Russ Dizdar, Are Christians Less Wrong About Ritual Abuse? |440|

#21
There's nothing new about this technique. Shattering young minds, splitting them into parts where each part doesn't know the others. Where they can then be easily manipulated into doing one's bidding and later, have no recall of their actions. MK Ultra - nothing new... not new in any way to the Nazis for example.

If you can find it (as "they" do their best to keep this off the web), look up Janissaries - here's one veiled reference...
https://www.library.ucdavis.edu/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/Lang-Prize-2018-Grant-Rosinko-Project.pdf

Murad I created the Janissaries by taking non-Muslim boys as slaves during early childhood and isolated them into barracks where they trained for many years.
"trained for many years."

Broken and made into mind control slaves.

Some taken from their "other religion" families in raids to places like Wallachia. Vlad III (the House of Dracul) would capture and impale these Ottoman raiders as a message future raiders would encounter.
 

Alex

Administrator
#22
We certainly don't need more abuse victims with multiple personality disorder. I'm trying to figure out the mechanics of it. We may assume that the abuser is surrounded by evil spirits. When the victim under abuse goes into the unconscious state, that must be the opportunity for one or more of such demonic entities to enter the victims body and commandeer it on occasion. This same sort of phenomenon can occur to a normal person in his sleep in his house if it has a ghost in it. this is commonly referred to as "sleep walking". I've read that spirits are responsible for 95% of sleep walking cases. It is important to cleanse one's house of any spirit activity. You don't want to end up doing a life sentence for killing your entire family in your sleep as what happened in one famous case of sleep walking.
good, but don't you think we need to take a stab at what this means to be "surrounded by evil spirits." when you talk to the NDE folks you get the impression that this stuff doesn't matter... well, unless you talk to the folks who had a hellish NDE... whole other topic... but one that I'm really interested in exploring :) anyway, most of the nde people don't focus on this... same goes for the after-death communication folks and the between lives folks... for the most part it's all light and love and positive messages. so I'd just like to advance the ball a little bit in terms of understanding the other side.
 

Alex

Administrator
#23
Here’s a good one b/c they have references to follow:

“Besides his Ivy League connections in the United States, Epstein has recently poured money into Artificial Intelligence research abroad, namely the OpenCog research group in Hong Kong and MicroPsi Project 2 in Berlin. Forbes reported in 2013 that this AI research was targeted at the development of “radical emotional software.”
https://www.counterpunch.org/2019/07/15/jeffrey-epstein-and-the-collapse-of-europe/
got it... thx.
 

Alex

Administrator
#24
Alex,
I'm in a hurry so am rushing this response. My thoughts may be a little scattered. I have read those articles from Mint Press News. In fact, I am the one who brought them to your attention (around the time you had Sarah Westall on). Yes, there is a sort of intelligence agency--corporate big wig fusion that uses various methods, including blackmail, to trap individuals for various purposes. And sometimes they exploit people's predilections for illegal sexual wants. Of course, that is true. (And the Whitney Webb articles makes quite clear that this was going on well before the Operation Paperclip.) I think that series is full of excellent investigative reporting.
agreed... we're on the same page up to this point. but I think the evidence points to a strange bedfellows kind of phenomenon. allow me to float this wild, crazy, crackpot hypothesis... ... Please don't take this seriously... for entertainment purposes only ( obviously not but you get the qualifiers) -- when dennis hastert and john podesta develop a friendship over their shared interest in pedophilia they naturally became more interested in exploring eyes wide shut satanism.


I think we need another side of the story. I think you do need to have on Satanic Panic experts.
I referenced one above... but everyone seems to be missing the point of what this brown university professor published.

I think you do need to have on people who can show how unreliable recovered memory techniques are. I think you need to have on someone like Mitch Horowitz who can talk about the occult in ways that calms the hysteria surrounding this subject matter.
yes, I'm working on inviting mitch... just been a little backloged.
 

Alex

Administrator
#25
There's nothing new about this technique. Shattering young minds, splitting them into parts where each part doesn't know the others. Where they can then be easily manipulated into doing one's bidding and later, have no recall of their actions. MK Ultra - nothing new... not new in any way to the Nazis for example.

If you can find it (as "they" do their best to keep this off the web), look up Janissaries - here's one veiled reference...
https://www.library.ucdavis.edu/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/Lang-Prize-2018-Grant-Rosinko-Project.pdf



"trained for many years."

Broken and made into mind control slaves.

Some taken from their "other religion" families in raids to places like Wallachia. Vlad III (the House of Dracul) would capture and impale these Ottoman raiders as a message future raiders would encounter.
wow... mind blown.
 
#26
Generational MK Ultra victims -- Is this the same as generational UFO/alien contact? Generational cults? All of this seemed to ratchet up after WWII. Is this all part of the same thing? Are people saying that segments of the elites practice their own form of MKUltra on their children to groom them as "leaders?" I've heard that claim many times. All pre-modern cultures had initiatory practices that were like MKUltra BUT with a necessary spiritual component. Even some ancient rituals attempted their own versions of MKUltra. So, what does Nazi Germany have anything to do with any of this? Are they simply the first to study it on a scientific level? And now the U.S., via paperclip, does the same? Could the whole occult angle be, at times, misdirection away from the more sinister MKUltra angle? Where are the whistleblowers?

This is all entertaining fun, and I don't completely dismiss any of it, but spirit/human hybrids via ceremonial rituals? Sounds like a great story to build a reputation upon. Is this the same as spirit wives and husbands were hear about in faerie lore and the alleged hybrid children that sometimes formed? Is this the same as David Jacobs' story of the hubrids that are currently taking over humanity (he'd probably pit the number at 50 million worldwide as well)? Is this the same as the fifth-dimensional shift that is transforming humanity? The story of Niburu and the Annunakians that tinker with our DNA and create new humans? Are these simply all archetypal stories that some of us literalize? There is a lot that people can take seriously. It doesn't mean we should.

I don't think you have had Patrick Harpur on to talk about the daemonic realm. He has probably thought this out better than anyone. And he does interviews. He just doesn't get asked very often.

I don't think you've had on Ivy League-educated, certified psychiatrist (and instructor at Columbia) Dr. Richard Gallagher. He speaks of demonic possession and even helps with exorcisms if I remember correctly. Could be someone in the "Nature of Evil" series. I don't know enough about him to comment.
 
#27
enerational cults? All of this seemed to ratchet up after WWII. Is this all part of the same thing? Are people saying that segments of the elites practice their own form of MKUltra on their children to groom them as "leaders?"
Lots of questions there! I can’t tell if some of them are rhetorical, but just in the spirit of staying in the conversation, are you familiar with the work of Carl Abrahamsson? His work “Occulture: The Unseen Forces That Drive Culture Forward” gives some interesting points how this works, and the Germanic/Nazi origins. He doesn’t have your PhD Ivy League desired credentials, I don’t think, but manages to make some good points anyway.

“Sounds like great stories to build a reputation on?” Who is trying to build a reputation here exactly, you’ve lost me. Spirit/human hybrids, is that not the same as a god or an angle? How is this connected here please, I’d like to learn from your line of thinking here.

“Where are the whistleblowers?’ OK, you can’t possibly be serious with this one, so I won’t take that bait!
 
#28
Mishelle,

Lots of questions because I move fast. Yes, I am somewhat familiar with carl Abrahamsson and his ideas.

The point I was making in my "question section" is that post World War II we have similar themes: generational UFO contactee experiences; generational cults; generational MKUltra victims; generational satanists/luciferiansim/occultism claims -- (using Marge Gunderson voice) -- "It would be quite a coincidence if they weren't ... connected."

And my point about "great stories to build a reputation on" -- what I am saying is that a lot of showmen like, say, Aleister Crowley, make a lot of bold claims and spread rumors about themselves that may very well have been hyperbole. Maybe Parsons and others did the same about human/spirit hybrids? And I was simply following that up with its similarities between changelings and spirit wives/husbands and hubrids and alien-caused evolution and New Age fifth-dimensional shifts. I am unsure of how literal these are to be taken. I think bad thinking comes into play when we literalize any of this.

May I make a suggestion to you? Have you read the classic account of the daemonic world -- Patrick Harpur's Daemonic Reality? To me, it is by far the best account that I have read about this alternate reality.
 
#29
Lots of questions there! I can’t tell if some of them are rhetorical, but just in the spirit of staying in the conversation, are you familiar with the work of Carl Abrahamsson? His work “Occulture: The Unseen Forces That Drive Culture Forward” gives some interesting points how this works, and the Germanic/Nazi origins. He doesn’t have your PhD Ivy League desired credentials, I don’t think, but manages to make some good points anyway.

“Sounds like great stories to build a reputation on?” Who is trying to build a reputation here exactly, you’ve lost me. Spirit/human hybrids, is that not the same as a god or an angle? How is this connected here please, I’d like to learn from your line of thinking here.

“Where are the whistleblowers?’ OK, you can’t possibly be serious with this one, so I won’t take that bait!
Yes, where are the whistleb
Perhaps . . Kind of? This is proven, you can look at the work of whistleblowers Richard Grove who talks all about the back doors of software with William Binney. Firewalls and backdoors are all part of the rigged system.

As for where small town folk come into it, they don’t need access to the same resources, they only need access to one person who does have access. You can look at an example like Mena, Arkansas to see how the small and big time corruption is in a kind of feedback loop. A tiny mountain town of 5,000 implicated at every level in the drug/weapons running of the Iran-Contra ‘scandal’ (criminal conspiracy). It’s very easy for someone ‘in the know’ to spot a potential collaborator. Ever tried to find crack in your local small town? You probably could not, but an addict could within a day, I guarantee it, they know the lingo, where to look, how to act.
I know
Perhaps . . Kind of? This is proven, you can look at the work of whistleblowers Richard Grove who talks all about the back doors of software with William Binney. Firewalls and backdoors are all part of the rigged system.

As for where small town folk come into it, they don’t need access to the same resources, they only need access to one person who does have access. You can look at an example like Mena, Arkansas to see how the small and big time corruption is in a kind of feedback loop. A tiny mountain town of 5,000 implicated at every level in the drug/weapons running of the Iran-Contra ‘scandal’ (criminal conspiracy). It’s very easy for someone ‘in the know’ to spot a potential collaborator. Ever tried to find crack in your local small town? You probably could not, but an addict could within a day, I guarantee it, they know the lingo, where to look, how to act.
I guess I don't understand your point about Binney. Because backdoors can be built into systems (like we saw in the Inslaw scandal), that's their way in? Is this metaphor or literal?

Not seeing the point about Mena. The stuff going on in Mena did not have operations in every small town and major city in the country. Isn't that the basic claim being made by people like Westall and Dizdar -- segments of the population operating in secret doing the horrible occult things they do? I'm not buying it. I'm not buying an MKUltra connection to it -- at least not with the numbers being claimed -- sure isolated incidents but not millions of people. I certainly do not buy some international secret society pedophile occultist cabal with cells existing in every small town and major city. That leaves some kind of daemonic/demonic/spirit connection that is running the show here. And while I don't rule it out, I certainly remain skeptical. Why not bring David Jacobs and his hubrid theory into this story? It makes as much sense as the other stuff. How about Revelations LITERALLY coming true, with the Demiurge/Yahweh trying to break into this world along with his Fallen Angels (which make up the daemonic realm) - pissed off disembodied souls looking to raise hell. Maybe these are the forces whispering in scientists' ears on how to make the perfect AI system that can bring them fully into reality (if we want to bring transhumanism into the picture).
 
#30
May I make a suggestion to you? Have you read the classic account of the daemonic world -- Patrick Harpur's Daemonic Reality? To me, it is by far the best account that I have read about this alternate realit
No, I’ve not read it. But, unlike you, I don’t find this stuff to be ‘all entertaining fun.’ I don’t find it fun even remotely. Is this book ‘fun’? Thanks for the suggestion, I’ll look into it, but not in order to be entertained.

I didn’t get the impression Westall and Dizdar are stating it’s happening in every single small town around the globe. I get suspicious when folks say it’s not happening at all, which is where most folks are at, because they watch the MSM. I do think evil is running the show here, yes. I don’t think it takes a lot for evil to run the show, just for the majority to turn a blind eye to it, which they do. Would David Jacobs try to convince us there is not ‘some international secret society pedophile occultist cabal with cells existing in every small town and major city’? I’d be up for that! I’d prefer to believe that actually, if preferences mean anything.

Do you think it’s possible that millions of people today are mind controlled?
 
#34
No, I’ve not read it. But, unlike you, I don’t find this stuff to be ‘all entertaining fun.’ I don’t find it fun even remotely. Is this book ‘fun’? Thanks for the suggestion, I’ll look into it, but not in order to be entertained.

I didn’t get the impression Westall and Dizdar are stating it’s happening in every single small town around the globe. I get suspicious when folks say it’s not happening at all, which is where most folks are at, because they watch the MSM. I do think evil is running the show here, yes. I don’t think it takes a lot for evil to run the show, just for the majority to turn a blind eye to it, which they do. Would David Jacobs try to convince us there is not ‘some international secret society pedophile occultist cabal with cells existing in every small town and major city’? I’d be up for that! I’d prefer to believe that actually, if preferences mean anything.

Do you think it’s possible that millions of people today are mind controlled?
Who says I am not taking this seriously? That's in your head. I take all of this seriously. I just don't think it is as wide-spread and pronounced as some on this site. And yes, Daemonic Reality is a serious book but it is whimsical as well, much like a poem by William Wordsworth. But you won't find a better investigation and understanding of the spiritual phenomena. It is for the open-minded only.

I do get the impression that Westall/Dizdar think this is extremely widespread. Westall became a convert to the cause, as she tells it, by "investigating" the Jacob Wetterling case in St. Joseph, MN, which was a town of fewer than 3000 people when the crime took place. If you believe her, that town is full of pedophile occultists who were powerful enough to stop an FBI investigation. Both have made claims of "millions of people" involved in "this thing." Dizdar quoted others who believed over 50 million people were somehow involved. And Jacobs would laugh at the secret pedophile cabal. He'd just say it was hubrid aliens instead.
 
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#36
I know what people who only look through a conspiracy lens would say, but I am not one of those people. Nor am I someone who dismisses or cynically debunks the conspiratorial simply because it is conspiratorial.

One problem from the video is that the commentary is pretending to be helpful, when in reality, it mostly leads the viewer down a belief system they want you to share. It isn't an honest approach. The video is also highly edited and offers zero context towards what is going on -- the written commentary provides the context. Where did they get that context? Not from the video I watched. The word "Illuminati" is written on the screen throughout (which indicates clear bias). Music and eerie sound effects were also added as a way to heighten the emotion of the video. I also think the translation is wrong at times (the word ritual is provided on an occasion when that clearly is not the world being spoken).

What is said in the video? She says that something was filmed that is like S&M but not as superficial (you are held down so you don't fight and go mad) as it comes from a real place and that you heal once you are beaten. She then mentions her tattoos and talks about how they also come from a real place. Then she talks about a film where you can see everyone's sexuality and how she now has compromising evidence. We hear descriptions of nipple twisting, dripping camera wax (on genitals, assumably). Jolie then says something about her snake and how she tried but had to kill him.

I think whoever made this video and posted it on youtube is the person doing the magic. They are trying to seduce you into a viewpoint of how the illuminati controls Hollywood and the world via their dark, sexual, twisted secret society.
 
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#38
So, the Christian Jesus/God is not real but the Christian Satan is? Where exactly are we going here,CALYPTICAlex?
Among scholars it is agreed that Satan is often just a word that is shorthand for demons (just as "Google it" stands for "do a search"). It would help to use the word demons, instead of Satan. Every civilization prior to the Enlightenment / secularization had a concept of demons--called by different names. Some still do, e.g., many Muslims fear jinns.
 
#39
Among scholars it is agreed that Satan is often just a word that is shorthand for demons (just as "Google it" stands for "do a search"). It would help to use the word demons, instead of Satan. Every civilization prior to the Enlightenment / secularization had a concept of demons--called by different names. Some still do, e.g., many Muslims fear jinns.
I can understand this. One thing that bothers me about this, however, is that - thanks to the dichotomy our culture has been stuck in for forever - when we bring up one side, we unwittingly invoke the other. For instance, today on the Drudge Report, Drudge has several links about purported demonic activity and explicitly links its cure with Christianity (Catholicism, specifically) and implies that its cause lies in "witchcraft." Further up on his page, Drudge has been coupling links about the corona virus with news about the locust plagues in Africa. Today, he has posted a link to an article where a Christian minister is claiming the two are part of the fulfillment of New Testament prophecy that Jesus is about to return.
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As a culture, we have a real problem with discussing this subject of evil without almost, wholesale, invoking evangelical/fundamentalist/traditionalist forms of Christianity. Even on Skeptiko, when one particular tradition might be turned to in order to get a better understanding of evil (i.e., Magic) it is frequently identified exclusively with a very particular narrative related to Aleister Crowley and, thereby, dismissed out of hand as having anything informative to say (which, I'd argue, it does). If we really want to get past being "stuck on stupid" we need to get past this whole Christianity-Demonic Evil dichotomy, and that takes some hard work and conscious effort, because several times lately I've come away from Skeptiko episodes wondering what the take away is supposed to be. It is helpful to develop a sound theory about these things but we might also be benefited by an informed praxis. If we're gonna scare the devil out of ourselves, we need to know how to appropriately respond. Thus far we have developed a (I'd say well deserved) skeptical view of Christianity, at least as it operates in the culture, but if we don't turn to the church or the local priest for solace in these matters, then we must have our own means - and in spite of Crowley being a bogeyman with a big shadow cast over all of magic and the occult - there is much more to the hermetic tradition than this one disreputable man. I hope to see the western esoteric tradition get a fairer shake on Skeptiko and I'd like to see someone who can really speak intelligently on the subject (perhaps John Michael Greer again?) brought on to discuss this.
 
#40
I can understand this. One thing that bothers me about this, however, is that - thanks to the dichotomy our culture has been stuck in for forever - when we bring up one side, we unwittingly invoke the other. For instance, today on the Drudge Report, Drudge has several links about purported demonic activity and explicitly links its cure with Christianity (Catholicism, specifically) and implies that its cause lies in "witchcraft." Further up on his page, Drudge has been coupling links about the corona virus with news about the locust plagues in Africa. Today, he has posted a link to an article where a Christian minister is claiming the two are part of the fulfillment of New Testament prophecy that Jesus is about to return.
View attachment 1519
As a culture, we have a real problem with discussing this subject of evil without almost, wholesale, invoking evangelical/fundamentalist/traditionalist forms of Christianity. Even on Skeptiko, when one particular tradition might be turned to in order to get a better understanding of evil (i.e., Magic) it is frequently identified exclusively with a very particular narrative related to Aleister Crowley and, thereby, dismissed out of hand as having anything informative to say (which, I'd argue, it does). If we really want to get past being "stuck on stupid" we need to get past this whole Christianity-Demonic Evil dichotomy, and that takes some hard work and conscious effort, because several times lately I've come away from Skeptiko episodes wondering what the take away is supposed to be. It is helpful to develop a sound theory about these things but we might also be benefited by an informed praxis. If we're gonna scare the devil out of ourselves, we need to know how to appropriately respond. Thus far we have developed a (I'd say well deserved) skeptical view of Christianity, at least as it operates in the culture, but if we don't turn to the church or the local priest for solace in these matters, then we must have our own means - and in spite of Crowley being a bogeyman with a big shadow cast over all of magic and the occult - there is much more to the hermetic tradition than this one disreputable man. I hope to see the western esoteric tradition get a fairer shake on Skeptiko and I'd like to see someone who can really speak intelligently on the subject (perhaps John Michael Greer again?) brought on to discuss this.
Extremely well said Philemon. Greer would be a perfect choice to jolt another perspective into Skeptiko.
 
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