Sarah Westall, Trafficking/Blackmail Cycle of Evil |410|

#41
John Brisson, your argument is ludicrous while you misquote me and exaggerate my comments to make yours seem reasonable. I didn't say either of these things.

I know the US political system is run by a sordid group of foul-minded violent scum that does what it likes, has the rest of the world under permanent threat and pulling strings in any country it can get a military base. No prizes for spotting that. I can't vote in the US election but still have to live with seeing what they do. I have little hope but that Sarah Westall is doing her bit and men will start teaching others to behave better.

Obviously this is a subject that stirs up strong feeling, as it should, but you won't achieve anything shouting about me. Except perhaps make me reluctant to follow this forum. How about you channel your significant energy and well-informed data towards the actual perpetrators.

I know you're going to respond angrily whatever I say, it's possibly your default position, and I'm sure we'd never be friends, so let's drop it, unless you (probably) want the last word. Go ahead, I'll ignore it.
I am sorry if I misjudged you by your words. It is difficult to get a person's total point across when typing. I am not shouting, if I was shouting I would type in all caps.

I do agree that an issue in our modern world is that men do not hold other men accountable anymore, it is a real issue.

Women do also commit heinous acts as well, per statistics it is almost about equal to men. Women also molest, I know people personally that were molested by female family members. There are many cases in the 1980's and 1990's that involved women, in fact it is more overlooked in society, IMO.

There is toxic masculinity as much as their is toxic femininity, just as much as there are good parts of both as well.
 
#42
As someone who has researched the Jacob Wetterling case, I was surprised I had never heard of this woman. I did some research and found out that she (and others) had reached out to the lead producer/narrator/journalist (Madelaine Baran, I believe) of In The Dark, a pretty remarkable podcast series that goes over the Wetterling case and all of its bungling. I highly recommend it to listeners. Madelaine does not tread down the dark tunnels that Sarah goes down. Sarah and some of her cronies working that case in the "alternative" media claimed to have major interest from Madelaine. Madelaine even allegedly grabbed numerous interviews from Sarah and her cronies and promised to use them in a podcast. But that never happened. Soon after, the case became "solved" and Madelaine stopped returning calls.

I have reached out to Madelaine about Sarah and why her material was not used and hope to hear her take. Even at that time, Sarah was pretty far down the conspiracy rabbit hole with the case. I am not judging, simply stating the facts. And I will be honest, anyone that can be duped by (what I believe to be) the Q psyop is the highly manipulatable type. Perhaps we all are. But it leads me to not be able to trust her, nor "star witness" to pedophilia claims, Jimmy Boots, who comes across, to me, as another Ted Gunderson (Franklin Scandal guy who was probably an anonymous source for much of Nick Bryant's questionable research job). In fact, Sarah posts the absolutely atrocious work of Kevin Annett, who has more than a wild imagination and has been debunked by plenty of great researchers and even many indigenous victims.

I find much of the satanic pedophilia to be mass delusions by Christians, lapsed Christians, New Agers, and those who may be non-Christian but continue to look through a predominantly Christian framework (welcome to America). I see isolated cases, definitive ratlines of trafficking, but do not think the scandal and phenomenon are as prominent among politicians and small-town America as suggested by Satanic Panic promoters who seem to think more about Satan than Jesus. I have seen plenty of evidence of pedophiles among the elite but not ritual abuse. Never have I seen slam dunk cases. Never. And when it is claimed, it is usually Youtube researchers. Youtube is even less reliable than Wikipedia.

I think too often people conflate the strangeness and symbology and metaphor in the fraternity lifestyle of the elite with an actual religion that they believe in. Maybe some of them do, but not many. I think this whole satanic panic will continue to live on as the anxieties of the day become greater and greater and the myths of our time become less and less relevant.
 
#43
They cannot out him because it would out the whole system, if you believe in CFR vs CNP.
Well that logic didn't seem to save Anthony Weiner.

BTW as a Brit, I haven't heard of either the CFR or the CNP - though no doubt I could GOOGLE them.

I admit I haven't followed many of your links, but the problem as you know, is that the internet really is a web - link after link, and as you get further away from familiar territory it becomes harder and harder to evaluate what you are reading.

For example, it seems clear now that the Russia probe was a plot to try to ensnare Trump, not a genuine concern about his fitness to govern. Given that 'they' would go to such extraordinary lengths to bring down the president (lengths that may land some of them in jail), it is entirely possible that they planted a few other false trails in the hope that someone would pick them up and run with them. That makes it very difficult now to evaluate any new claims against Trump.

Incidentally Epstein was/is very friendly with Price Andrew, and I suspect there is a very big scandal waiting to surface there!

David
Trump clearly has a penile-driven goddess-fetish and I believe he loves his children, so for me this puts him at the matriarchal end of a scale of (albeit toxic) male behaviour. The opposite extreme are the child-raping murderers. They are not the same, although both are products of a patriarchal culture that has treated women and children as exploitable objects or expendable 'raw material' with little or no rights, influence or status for 2,000 years.
I'd sure rather be at the Trump end of that spectrum, than at the other end! Actually I think everyone who has one, is somewhat 'penile-driven'!
Calling it evil tends to dissociate us and makes it impossible to understand.
Right - and I remember an interview with some men with pedophile inclinations (but nothing more than inclinations), about their struggles to avoid this temptation and the problems they had in getting any help for their condition.

Like so many things the definition of pedophilia is also inevitably arbitrary. In Britain, the age of consent is 16, in some European countries it is even lower. These legal thresholds are only possible because the police (at least over here) normally ignore consensual sex between partners who are bothh close to the age of consent. Without that pragmatic interpretation the law in his area would break down completely. I rather think it would be better to codify that police response in some sort of law, that would, for example, make sex between a 15 year old girl and her 17 year old boyfriend legal, but sex between a 19 year old girl and a 30 year old man illegal.
By owning it as the inevitable outcome of a society psychologically deranged by decades of religious contempt, we have the chance to change, starting with a return to reverence for women and their children.
There is hope of this with Trump.
I am not religious, but I do think a return to greater respect for the normal family would be a good step. Trump seems to rule in a remarkably moderate way, and his opponents seem to try to whip up hatred for him out of thin air.

David
 
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#44
I think Dr Some is walking on dangerous ground here. The kinds of 'mental illness' that signal spirit contact - or 'good news from the other world' are not the same thing the west has come to see as 'mental illness'. We tend to lump in an array of emotional traumas that can arise from emotional, physical and sexual abuse that may then contribute to various forms of intrusion, invasion or possession by adverse agents. We do not speak of emotional illness at all.

The crisis experienced by a person who is defined to become a healer is not really a 'mental illness' at all. It is a spirit induced state that has an intent that is inherently benign, if somewhat traumatic. It is true that some people who enter such a crisis will be believed to be mentally ill - because the idea of a spirit induced crisis is not something our mental health professional know anything about, as a rule.

In my view Some is making false equivalences that risk confusing people who believe him, and leading them to make poor judgements.

In essence there are 4 states that can lead to apparently disordered thought - spirit induced crisis, a genuine 'mental illness' arising from a variety of causes, emotional trauma and brain injury. The latter 3 may co-exist in some mix. Spirit induced crisis does seem to combine with some degree of emotional trauma - but probably not the other 2.
 
#45
I think too often people conflate the strangeness and symbology and metaphor in the fraternity lifestyle of the elite with an actual religion that they believe in. Maybe some of them do, but not many. I think this whole satanic panic will continue to live on as the anxieties of the day become greater and greater and the myths of our time become less and less relevant.
I like this sense of caution. While I cannot 'debunk' claims made, I confess to having major problems with claims that cannot be backed by accessible evidence - or which demand a dedicated research effort to evaluate the evidence.

I think there is sufficient evidence around prominent adults having sex with children that then leaves them vulnerable to blackmail - with deeply sinister implications for integrity of government. This has come out in a variety of ways that are open to verification. There are implications of degraded and debased lifestyles that are compelling too.

The popularity of the 'occult' and Satanism as an affectation among some 'celebs' is apparent, but does it go to the depths of depravity claimed? For me, so far, I have not been convinced by the claimants or reporters, and I have had neither the motive nor the time to go digging myself. That creates a kind of moral dilemma for me - the claims are shocking and yet I am not moved. It is not that I do not care, or care enough, for the issues themselves. But I am not about to be enticed by a sense of moral outrage to believe something I cannot assure myself is true.

There is counter claim - all this is happening but the bad guys have the means to so muddy the waters that the truth can to be clearly exposed. That may be true but that is also the ideal environment for predators and trolls who rely on the same conditions. Conspiracy theories are made of this. For, around 50% of the 'conspiracy theories' I have looked into in any depth have turned out to be BS, and of then rest, only a few have convinced me.

Exposure of the underbelly culture of degraded morality can be an act of service that has a coherent call to action - or it can be a salacious revelling in stories of naughtiness that expends our sense of moral outrage futilely. These days I have to ask myself a powerful question - If I accept a thing to be true, how will it alter my behaviour?

I routinely see people who have accepted as true something that is not true in any objective sense, and that belief has altered their behaviour in ways that not good for them or others. So for me caution is a critical duty.
 
#46
Well that logic didn't seem to save Anthony Weiner.
Weiner isn't the President, nor were the crimes he was convicted of as serious as those John is accusing Trump of.

BTW as a Brit, I haven't heard of either the CFR or the CNP - though no doubt I could GOOGLE them.
Don't worry, neither have most Americans. The Council on Foreign Relations is however much more well known and especially among the parapolitically concerned.

For example, it seems clear now that the Russia probe was a plot to try to ensnare Trump, not a genuine concern about his fitness to govern.
And to others, like myself, it seems clear that it is a cover for the activities of those who you see as trying to ensnare Trump. The "witch-hunt" is the smoke-screen, again school play. Familiarize yourself with the activities of Aleksandra Kyrlova, Anna Bogacheva, Maria Butina and Paul Erickson et al. Look at what those women did when they were in our country - not at what the Mueller and the media put your attention on (facebook ads / election meddling). Compare the locations they visited with the interests of the Rockefeller heir who Butina hosted a whole bunch of dinners with. Look at the supplies/equipment they purchased while here, consider that in conjunction with their educational backgrounds. Do you really hire doctoral candidates from prestigious St Petersburg universities to take out lame Facebook ads at the end of their trips here that only get 300k impressions? Election meddling is the cover. Trump is just playing his part here, he knew nothing would ever happen to him because he was well aware he's just another actor in a piece of theater.

That makes it very difficult now to evaluate any new claims against Trump.
No it doesn't, you can easily evaluate new claims while being aware false claims were made.

I rather think it would be better to codify that police response in some sort of law, that would, for example, make sex between a 15 year old girl and her 17 year old boyfriend legal, but sex between a 19 year old girl and a 30 year old man illegal.
Agreed!
 
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#47
Well that logic didn't seem to save Anthony Weiner. David
Exactly. There are many who that logic doesn't save. They get overlooked in the building of conspiracy theories because conspiracy theories are more interested with maintaining a propaganda narrative as opposed to arriving at objective truth. It's folk propaganda, but propaganda all the same.


I admit I haven't followed many of your links, but the problem as you know, is that the internet really is a web - link after link, and as you get further away from familiar territory it becomes harder and harder to evaluate what you are reading.
Again, spot on. Almost all of these conspiracy theories quickly devolve into a series of increasingly more loosely associated internet links.

For example, it seems clear now that the Russia probe was a plot to try to ensnare Trump, not a genuine concern about his fitness to govern. Given that 'they' would go to such extraordinary lengths to bring down the president (lengths that may land some of them in jail), it is entirely possible that they planted a few other false trails in the hope that someone would pick them up and run with them. That makes it very difficult now to evaluate any new claims against Trump..
Yes. Anyone can falsely accuse anyone of anything. Once again, rumor and innuendo do equal truth. I am actually disappointed in the Steele Dossier and related shenanigans. The trade craft is abysmal. It reflects very badly on MI6 and the CIA (Brennan). My reaction when I first read about it two years ago was that it looked like an operation conceived and implemented by high school students. IMO Clinton pushed them into the plot. So really it demonstrates why she was too stupid and crazy - not to mention corrupt - to be President.

Incidentally Epstein was/is very friendly with Price Andrew, and I suspect there is a very big scandal waiting to surface there!..
Look. In our society, whether at the international, national or even local level, there are very few movers and shakers/entrepreneur types. Most people are just work-a-day drones. It is natural and expected that the movers and shakers will have some connection with each other. They have to cooperate as much as compete with each other. So A knows B and B knows C is a statistical reality as much as it a sociological reality. Some of these people are psychopaths because inserting oneself into situations where there is access to great power and big money and little actual work is exactly the kind of environment a competent and intelligent psychopath seeks. Then there is the fact that power corrupts. People in these positions can indulge in their desires. The psychopaths are there to help them along in that regard. No surprise. Been happening since history began. Anyhow, in order to get things done, you have to meet these people and go to the parties, golf outings, whatever.....If A is into sex with children and B, as facilitator/go between knows C and C needs to meet with A to get something done in business or politics, then A, B and C are going to end up in the same room sooner or later. It does not therefore translate into C is into child sex (as the conspiracy theorists want it to). Again, the world of movers and shakers is a small world.
 
#48
I think too often people conflate the strangeness and symbology and metaphor in the fraternity lifestyle of the elite with an actual religion that they believe in.
A logical stance, but consider what people who have as more money, power, access than they'll ever be able to use want to spend their free time pursuing. It is hard for anyone who has to actually work to survive to imagine this. Those "at the top" will inevitably be drawn further and further towards the extremes of culture, morality, spirituality and otherwise. They have the ability to more easily learn or at least begin to penetrate the secrets many of us can only dream of and they go for it. The symbolism of fraternity culture is a mere shadow of the archetypal and illuminated symbolism of the elite secret societies. I don't claim there is anything necessarily nefarious about that - but I think caution should also be applied to tossing such things off as simply strange or as though very few of the "elite" believe in what their symbolism represents.
 
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#49
As an addendum to my reply to David, I'm sure someone is thinking that if A is a child molester and B is aware of it and maybe facilitating and B knows C and introduces C to A and C then observes some of the rotten activities of A (and B), that C is complicit in a conspiracy if he doesn't immediately notify authorities.

I disagree, to an extent.

The result of notifying authorities in such an instance would be 1. the destruction of opportunities to achieve something worthwhile on C's part 2. A long and possibly unproductive court case. 3. The personal destruction of C - or at least C's ability to operate as needed. 4. The replacement of A (and maybe B) by yet another creep.

So little positive would be accomplished and there is a definite down side potential for C.

At least that is what humans, like C, are wont to think and do.

We are all very good at justifying to ourselves. You should be able to see how C could justify overlooking something as atrocious as child sex trafficking for the time being. Perhaps he tells himself that once he has achieved a certain position that he will come back and get these guys. Who knows.

I am not advocating assuming such a position, just analyzing how it happens.

Life is messy and complicated.
 
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#50
I'm not sure why the Council on Foreign Relations (who was practically the only policy influencer in Washington maybe decades ago) and the Council on National Policy (do they even write policy or just network?) are such a focus for some. They are important, for sure, but I think the bigger focus should be those who actually write policy for the international financial firms/banks. I never see G30 mentioned and they essentially control the move of capital, concretize who will be investing in who (hint -- the richest 50 invest in each other), and ensure that behind-the-scenes elites will make their money from privatizing that which is held by states/federal or the Commons and from endless military war. These people control the flow of capital more than anyone else and if any one group should be the symbol of controlling the world, it is them. Too often we point fingers at groups that are mostly social gathering events (Devos, Bohemian Grove, Bilderbergs) or organizations that influence but don't actually write policy. I'm not so naive that I don't understand that "behind-the scenes" agreements and ventures don't occur, but G30 (and CFR for that matter) are mostly transparent on what they want to happen (and G30 has far less disagreement than members of CFR).
 
#51
Runic Charms -- I agree that caution should be made. I also agree that some of the elites do practice in the occult. So do many of the poor. And so do majorities (or at least large numbers) of people that live in non-Western countries.

Now, I think what we are talking about, when we boil things down, is simple -- are a large percentage of unnamed elites raping, killing, cannibalizing (etc) young children in a ritualized fashion, and thus need an ongoing ratline to do such activities -- and if we are to believe some researchers -- so that they can use that activity to somehow -- what? -- feel powerful? Rule the world? Brainwash/control kids into servitude? I find this ludicrous on its face and have yet to see anything close to proof. A bunch of men (and maybe some women) that hang out with other men so they can fuck (and rape) young women (and for some, little boys and girls), do top of the line designer drugs, and network in a fraternal atmosphere seems much more likely.

I also think far too often people see the symbology that gets thrown into the masses (and into our psyches) by advertisers and organization as a way to influence our thoughts. And some of these symbols and memes and archetypes resonate deeply within this culture and come from very old places. But once again, we conflate the aims of capitalism and money-makers (and their experts on the mind) to that of some kind of ancient occult religion that is being practiced (or for some, they just say Luciferianism or Satanism). I just think they are just better at understanding how shit works. That doesn't mean that some renegade individuals and groups aren't doing crazy things, perhaps sometimes with CIA money, but this is the exception and not the rule.
 
#52
Runic Charms -- I agree that caution should be made. I also agree that some of the elites do practice in the occult. So do many of the poor. And so do majorities (or at least large numbers) of people that live in non-Western countries.

Now, I think what we are talking about, when we boil things down, is simple -- are a large percentage of unnamed elites raping, killing, cannibalizing (etc) young children in a ritualized fashion, and thus need an ongoing ratline to do such activities -- and if we are to believe some researchers -- so that they can use that activity to somehow -- what? -- feel powerful? Rule the world? Brainwash/control kids into servitude? I find this ludicrous on its face and have yet to see anything close to proof. A bunch of men (and maybe some women) that hang out with other men so they can fuck (and rape) young women (and for some, little boys and girls), do top of the line designer drugs, and network in a fraternal atmosphere seems much more likely.

I also think far too often people see the symbology that gets thrown into the masses (and into our psyches) by advertisers and organization as a way to influence our thoughts. And some of these symbols and memes and archetypes resonate deeply within this culture and come from very old places. But once again, we conflate the aims of capitalism and money-makers (and their experts on the mind) to that of some kind of ancient occult religion that is being practiced (or for some, they just say Luciferianism or Satanism). I just think they are just better at understanding how shit works. That doesn't mean that some renegade individuals and groups aren't doing crazy things, perhaps sometimes with CIA money, but this is the exception and not the rule.

"ratline" - brings a smile to my face. Haven't heard/seen that term used in a long time.

I agree with what you say, but I suggest caution around the economic determinism. Ideology is at least important, IMO. For example George Soros has all the money he could ever want and is very old. Yet he has established foundations, with ideological missions, that will survive him for generations. He believes in something and those beliefs are driving his behaviors and investments in the future. You may not agree with it, but there it is.

Symbolism and its psychological affects is just science (as you say). Everyone employs it. Some just have the resources to employ it on a large scale. It is not relegated to cults. Even a high school football team will have a wild animal (tiger, lion, etc) or wild human (Viking, Indian, Cowboy, etc) as a symbol.

"A bunch of men (and maybe some women) that hang out with other men so they can fuck (and rape) young women (and for some, little boys and girls), do top of the line designer drugs, and network in a fraternal atmosphere seems much more likely. " Yep. Degenerates that have the means to indulge their degeneracy. I know some blue collar degenerates. They'd be doing the same thing on the same scale as the "elites" if they could. Living like a "rock star" as they like to imagine. Like so much that gets ascribed to conspiracies, it just people being people.

In a way, it is a side effect of democracy. When I was growing up, I lived in a community and went to private school with "elites" - old blue bloods; names you'd recognize. I never saw any of this degeneracy. It was all Emily Post and WASP values. There was no child molestation. Heck, even teenage girls remained chaste for the most part. The Clintons changed a lot of this. They heralded the age of the river boat gamblers and carnival barkers in positions of power. Now any yahoo can hold high office - either elected or appointed. The degeneracy used to be thing of the lower classes. Now it is accepted in the higher levels of society. The common man has arrived, with all of his moral failings. WASP culture has receded in the face of populism.

It's still evil. Just it's random evil subject to normal unconscious organizing sociological forces as opposed to the deliberately organized cult bound evil that the conspiracy theorists imagine. That said, I do think it conforms to a deeper pattern that exists at the spiritual level. A few facilitators recognize that. They are spiritual, albeit adherents of the dark side. The vast majority of participants do not know what they're really doing because they are spiritually lost. They may even attend a satanic themed party, but they think it just an avant garde thing to do to alleviate their boredom.
 
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#54
Eric -- I don't disagree with the spiritual and ideological implications. But when the spiritual is mixed into a self-reflection of exceptionalism and a sense of entitlement, it will be inherently intertwined with the economic view of the world of that individual (and the state of economic security of that time). I didn't want to head down that road, but I should have.

I guess, maybe another way to look at this is to see what happened to New Thought during the rise of Reaganism. The day of conservation and speed limits and gas rationing and appropriate tech got swindled into pedal-to-the-metal gas guzzling SUVS and New Age self-help "gimme gimme gimme" -- belief that limits do not exist and that everyone can have "abundance." Now the most popular Christian churches are built around this premise and you can't get a New Age self-help book published on a major press without this philosophy. Spiritual practice is dependent upon the time and the economic realities (or propaganda) of the day.

It is the myths of our time that hold the power over us -- American Exceptionalism, Progress, Pull Yourself up by Your Bootstraps, Infinite Growth, Technotopia -- and these myths are still practiced and believed by the elites because they hold true for many of them. But they resonate less and less with the lower middle class and poor. I think degenerate behavior (and spiritual practice) from the top comes from believing the bullshit and justifying their place in society (and among the upper middle class as well), while the lower middle class and poor go through increasing cognitive dissonance as they start seeing how much these myths are bullshit. It worked a lot better when you got off the boat and were given a deed to some land in Iowa for the Homestead Act. It worked when after WWII the US was the only economic superpower and had seemingly infinite amounts of cheap energy and the rest of the world did their bidding to make cheap shit for the baby boom consumer. The myths don't work and the blue-collar degenerate behavior is mostly an inability to come to terms with the realities of the day.

And while I believe many conspiracies exist, and am not a debunker by nature, I think too often part of this cognitive dissonance of the economically anxious leads to Wonderbread spiritual practice and looking only through a conspiracy lens. (And I think Fox and MSNBC are essentially tame conspiracy shows now with perhaps a couple of exceptions -- who do you want to blame for our problems: the Left, Muslims, immigrants, and socialism or do you want to blame Trump, Russia, and fascists).

I'm not sure how on-point I stayed (or strayed) with my thoughts, as I sort of wrote this in a quick few minutes. Maybe what we need to realize is that most of us have really bankrupt spiritual practices and have belief systems that are easily "soul doubt" (aka sold out -- like that? I'm pretty quick with the words). But I also think this massive pedophilia satanic racket and our belief in it has more to say about us that believe in it, than it does the way the elites actually live and behave (with some exceptions).
 
#56
Eric -- I don't disagree with the spiritual and ideological implications. But when the spiritual is mixed into a self-reflection of exceptionalism and a sense of entitlement, it will be inherently intertwined with the economic view of the world of that individual (and the state of economic security of that time). I didn't want to head down that road, but I should have.

I guess, maybe another way to look at this is to see what happened to New Thought during the rise of Reaganism. The day of conservation and speed limits and gas rationing and appropriate tech got swindled into pedal-to-the-metal gas guzzling SUVS and New Age self-help "gimme gimme gimme" -- belief that limits do not exist and that everyone can have "abundance." Now the most popular Christian churches are built around this premise and you can't get a New Age self-help book published on a major press without this philosophy. Spiritual practice is dependent upon the time and the economic realities (or propaganda) of the day.

It is the myths of our time that hold the power over us -- American Exceptionalism, Progress, Pull Yourself up by Your Bootstraps, Infinite Growth, Technotopia -- and these myths are still practiced and believed by the elites because they hold true for many of them. But they resonate less and less with the lower middle class and poor. I think degenerate behavior (and spiritual practice) from the top comes from believing the bullshit and justifying their place in society (and among the upper middle class as well), while the lower middle class and poor go through increasing cognitive dissonance as they start seeing how much these myths are bullshit. It worked a lot better when you got off the boat and were given a deed to some land in Iowa for the Homestead Act. It worked when after WWII the US was the only economic superpower and had seemingly infinite amounts of cheap energy and the rest of the world did their bidding to make cheap shit for the baby boom consumer. The myths don't work and the blue-collar degenerate behavior is mostly an inability to come to terms with the realities of the day.

And while I believe many conspiracies exist, and am not a debunker by nature, I think too often part of this cognitive dissonance of the economically anxious leads to Wonderbread spiritual practice and looking only through a conspiracy lens. (And I think Fox and MSNBC are essentially tame conspiracy shows now with perhaps a couple of exceptions -- who do you want to blame for our problems: the Left, Muslims, immigrants, and socialism or do you want to blame Trump, Russia, and fascists).

I'm not sure how on-point I stayed (or strayed) with my thoughts, as I sort of wrote this in a quick few minutes. Maybe what we need to realize is that most of us have really bankrupt spiritual practices and have belief systems that are easily "soul doubt" (aka sold out -- like that? I'm pretty quick with the words). But I also think this massive pedophilia satanic racket and our belief in it has more to say about us that believe in it, than it does the way the elites actually live and behave (with some exceptions).
Crystal,
I think you make some great points. I really like your thoughtful comments!

I differ from you slightly in that I don't think this is isolated to the "elites". I think that most Americans (and citizens other Western countries) are doing materially well enough that they have the ways and means to indulge in degeneracy; especially given the decline of spirituality and ascendency of materialism. Like I said, I know a lot of blue collar types who are total degenerates. I even see them get busted for child molestation.

More importantly, I think you're more focused on transient pop culture as opposed to the deeper persistent spiritual truths that interest me. You can read ancient Greek lit, ancient Middle Eastern or Indian (e.g. the Vedas) or ancient Chinese writings and the stories are all the same - albeit with regional nuance - and are the same as what we all go through today. I guess this is something akin to what a Joseph Campbell calls out. In fact, I think one of the great illusions/delusions is that "our time" is somehow different through technology, or "reason", or a new religion, or whatever, we have broken through the ancient truths; that history is (as if it is a living thing with direction and intent) projecting us to a new glorious era complete with a revolution of the human spirit. IMO, that is all pure BS and people of all times have been duped by such assertions.

I do agree with you that our old American myths are breaking down. Myths contain the encoded values and road maps of a society. When they break down, there is a risk of chaos, war, and madness. IMO, we are seeing exactly that as the right and left battle for supremacy in the myth making department. It happens. Times change. yet good and evil remain, at bottom, exactly what they always were and always will be.
 
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#58
I agree with what you say, but I suggest caution around the economic determinism. Ideology is at least important, IMO. For example George Soros has all the money he could ever want and is very old. Yet he has established foundations, with ideological missions, that will survive him for generations. He believes in something and those beliefs are driving his behaviors and investments in the future. You may not agree with it, but there it is.
Yes, but that the Hell does he believe in? I used to think he was a somewhat misguided philanthropist, I now suspect he wants nothing less than the destruction of the West - along with many of the people he purports to want to help.

David
 
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