Robbie Graham Busts the UFO Paradigm |358|

Discussion in 'Skeptiko Shows' started by Alex, Aug 22, 2017.

  1. David Eire

    David Eire New

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    What I mean is if they are coming here in 'nuts & bolts' craft they are just more advanced scientifically than we are
    But all the science we have today Alex, like our computers and airplanes etc still works, whether or not UFOs are made of nuts and bolts or made of some kind of plasma or whatever
    Also - if telepathy is a real phenomenon then it can be scientifically studied and understood and harnessed, just like any other real phenomenon
    By the way I dont have a fixed view as to what the UFO phenomenon is - although I do lead towards an interdimensional hypothesis
    I think your interest in UFOs and the interviews you do are fascinating and I think you do a great job - thanks
     
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  2. D.R.Alit

    D.R.Alit Member

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    If, as you say, the craft can leave traces this doesn't strike me as being too different to the scratch marks and other bodily marks that abductees can get. They are both physical effects from a phenomena that appears to be largely immaterial. And a vast majority of abductions stop when a person calls on Jesus. Why do you think that is? Could it be because they are spiritual phenomena. Most of the evidence indicates that this is what it is.
     
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  3. gabriel

    gabriel New

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    The UFO phenomenon is a weird one. 99% of claimed sightings and 99.9% of discussions on the topic are manifestly noise. Within the 1% there are objects that move without being subject to any physical restriction like gravity or aerodynamics. Reports by pilots strongly suggest at least some of the objects are "craft", that is to say they have a form with definite edges and usually some kind of lights. That throws up a contradiction, an object with technological characteristics and a recognisable taxonomy, but functioning outside any conceivable performance envelope we can imagine. It's like Dan Dare meets wave particle duality.

    It's hard to believe the phenomenon is terrestrial in nature, trickle down technology would be impossible for national defence to forego, so they are simulacra - some kind of holographic projection - unlikely given sightings pre-date the known tech, or they are from beyond. That could mean other planets, other dimensions or other times. Place your bets. The interplanetary theory is the most popular, but if that's the case alien activity is cryptic and inconsistent with their mode of transport. Why probe people in odd ways and behave like a B-movie monster when you could sample genetics from a thumb imprint on a passing leaf? I can't begin to think what another dimension is, at least a live and concurrent one, and we don't have even the most rudimentary tools to navigate such a concept intellectually. If time travel is a thing, it would open the possibility of living beings interacting with the present through the medium of a sealed object, perhaps for the safety of its crew or the inhabitants, but its complete guesswork.

    The least likely for me is little, grey, almond-eyed space men with a fondness for body cavity exploration swapping notes with big government.
     
  4. D.R.Alit

    D.R.Alit Member

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    I saw a turqiose alien with the same anatomical configurations as the greys but it was a she. A Spacewoman. That was in meditation. I've never been abducted or seen a UFO either.
     
  5. David Eire

    David Eire New

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    Excellent post K9 - thanks
    This book seems to be well worth having a look at
    I hope Alex will consider a discussion with Robbie Graham
     
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  6. David Eire

    David Eire New

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    For those who are interested in and/or skeptikal about the stories of Corey Goode and his blue avian saviors
    this review of his emergence and the development of his stories is pretty good
     
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  7. K9!

    K9! New

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    Well, Alex did talk to Robbie Graham, but I'd love to hear from some of the other featured authors from the book.
     
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  8. K9!

    K9! New

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    I think Kenneth Ring was way ahead of his time when he did a study to compare UFO experiencers to NDErs. The very fact that both groups have so much in common is incredibly important.
     
  9. KeithA

    KeithA New

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    Seems a fascinating book! And some very qualified people who praised the study (from the Amazon link).
    I really like the idea of holding off on what's going on with these object/events - just seems obvious to me. We are so very young technologically with only electrical/nuclear stuff over the last 150 and 60 years. And with official denial in science (though privately many scientists recognise the issue) of a spiritual component to existence, enquiry into this also is still so young. How can we but conclude we are babes with technology and some kind of spirituality just starting out?
    I'm really just thinking that with many intelligences surely of the order millions of years older than us, and older than each other (tremendous age gaps between themselves), then if there is visitation here, on Earth, we'd surely expect many different kinds of encounters between various kinds of them (with many kinds of mentalities and from God knows where) and, well, little us.
    Just a quote from the Introduction to the book ... To quote SMiles Lewis in this volume: “I advocate for a multi-theory interpretation of the UFO phenomenon. I don’t think there is any one explanation that accounts for all the data. I think there are a number of things going on simultaneously.”

    which got me thinking about this point.
     
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  10. David Eire

    David Eire New

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    Yes of course he did
    what was I thinking :eek:
     
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  11. David Eire

    David Eire New

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    Yes Humanity is just emerging from its infancy; just beginning; baby steps
    Now we have recently opened the Pandora's box of science I hope we dont destroy ourselves before we are older and wiser
    My best estimate is that any species that has made it past our present stage and become mature enough to create a truly integrated planetary civilisation
    and begin traveling to the stars will be very much more morally mature than we are today, as a species
    I dont think we will have anything to fear from them
    I think our greatest threat and enemy is ourselves
     
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  12. KeithA

    KeithA New

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    Ok, but who knows of their origins? Esp. many types. Perhaps they also have competing interests if MY apart in age from each other - does this mean they are moral to each other? As for Earth it seems visit purposes for any aliens would be 1. resources 2. scientific 3. educating us 4. interfering with us for our or their benefit. But maybe some huge religious implications if something "other" is so different it's even vastly beyond highly advanced aliens. Just some ideas.
     
  13. David Eire

    David Eire New

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    Another point about the ETH is that any species which can reach us over inter-stellar space is going to be so far ahead of us scientifically and technologically
    there would be nothing we could do about it if they were hostile
    But my guess is they are unlikely to be hostile because to get past the current stage humanity has reached in its development or evolution
    and to become capable of truly interstellar travel requires significant intellectual and moral maturity beyond where humanity is today

    I mean this in the sense that a species which is constantly at war with itself, as humanity has been in its recorded history
    And is poisoning its planetary biosphere as humanity has been doing since it began to develop its current form of capitalist globalised industrial civilisation
    Will be unlikely to reach the technological level necessary to be a truly interstellar species

    A simple example from our own history is to think of the great empires of the past which after initial expansion collapsed due to internal moral and system degeneration
    And bear in mind that today humanity is permanently a few minutes away from destroying itself completely with it nuclear arsenals

    The only way a species could reach the technological level of being a truly interstellar species would be to have put their own house in order first
    In other words to have matured sufficiently to be able to create a stable global civilisation that is sustainably integrated into its planetary biosphere
    In my opinion that is the primary challenge facing humanity in this century - to put its house or planetary home in order
    And I think it will require developing very different economic and political and production systems than we have today
     
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  14. Luce Allen Furr

    Luce Allen Furr Member

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    Couldn't they also be the ultimate predator? Their maturity could have been as a predator. Couldn't that impulse drive the same end-game?
     
  15. David Eire

    David Eire New

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    I dont think so; and I hope not... but of course I dont know

    Could you explain how such a species could arise and avoid destroying itself?
     
  16. Luce Allen Furr

    Luce Allen Furr Member

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    Do animal predator species on Earth destroy themselves? What qualities maintain their balance of killing so as to not disrupt the natural equilibrium? Could an intelligent species simply have these same qualities combined with intelligence? I think you are using a kind of "Star Trek" logic combined with wishful thinking.
     
  17. K9!

    K9! New

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  18. David Eire

    David Eire New

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    Well humanity is presently on the edge of destroying itself - that is one of my fundamental points above
    I dont know if you would regard humanity as an animal predator species?
    But if you do then you have your answer

    I think Star Trek paints an entirely improbable scenario vis a vis interstellar civilisations etc
    It presents quaint adventure tales in space very much modelled on present human political arrangements dressed up in sci-fi fantasy technology
    I dont think it is credible as a model for actual interstellar civilisation

    If we ever do make it to fully interstellar level I think it will be very different to Star Trek
    In fact one of the sources for my present understanding was the absurdity (to me) of the Klingons as an interstellar species
    A barbaric species like the Klingons would be too busy with all their macho stuff and beating each other up to get it together
     
  19. D.R.Alit

    D.R.Alit Member

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    Lucafer. I get it. Ho ho ho. Now, isn't there something better you could do with your time?
     
  20. Luce Allen Furr

    Luce Allen Furr Member

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    You're just mad because your acronym is so bad no one can figure it out. Let's try and keep the posts on the subject. Tell us more about those meditation aliens.
     

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