into the depths of the Ocean. It's all you.
Once again, energy is a term co-opted by science. Used in its scientific way, energy doesn't have any positive or negative qualities, so I'd really like to clarify what you are really saying. I mean science did grab those words, I mean 'energy' probably used to mean something closer to what you mean.

David
 
#8
For me, finally somebody is talking sense about this subject. I think Rey Hernandez has the contours about right - at least a right as we can be with our current 'stuck in this dimension' thinking - and the best that can do is act as a way finder into domains we don't have a shared language for.

There are hints - Don DeGracia (Skeptiko 388) is a good beginning. There are a bunch of other sources I think drive a deeper awareness of what Hernandez is pointing at - and they combine to create that 'soft mind' (the sceptical state of doubt - or at least rational uncertainty) that is needed to engage with 'extended consciousness'.

Hints about what Fernandez has found to be reasonable are littered through the UFO literature and blithely ignored by the 'rational' 'investigators' when they should, be screaming out "Wake up you idiot jerk!"

But maybe it is the POV of the 'experiencer' that brings that different softer focus angle that opens up perspectives. Hernandez's observation that he goes to conferences to hang out with the experiencers and ignores the performers on the stage is a crisp indictment of intellectual urgers, who are a class apart from experiencers - and are folk who are decidedly not 'off with the fairies'. You need to listen to those 'off with the fairies' with a soft mind.

Hernandez is the kind of person we need - perhaps its a case of 'cometh the hour, cometh the man'?. By that I mean when experiencers apply academic rigour to a theme they tease out the multi-dimensional threads in ways 'straight' academic inquiry cannot do.

The clue that abductions are not concrete is littered through the literature. None of this stuff - not NDEs either - is literally what is experienced. Translation from the metaphysical to the physical is always metaphorical and symbolic at a personal and archetypal level. If you haven't 'been there' in some way it is hard to step out of the frame of hard literalism and feel comfortable with ambiguity and uncertainty as the normal way of knowing - the soft mind.

Arguments about whether an NDE experiencer encounter the 'real Jesus' are silly and should be left for folk whose faith is naive and literal. We can have all the faith drenched assertions we can get our hands on, but the fact is that nobody has the slightest shred of evidence that Jesus, grandad or whomever, who appears is what they appear to be. All we have is evidence that they are mediums of messages - media of some kind. Asserting objective reality in a domain we know stuff all about is ill-disciplined intellectually and essentially faith-based. Mixing the two never works from an intellectual perspective - and why waste time arguing with the faithful? And, besides, we are told these appearances are really performances by those who stage them.

Does it matter? Of course not. We are not upset to discover that our greatest fictional heroes are not 'real'. Why do we imagine that our sense of a personal connection should assure that the figures we see are 'really' those folk? The idea that Jesus zaps around the metaphysical domains looking like he did 2 millennia ago is clearly idiotic. And since we don't know what he looked like as an historic character (if real) all we have is our interpretation of one of countless artist renditions. But then, if we think this really is Jesus, then that's the only image that will convince us to listen to what could be deep sense. If we filter the NDE and OBE and Abduction accounts with some decent discipline the clues about it all being metaphorical and/or symbolic abound.

Pay attention to Rey Hernandez. This guy is talking the best sense you are going to get for some time.
 
#9
Wildcard here is that we have a non-human intelligence demonstrating an unprecedented capacity to manipulate dream and awake states of consciousness.
Alex,
Well, you have had guests on the show in recent months that describe humans doing these things too (forest spirits and whirlwinds in the house, ectoplasm and the laws of physics being denied with tables levitating, etc, meditating and intentionally going to where ET lives). All kind of manipulations of what you call normal reality.

Why would humans be the only perceptual critters capable of such things? IMO, no one (or no entity) is manipulating reality. Rather they are manipulating their own lock and key relationship to infinity. That's all there is to reality (again, IMO based on evidence). Then others get a contact high off of that.
 
#10
Well, while I too would like Alex to tone down the conspiracy angle, you have to grant it that conspiracy is involved somewhere.

1) What is a conspiracy - it is one group of conscious entities working together to try to pull the wool over other people's eyes - for whatever reason. David
If you rely on others to tell you what's what, you're gonna get the wool pulled over your eyes. You had it coming. But how could anyone fool you about what your own mind and soul are? I ask again, what could the govt tell you about UFOs that would help you understand?


3) However it is done, our consciousnesses are barred from just dipping into other consciousnesses. Perhaps some people can transcend this, but most of us don't seem able.David
That's just not true. Most people are limiting themselves on purpose for various reasons.

Well I have never been clear whether we are talking about exactly the same energy as physics talks about (measured in Joules), or some extension of the concept, or some sort of metaphor. In any case, either consciousness is primary, or energy is. The energy that I understand, seems too simple and materialistic to perform that role

Again I'd like to ask if the vibrations you are referring to are measured in Hz (cycles per second - which implies a time dimension of some sort), or whether this is best thought of some other way.David
It isn't the exact same thing physics speaks to because physics is limited to the material paradigm we have constructed.

Which of these do you use, and if you pray, then whom do you pray to - surely not the Christian God?David
Why not the Christian God? It's good energy. You have to align with something. If you're not careful and/or you're ignorant, you could end up aligning with something that is bad energy and that destroys those around you and, eventually, you. Of course there are other options.
 
#11
in the spirit of the UFO/angel healing the Jack Russel Terrier of paralysis story which Ray gave, here is a fantastic video done on a bizarre case of healing via UFO which occurred to a French Physician who was unable to walk well. After the encounter, he was able to walk perfectly and had no signs of even the wound he used to have. Vallee wrote about this case in one of his books.


Others aren’t as lucky. There’s the famous Cash-Landrum case where these poor ladies got symptoms which strongly mimic radiation poisoning after their contact experience.

 
#12
That's just not true. Most people are limiting themselves on purpose for various reasons.
What constitutes "on purpose" is a pretty broad spectrum. For the majority of people, it is deeply ingrained (due to the culture they were raised within) that there is absolutely nothing beyond the limited slice of perception they inhabit. Some of these people never see a crack in that facade - I work alongside them every day.
 
#13
What constitutes "on purpose" is a pretty broad spectrum. For the majority of people, it is deeply ingrained (due to the culture they were raised within) that there is absolutely nothing beyond the limited slice of perception they inhabit. Some of these people never see a crack in that facade - I work alongside them every day.
And yet you know better. What makes you different? They could know better too. They choose not to. I don't believe people are victims of circumstance. We all know what's up. Some just elect to ignore their intuitions and senses and to be controlled by others (and then gripe about it)
 
#14
And yet you know better. What makes you different? They could know better too. They choose not to. I don't believe people are victims of circumstance. We all know what's up. Some just elect to ignore their intuitions and senses and to be controlled by others (and then gripe about it)
Again - what constitutes choosing otherwise constitutes a very broad spectrum. Even if I concede that every single experience an individual has is chosen by them (I think this is true in that our "higher self" does this but our "lower self" is often unaware of these decisions), some decisions have imposed such strong restrictions on particular minds that those restrictions won't break down until death. What makes me different is I grew up with parents who encouraged me to question these very topics. I had transformative experiences that showed me I wasn't a biological robot. Some people do not have such an experience until death.

I think it shows a lack of compassion, or at least empathy, to assume everyone can just snap themselves out of a strongly held paradigm. If their paradigm prevents them from even knowing there is another they could shift to, how would they even know? And this is where the concern over conspiracy comes in - there are many of us who are concerned that there are intelligences, material or otherwise, who seek to prevent people from being aware there is more beyond their current awareness such that those intelligences are able to centralize their power and control.

Eric, it seems to me you are naturally a very intuitive, creative, and expansive mind; maybe it is difficult for you to imagine a mind being any other way? As a child of an Art educator, I've seen up close and personal just how much some people struggle to be creative in any way. For such a mind, it is near impossible they could break out of the circumstances they were given.
 
#15
Again - what constitutes choosing otherwise constitutes a very broad spectrum. Even if I concede that every single experience an individual has is chosen by them (I think this is true in that our "higher self" does this but our "lower self" is often unaware of these decisions), some decisions have imposed such strong restrictions on particular minds that those restrictions won't break down until death. What makes me different is I grew up with parents who encouraged me to question these very topics. I had transformative experiences that showed me I wasn't a biological robot. Some people do not have such an experience until death.

I think it shows a lack of compassion, or at least empathy, to assume everyone can just snap themselves out of a strongly held paradigm. If their paradigm prevents them from even knowing there is another they could shift to, how would they even know? And this is where the concern over conspiracy comes in - there are many of us who are concerned that there are intelligences, material or otherwise, who seek to prevent people from being aware there is more beyond their current awareness such that those intelligences are able to centralize their power and control.

Eric, it seems to me you are naturally a very intuitive, creative, and expansive mind; maybe it is difficult for you to imagine a mind being any other way? As a child of an Art educator, I've seen up close and personal just how much some people struggle to be creative in any way. For such a mind, it is near impossible they could break out of the circumstances they were given.
Oh, I agree with you, Runic, on the assumption that anyone can just snap themselves out of the perceptual spell they currently - and have for a long time - lived under. In fact, that could be dangerous and make them go insane. It should be a gentle process over time. Not everyone can do it. Most people want to have some money, work, get married, have children, watch tv and comfortably grow old. If they are interested in the "spiritual" it's limited to having better health, being "happier" and nicer. I don't criticize that. They're seeking to create a "summerland". Too much knowledge isn't a good thing for such a person. If someone or something is manipulating their reality to keep them in a chosen paradigm, then that isn't necessarily a bad thing - though they are implicitly cooperating, albeit unconsciously, by lending their perceptual force to the scheme. What I have to say is directed at those who want to move beyond that. Be careful what you want, though. You just might get it. It is safer to intellectualize over this stuff than to actually live it.

Some people can take a surprise hit to their habitual paradigm and come out ok - even better - than they were before. Freeing the perceptual lock appears to coincide with a release of personal energy that was tied up in maintaining the lock. It also reveals the available potentials. So healings can occur, etc.

On the downside, a surprise hit to the perceptual paradigm can result in fear, depression and confusion because one has left the world that one had become so comfortable in. When the perceptual lock is released, one is literally inhabiting a different world and it is hard - perhaps impossible - to return to one's old home. This is all predicated on the idea that we are at least co-creating the world by maintaining a perceptual focus on the elements of infinity that we have been trained to select and that we battle, like neurotics, to maintain.

All paradigms that become known as "reality" are sufficiently concrete to prohibit knowledge of other paradigms as equally real. I used to be quite logical/rational. Then one day I had to really ponder why I couldn't get "it". I had an aha! moment in which it came to me that logic is just one tool in the bag and it isn't up to the task. I kept falling back on it, though, because it was so familiar. Then I realized that I was afraid of leaving my known world behind. It took years to get past that fear. Once I did, I was able to live a more intuitive creative life. And then answers began to just flow to me - or sometimes they didn't and in those situations I became comfortable with the sense that life is to be lived, enjoyed and experienced generally and that the need for precise answers, in the English language nonetheless, to every question is just another vestige of the old paradigm - and that it's a rather silly notion that it's even possible.

A milestone is to be aware of the power of paradigms; that they are actual universes and to be able to move between them with intent. That is perceptual freedom. It is also power.

We are meant to be holistic beings that are, ultimately, a feeling; we are not brains that think like computers. As long as we rely solely on thinking, we are going to be stuck in the materialist paradigm, even as we question it. I think, at a certain point, art/music/poetry is a better way to communicate this stuff than analytical language
 
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#16
I think you guys are making it all way too complicated (and, of course, I also don't understand the obligatory nod to the conspiracy theories). It seems to me that you already have the answers you seek. However, it's like you almost get it together and then you backslide into materialistic confusion.

Or maybe I'm just too simple and/or missing something.

I mean you already accept that consciousness is primary/fundamental. Next step is to understand that everything is energy. Not a radical far out concept. In fact, most physicists agree that is the case.

So now we - and everything - are aware energy. Next, understand that Mind is infinite. Then tack on that we have creative powers and imaginations.

Voila! The only limit to what you can and will experience is your own mind. Remove your habitual mental limiters and you are free to be infinite and to interact with all of the other energies and intelligences that exist in the ocean of infinity. These other awareness can do the same thing.

IMO, you guys are getting things backwards. You still approach from the standpoint that the low vibrational energy material world that you're aware that you're perceiving right now is somehow "The Real World" and that the UFOs and spirits live in some other world that is normally cordoned off from the material. The problem with outlook is that there is no "material world". There is no cordon. It's just a matter of energy level that you've been trained to be perceptually stuck on.

Three days straight of intense focus on prayer is a good way to break the habitual. So are psychedelics. So is looking at the shadows of things only. So is meditating inside a lucid dream. So is an isolation tank. Awareness is magnetic. One awareness that is free can free the awarenesses around it. Flip side is that awareness that are stuck on a narrow slice of what is available can cause other awarenesses to fixate.

Does anyone sit there and ponder how things can work as they do in dreams? How is that I could fly? Or talk to a cat? Or be somewhere one minute and then a thousand miles away and/or years away the next? No. We accept that dreams are happening in a mental (mind) environment. Well? You have to make a conclusive and final decision. Are you a closet materialist? Or do you really believe that consciousness is everything and we are first and foremost Mind?

In summary you are Mind. They are Mind. Mind is infinite and creative. Mind and energy are inseparable. Energy can be positive (healing) or negative (damaging) and a lot in between. Anything is possible. It's all you and how you align with the infinite. A habitual little slice of it, a slightly expanded slice or a greatly expanded slice or a dive into the depths of the Ocean. It's all you.

Break your habitual focus and you will be free. It's all up to you. Nobody is keeping secrets from you. You're doing it to yourself. What could "the government" (or whomever) possibly tell you that would be meaningful and help you on your journey?

Merrily, merrily, merrily...life is but a dream - did you awaken from a dream or just shift to a different dream? Where you dreaming then or dreaming now? Or dreaming always? Always. Are the shadows of the things less real than the thing? Are they one? One.
Yet we need to speak of things in terms which make sense to us (even metaphorically) and in ways which are functionally productive. For example, artists and scientists may see and describe an object as being OBJECTIVELY white. Now whether this object is actually white, as our senses are portraying it to us, is (to me) severely in doubt. (Setting aside whether there are even objects which are external to us in the first place). But it makes FUNCTIONAL sense to assume that the object is white. It helps us talk about, manipulate, locate, describe, and study the object in a way which will become functionally beneficial to us. And that’s all we can do. We must engage in this idea of “doublethink” in order to make functional progress in our understanding in a way which we can appreciate and make sense of. If we do not engage in this form of doublethink, I don’t think we can even began to converse about these topics in any useful way.

In a sense, it’s a form of “shut up and calculate.” So, we can both calculate, and at the same time understand that our calculations aren’t necessarily representative of reality on the most fundamental level.

If I missed the spirit of your post here, I apologize. I admit that I was struggling a bit to see your point. Which is likely a shortcoming on my end.
 
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#17
Yet we need to speak of things in terms which make sense to us (even metaphorically) and in ways which are functionally productive. For example, artists and scientists may see and describe an object as being OBJECTIVELY white. Now whether this object is actually white, as our senses are portraying it to us, is (to me) severely in doubt. (Setting aside whether there are even objects which are external to us in the first place). But it makes FUNCTIONAL sense to assume that the object is white. It helps us talk about, manipulate, locate, describe, and study the object in a way which will become functionally beneficial to us. And that’s all we can do. We must engage in this idea of “doublethink” in order to make functional progress in our understanding in a way which we can appreciate and make sense of. If we do not engage in this form of doublethink, I don’t think we can even began to converse about these topics in any useful way.

In a sense, it’s a form of “shut up and calculate.” So, we can both calculate, and at the same time understand that our calculations aren’t necessarily representative of reality on the most fundamental level.

If I missed the spirit of your post here, I apologize. I admit that I was struggling a bit to see your point. Which is likely a shortcoming on my end.
Wormwood,
You're actually making one of points for me. Your need to "talk about, manipulate, locate, describe, and study the object in a way which will become functionally beneficial to us....[and] engage in this idea of “doublethink”"; implies that you are a part of the "conspiracy".

You don't need to do any of those things. You have chosen to do them. Doing those things with others means that you are reaching an agreement with them on how the world works, what's filtered in or out, etc. You are also all compromising your personal realities so as to come to agreements with others. In doing so, as a group, you are constructing a group reality (aka consensus reality). That is a conspiracy; a materialist one at that (since you're using materialist tools).
 
#18
Wormwood,
You're actually making one of points for me. Your need to "talk about, manipulate, locate, describe, and study the object in a way which will become functionally beneficial to us....[and] engage in this idea of “doublethink”"; implies that you are a part of the "conspiracy".

You don't need to do any of those things. You have chosen to do them. Doing those things with others means that you are reaching an agreement with them on how the world works, what's filtered in or out, etc. You are also all compromising your personal reality so as to come to agreements with others. In doing so, as a group, you are constructing a group reality (aka consensus reality). That is a conspiracy; a materialist one at that.
I guess I don’t understand what you’re proposing.
 
#19
I guess I don’t understand what you’re proposing.
There is nothing but Mind and creative imagination. Where our mind is focused a world is created. The world will be complete and internally consistent (except under rare circumstances when the focus breaks down and other possibilities from infinity leak through) If we get highly focused on a limited field of infinity, we begin to perceive that as all there is. We have all become focused on aspects of infinity that involve this dense material world. It's an arbitrary focus, but, once made, it is solidified by training oneself and others to maintain that focus. The feedback loop keeps the focus in force.

Sometimes, for various reasons, deliberate or quite accidental, the focus breaks down and we experience elements from the wider range of perceptual potentials - UFOs, spirits, angels, etc. These are no more or less real than the world that you habitually inhabit.

By trying to understand the universe through the tools of the habitual focus, you are merely reinforcing that the habitual is the "real deal" and these other things are quirky anomalies. Yes, you're admitting there's something to it - you've put one foot in the wider universe - a toe in the pool, but the other foot is firmly planted on terra habitual. Thus, you are part of the conspiracy to maintain the concrete reality of the habitual world. You think you're not, but you are.
 
#20
There is nothing but Mind and creative imagination. Where our mind is focused a world is created. The world will be complete and internally consistent (except under rare circumstances when the focus breaks down and other possibilities from infinity leak through) If we get highly focused on a limited field of infinity, we begin to perceive that as all there is. We have all become focused on aspects of infinity that involve this dense material world. It's an arbitrary focus, but, once made, it is solidified by training oneself and others to maintain that focus. The feedback loop keeps the focus in force.

Sometimes, for various reasons, deliberate or quite accidental, the focus breaks down and we experience elements from the wider range of perceptual potentials - UFOs, spirits, angels, etc. These are no more or less real than the world that you habitually inhabit.

By trying to understand the universe through the tools of the habitual focus, you are merely reinforcing that the habitual is the "real deal" and these other things are quirky anomalies. Yes, you're admitting there's something to it - you've put one foot in the wider universe - a toe in the pool, but the other foot is firmly planted on terra habitual. Thus, you are part of the conspiracy to maintain the concrete reality of the habitual world. You think you're not, but you are.
I agree with this. Essentially all of it. So perhaps I was addressing a straw man. But I would disagree that this most recent post of yours is necessarily at odds with my previous post. I think it’s a matter of the inherent limitations of language and personal interpretation.
 
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