Russ Dizdar, Are Christians Less Wrong About Ritual Abuse? |440|

#81
What I have believed for a long time now is that there is some kind of sociopathic defect within humanity. Maybe that defect can be good for a warrior class or in some other capacity I am not thinking of, but it is anything but good in the world of civilization. I think the work of Jack Forbes (Columbus and Other Cannibals) and even some of the recent work of Dr. Hayden (who has been on the show) points us in a better direction. I think in societies that are much more egalitarian in nature (most probably would be an animist-type religion, but not all), these defective sociopaths are kept in check. There are no excess storage or personal possessions that they can accumulate or weaponize for power. Their wedge was hidden knowledge. Hayden believes that secret societies popped up by these sociopaths for this very reason and these sociopaths eventually were able to influence the larger society

In egalitarian societies, if sociopathic people acted out of line, they were brought into the woods and killed or exiled. Tough, but necessary. But when societies become more sedentary it brought in food storage and social stratification and hierarchy into their way of life, and those defective sociopaths shot to the top of the power pyramid and become much of the ruling class/elites. These sociopaths transformed society to think like them as best as they can, took over other societies (become warring tribes and then states and then empires) and implemented their way of living so that other defective beings could rise to the top (and I am not even sure that most sociopaths would even want this competition but freeing up more sociopaths became an externality). In this way, evil spread like a virus from one society to the next as these tribes and civilizations are conquered. Sometimes these defective beings would rise to the top independently and simultaneously in other parts of the globe as civilization popped up elsewhere. So, I believe hierarchy, civilization, and modern forms of capitalism and fascism to be the natural progression of such societies that rise us from this evi -- as is ecocide, genocide, etc, especially when this evil is culturally and bureaucratically normalized. This is the baseline, I believe, of evil.

Now, does the daemonic realm have a role in this evil? Yes. But not like so many commenters think. I don't wish to spend all sorts of time on this right now as it is its own subject. Does MKUltra and trauma play a role? Yeah. But I don't think it is the great success story that so many think on this site. But I will admit, I am completely open-minded on how both of these aspects could play a larger role in evil today. But, I think we too often ignore the most important part -- the defective "genes" that create these selfish sociopaths. And no, I don't think there is some giant cabal of human or nonhuman pedophile rapist psychopaths. I don't think one group of people is running the show. It is a bunch of transnational corporate capitalists (mostly) that invest in one another because that is the best way to make money. Today their biggest money makers are in privatizing the commons and public works, investing in the military and military technology (and also buying up media outlets to push wars and privatize everything). This is the evil we face. And it is these people's agendas that envelop the world around us.
 
Last edited:
#82
More of relevance from DD:

Jean-Marc Connerotte, the original judge presiding on the case, broke down in tears and spoke about shadowy figures determined to stop the full truth from getting out.
In an interview with Der Spiegel after being paroled, Dutroux’s handler Michel Nihoul bragged,
“I control the government. … Everyone has compromising dossiers on one another, to be used as leverage in the right situation. … This is the Belgian disease. …
“Give me another 20,000 marks, and I give you a serving minister who is embroiled in a murder. … I know the killer and will have him contact the minister by telephone. You can listen along, okay?
“[Voice recorder turned off. For a 6-digit sum] I will give you a picture on which then Prince Albert jumps a 16-year-old girl. Naked. Shot at the second floor of the Mirano Club 20 years ago [where a pedophile blackmail ring allegedly was situated, according to other witnesses]. … Then I do have to leave Belgium.”

“The Institute for the Study of Globalization and Covert Politics (ISGP) offers a lengthy reportabout the Dutroux case as well as background about child rape, satanic ritual sacrifice, snuff films and other horrors. There is a nasty mix of pedophiles, Satanists and organized crime involved in kidnapping and trafficking victims. In 2010, it resurfaced that the Catholic Church was involved in some manner when a huge trove of Dutroux documents and photos were discovered in the home of an archbishop. Many were court documents, some claiming the Leige Jewish Mafia was involved.

e I believe the Epstein case is essential, I think it is useless when it comes to the outlandish claims made by Westall, Dizdar. Webb's articles are based on facts, nuance, and historical understanding. Westall, Dizdar seem more circumstantial and anecdotal
Fair enough. Which outlandish claims shall we address first, please, be specific.
 
#83
How do I know more about global logistics behind secret black ops? I don't. My point was: neither do you. I think Mena is a poor example and have provided plenty of reasons why. But that is simply my opinion.
You are right, Mena is a very sore spot for me, because I lived there, and my father now owns that airport.
I bring baggage, that’s true, if I’m allowing that to shadow my reason, please, bring that to light for me in a private correspondence, so we don’t further interrupt the scheduled programming.

EDIT: ‘owns’ should be in quotes, sorry.
 
#84
I don't think one group of people is running the show. It is a bunch of transnational corporate capitalists (mostly) that invest in one another because that is the best way to make money. Today their biggest money makers are in privatizing the commons and public works, investing in the military and military technology (and also buying up media outlets to push wars and privatize everything). This is the evil we face. And it is these people's agendas that envelop the world around us.
Amen! And I’d like to add that these corporatists have managed to hijack traditional religious/patriotic mythemes in order to benefit from the power and legitimacy that they confer and utilize that power to more greatly solidify their position as an unquestionable authority. For instance, a lot of the rural poor and middle class would benefit immensely from Bernie’s policies, but because these folks’ psyches are so imprinted by the sword and the cross one need only suggest that “Democratic socialism=socialism=communism” in order to activate the “unamerican/unchristian” psycho-immunological allergy response. These folks are also strongly allied with paternalistic power structures which are also allergic to ideas of community and cooperation.

Which is a sort of tragicomedy considering early Christianity appears to have been heavy on communal sharing - even to the point of executing and excommunicating the non-compliant.

Now it is Trump who is the Christian and Bernie who is the antichrist. Go figure!
 
#85
Amen! And I’d like to add that these corporatists have managed to hijack traditional religious/patriotic mythemes in order to benefit from the power and legitimacy that they confer and utilize that power to more greatly solidify their position as an unquestionable authority. For instance, a lot of the rural poor and middle class would benefit immensely from Bernie’s policies, but because these folks’ psyches are so imprinted by the sword and the cross one need only suggest that “Democratic socialism=socialism=communism” in order to activate the “unamerican/unchristian” psycho-immunological allergy response. These folks are also strongly allied with paternalistic power structures which are also allergic to ideas of community and cooperation.

Which is a sort of tragicomedy considering early Christianity appears to have been heavy on communal sharing - even to the point of executing and excommunicating the non-compliant.

Now it is Trump who is the Christian and Bernie who is the antichrist. Go figure!
I couldn't have said it better!
 
#86
For instance, a lot of the rural poor and middle class would benefit immensely from Bernie’s policies, but because these folks’ psyches are so imprinted by the sword and the cross one need only suggest that “Democratic socialism=socialism=communism” in order to activate the “unamerican/unchristian” psycho-immunological allergy response.
That’s pretty good! I totally agree, they would benefit immensely and they are totally mind controlled by the Right/Left dichotomous MSM.

From which of Bernie’s policies would they most benefit? I know a lot of rural poor, and they don’t really identify with Bernie, considering he’ s nearly as wealthy as the rest of the crew. How can I sell Bernie to my neighbors? And how is this relevant to this particular thread?
 
#87
I don't think one group of people is running the show. It is a bunch of transnational corporate capitalists (mostly) that invest in one another because that is the best way to make money. Today their biggest money makers are in privatizing the commons and public works, investing in the military and military technology (and also buying up media outlets to push wars and privatize everything). This is the evil we face. And it is these people's agendas that envelop the world around us.
Those who own the military and major global corporations are “One Group”. The governments and transnational corporate oligarch are one group, you are under their control. Try to do one thing against them.
 
#88
And how is this relevant to this particular thread?
:D Well, maybe it's a little tangential. I'm splitting my attention between completely unrelated forums at the same time and perhaps that's just a little bleed-over. However, I really do see a link - basically that in this episode we have Dizdar, a Christian minister, conferring power upon himself and receiving legitimacy to speak on this topic by tapping into the Christian/Good - Occult/Evil dichotomy that is a basic and early worldview installation in American culture. It's instant authority. He doesn't have to work as hard to prove his points, he doesn't have to shower us with as many various bits of evidence one after another, his arguments needn't be as lucid. In fact, the audience is suspect if they are not already on his side. Who wouldn't already be taking his position aside from some evil, nosferatu-looking occultist? And, in spite of the fact he mentioned the importance of being able to differentiate a pentacle from a pentagram, he doesn't demonstrate his own ability to do so! In fact, by the way he discusses the matter, I'd guess he doesn't actually know the difference himself.

The Bernie/Trump (and now Bloomberg/Clinton) thing is relevant because it shows how tribalism that is activated through use of fetishes/totems/symbols (like the sword and cross) provides instant and powerful access to tribal loyalties lurking deep in the cultural psyche. We're talking in this thread of being able to manipulate people through activation of trauma-imposed suggestion. Well, I'd argue that two-thousand years of Christian imperialism is one of the biggest traumas perpetrated on nearly the entire world. We are all in danger of responding zombie-like to those who would use that trauma against us, politically or otherwise. That's the relevance, if you're willing to receive it.
 
#89
Those who own the military and major global corporations are “One Group”. The governments and transnational corporate oligarch are one group, you are under their control. Try to do one thing against them.
No, it is NOT one group. It is many different groups that sometimes work together and sometimes not. Since they have accumulated so much wealth and power they often agree because it is in their best interest to do so. But I promise you that there is not one-world government/military like so many think in the conspiracy realm (today we see the John Bircher trope that one-world gov't via the UN is the attempt, which is just silly, sloppy, emotional thinking). Oligarchs tend to hate one another but support policy that makes sure they keep their power (like those massive tax cuts for super-rich enacted by Trump admin) .
 
#90
From which of Bernie’s policies would they most benefit?
Several. 1) Medicare for all would help them and a lot of others in untold ways. All of us would be able to be more free and mobile in terms of career selection. If one is being abused or taken advantage of in the workplace, you could leave and seek other work without fear that you'd incur medical costs you couldn't afford. I am a straight man, but that didn't stop me from being both sexually harassed (by both men and women) and otherwise subjected to a hostile workplace on more than one occasion. I would have been able to leave if it weren't for my (and my wife's) healthcare having been tethered to my continued employment. 2) Medical debt forgiveness which is self-explanatory in how it would be helpful. 3) Tuition-free college would make higher education accessible to the rural poor, which would assist them in individuating out from under the patriarchal sword and cross egregore that keeps them feeding it with their precious scarce life-force. Their current worldview can only be dismantled with education. Without that education there is no hope of overcoming the fear-based adherence that keeps them working against their own best interests (this is a hard sell and will come off as patronizing, and I don't know how to get around that - recall Obama's comment that these folks cling to their religion and their guns and you'll see how pointing it out makes them cling all the harder).

I know a lot of rural poor, and they don’t really identify with Bernie, considering he’ s nearly as wealthy as the rest of the crew.
He's not nearly as wealthy as Bloomberg or Trump. Not anywhere in the same league. Some of us could acquire the kind of wealth Bernie has, but, statistically speaking, none of us could ever acquire the wealth of a Trump or Bloomberg. That type of wealth is raw power and it is a zero-sum kind of power that, because they have it, we do not have it. They literally disempower us by having that sort of wealth.

How can I sell Bernie to my neighbors?
I feel weird posting a link to a Ralph Nader commentary in order to address this, but you could do worse than some of his arguments: https://www.commondreams.org/views/2020/02/15/democratic-socialism-bring-it-corporate-socialists

Plutocracy and oligarchy are NOT democracy. That's one last thought that occurs to me. For people who want to maintain their sense of being patriots, I would think this would be a discrepancy worth pointing out. A real freedom-loving patriot doesn't allow the tyranny of the rich to determine the course of their lives. This threat is already active and working upon us. It's so insidious it's difficult to point out. That's all I got for now.
 
#91
But I promise you that there is not one-world government/military like so many think in the conspiracy realm (today we see the John Bircher trope that one-world gov't via the UN is the attempt, which is just silly, sloppy, emotional thinking). Oligarchs tend to hate one another but support policy that makes sure they keep their power (like those massive tax cuts for super-rich enacted by Trump admin) .
I don’t resonate with promises, I need proof. I get it usually, when it comes to deceptions. I agree that the ‘Oligarchs’ are not ‘all one’ — my guess is now the .01 percent are about to squash the 1%. I like this battle, I just wish there weren’t so many innocents sacrificed for their aims.

Do you think the world works by anything other than silly, sloppy, emotional thinking?! Are we safer if the Oligarchs hate each other?
 
#92
He's not nearly as wealthy as Bloomberg or Trump. Not anywhere in the same league.
My neighbors are mostly on government aid, it really doesn’t make any difference to them if he’s a multi-millionaire with 4 houses or a elite billionaire with half a continent and 5 yachts.
 
#93
The Bernie/Trump (and now Bloomberg/Clinton) thing is relevant because it shows how tribalism that is activated through use of fetishes/totems/symbols (like the sword and cross) provides instant and powerful access to tribal loyalties lurking deep in the cultural psyche. We're talking in this thread of being able to manipulate people through activation of trauma-imposed suggestion
Got it. Think there’s loads to unpack here.
I’ve been gravitating toward individuation and creativity to separate myself from the crowd consciousness that imposes this mindset. I think, therefore I create, sort of worldview. I’ve had a lot of inspiration from Michael Tsarion’s research on this front:

“So in one sense reality leans toward us, yielding to our gaze and Will to Meaning. This is why Rand explicitly deals with the differences between low and high art. Her point is that the world has no inherent meaning or value beyond what a mind attributes to it. Weak, lazy, uninspired types project no meaning upon the world, preferring to live as uncreative consumer-types utterly disinterested in the numinous encounter between Self and World and all it implies. If creativity appears at all, it's usually that of other people, there to merely decorate one's inauthentic and largely vacuous life.
http://www.michaeltsarion.com/art--imagination.html
According to Rand and Branden, such a type lacks true individuality and independence. Consequently they are bound to value the voice of the masses and depend on the will of the necrophilous Crowd. Any direction or inspiration received and felt comes from external sources. Meaning is never generated from within.”
 
#94
Got it. Think there’s loads to unpack here.
I’ve been gravitating toward individuation and creativity to separate myself from the crowd consciousness that imposes this mindset. I think, therefore I create, sort of worldview.
Me too. This is hard work. Exhausting, actually. How is the process going for you?

I’ve been working in this vein for a long time and while I know I’m not where I began I don’t know if I’m any closer to any sort of final endpoint. I have greater facility with seeing things from different perspectives, I’m less rigid, but... You know, I was 24 or so when I first discovered Skeptiko, now I’m 37. Back then, I assumed there was a finish line where you had it all figured out, even if that was only in states of extended consciousness or near-death. However, as much overlap as there may be in the accounts of experiencers, we see there is not perfect overlap. There doesn’t seem to be a means to be sure that one has “THE ANSWER.” The 37yo me is slightly better able to accept the ambiguity than my younger self, but only slightly

Thank you for this. Looks very interesting!
 
Last edited:
#95
My neighbors are mostly on government aid, it really doesn’t make any difference to them if he’s a multi-millionaire with 4 houses or a elite billionaire with half a continent and 5 yachts.
According to the very first Google hit for "How much is Bernie Sanders worth?" he has a net worth of $2 Million: https://www.thestreet.com/lifestyle/bernie-sanders-net-worth-14678955

According to to the NY Post:
A new study has found that in 2018, there were 11.8 million households in the United States with a net worth of more than $1 million, making up 3 percent of the US population.
https://nypost.com/2019/03/14/the-us-has-more-millionaires-than-greece-has-people/

So, while Bernie is perhaps among the 3% we should be careful to compare him to Bloomberg, who, according to Wikipedia, is worth $61.8 billion:
this made him the ninth-richest person in the United States and the 12th-richest person in the world.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Bloomberg

I'm nobody special and I've met people in person who have more money than Bernie. Not naming names, but I think there's likely people on this forum who are worth as much or more than Bernie. Compared to Bloomberg (who is vastly wealthier than Trump, btw, who is apparently worth only 5% of Bloomberg at $3.1 billion: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wealth_of_Donald_Trump) Bernie is a pauper. That $2 million is, for sure, nice, but it's not unheard of (there’s likely someone in most American towns who is worth that much) and it's definitely not enough to buy people off and impose your will upon the world.
 
Last edited:
#96
Lots of questions there! I can’t tell if some of them are rhetorical, but just in the spirit of staying in the conversation, are you familiar with the work of Carl Abrahamsson? His work “Occulture: The Unseen Forces That Drive Culture Forward” gives some interesting points how this works, and the Germanic/Nazi origins. !
thx... looks interesting. queued :)
 
#97
I don’t resonate with promises, I need proof. I get it usually, when it comes to deceptions. I agree that the ‘Oligarchs’ are not ‘all one’ — my guess is now the .01 percent are about to squash the 1%. I like this battle, I just wish there weren’t so many innocents sacrificed for their aims.

Do you think the world works by anything other than silly, sloppy, emotional thinking?! Are we safer if the Oligarchs hate each other?
There is zero proof for a one-world corporation/military/banking system. Look up the various corporate charters. These corporations have varying levels of power but they are not one entity. And if you think we are under one giant banking system, well, there are dominant banking systems in the world, with the U.S. and Europe controlling the biggest. But this system has its "enemies" -- Iran, Syria, Russia, China, Hezbollah, Venezuela, Bolivia, Cuba, etc. Some of these countries are aligned and some are not meaning there are multiple banking and trade system "teams." And while the dominant military force is the U.S. military and its allies in NATO, there are plenty of "noncompliant" militaries around the world (and even some nations that are practically military-less).

In this time of late-stage capitalism, the rich are getting richer and the poor are getting poorer as late-stage capitalism funnels as much wealth from the around the world up into the top tenth of 1% while the professional classes are bribed into obedience with shiny toys and promises of utopia and progress. But working to change things locally within politics and building alternatives to structures in place is still quite possible and feasible if people just realized how possible it was. Part of the issue is the conditioning -- people have a much easier time imagining the end of the world than they do an end to the dominant economic structure in place (capitalism, here).

Philemon talks about how religious thinking has dominated and conditioned the minds of so many in that they are willing to vote in people who do not have their interests in mind. But there are also secular or civic religions that have taken hold of our thoughts as well. Progress dominates all aspects of culture, perhaps especially liberals, so that people believe that humans climbed out of the swamps and are headed to the stars. Science fiction books, comics, and movies have become the gospel for many (much like its variation manifest destiny used the Bible and then Darwin to make similar claims). Humanity is automatically on this linear path of betterment. It may take a stumble here and there (voting in the wrong person, too much religious influence in this institution, etc) but science and technology and rational thought and efficiency will ensure that all problems will be solved as we head towards utopia. Another religion that conditions us is American Exceptionalism (as well as the patriotic jingoism that comes with it). Here, we have Americans believing that it is America's duty to police the world and make it a better place. Of course we say what "better" is sometimes in our own image and sometimes not). All political parties and foreign policy ideas have completely bought into this.

Now, really, many civic religions are variations of two schools of Christian thought (I have simplified these):
1) Utopia -- we had paradise, Humanity fell, humans lived in sin until Jesus came - he died, rose from the dead, and brought us into a new world that will eventually progress into a utopian new jerusalem when he comes back.
2)Apocalypse -- -- we had paradise, humanity fell -- despite Jesus rising from the dead -- things will get worse and worse and worse until everything goes to shit and out of the remains, the saved, with jesus, will form a utopia that is the new jerusalem.

From communism, to radical environmentalism, to capitalism, to progress, to 5th dimensional shifts, to hubrid takeovers, to revelations-type apocalypses, to climate change catastrophe -- these ALL take elements from one of the two versions of Christianity above. That is how steeped in Christianity our culture is.
 
#98
IMO, "the good" and "the evil" reside within us and are determined by us subjectively. The moment someone suggests there's an objective good or objective evil, they are actually making an argument for an implementation of an authoritarian structure to make final calls about what each are and to enforce violations of such, all too often in the name of some "God" thingie which always results in casualties - something I subjectively conclude as evil.

IMO, we are in relationship with an aspect of ourselves that I (and others) refer to as The Phenomenon which appears to each differently. The form of appearance is a co-created form that involves the individual, their sub-conscious, the collective unconscious (which houses the popular cultural forms of that time and place and "groupifications via shared affinities"). Where all the fun begins is in how each of us interpret our interactions with The Phenomenon, then form conclusions and then bolster (and enhance) an existing paradigm or create a brand new new paradigm (almost always this involves some type of psycho-religious dynamic).

The Phenomenon likely has been with us for a very, very long time. Understanding this and manipulating the dynamics of this was not invented by Nazis. For example, the practice of human sacrifice is known to have been practiced thousands of years ago. This is an example of where a culturally accepted paradigm, human activity based upon it and the form of manifestation of The Phenomenon combine to generate a mass energetic feedback loop that increases the intensity of life and thus drives life forward. Fear is just as important as love and meaning with regards to maintaining the life force. Again, just my opinion... I know I am not alone in considering all of this in the fashion I just tried to articulate but I know that I am in an infinitesimally small minority.
 
#99
There is zero proof for a one-world corporation/military/banking system.
I guess we are not on topic here, but just to clarify b/c I’ve said they are ‘one group’ and then contradicted that a bit. What I mean to say is they are one based on their position at the top of they pyramid, I do understand they are not one as in one big happy cooperative family unit.

If you’ve not read U.N. Agenda 21/2030/2050 and the plans of ‘the oligarchs’ for the Smart regions and cities that explains a lot about the plans they have for the corporation called the U.S. The works of Rothkopf, like Superclass, mentioned above, as well as the now well-known classics by C.Quigley demonstrate unequivocally the cooperation happening at that level of the global game and resource grab. When capitalism falls they will be well-positioned to never have to fight the peasants again.
 
Top