Wonderful show. Thanks Alex and Bernardo.
I enjoyed the whole interview and got a lot out of it.
I worried a little that early on Alex, you seemed to misunderstand Bernardo's point about religious myths as symbols pointing to deeper truths (fingers pointing at the moon type thing). Or maybe I should say, you seemed to understand his point in a way that I didn't understand it. I say this because it seemed from your line of questioning that you felt it was irreconcilable with the NDE accounts. At no point did I see that anything Bernardo was saying was in any way challenged by, or a challenge to the NDE narrative we seem to have from a huge body of testimony. In fact for me, his point about religious myth being a symbolic finger pointing at a deeper truth was complimentary to the NDE narrative.
It occurs to me, that to ask a question somewhat along the lines of "if religious myths are symbolic and not derived from some literal historical figure or fact, then does this undermine the reality of the NDE as a real and valid experience?" is to miss the most fundamental point. Once you realise (as I know you have) that we do not live in a "materialistic" universe (solid, immutable, finite and definite), but more of an "idealistic" one (fluid, ever changing, infinite and malleable), it makes no sense to look for "solid, immutable, finite and definite" characteristics in the deeper truths we may access (NDE's).
What I mean is, it seems we have a slight cognitive dissonance hangover from our days as card carrying materialists (I certainly was once, and I'm sure many of us here on the forum have been and have had our positions radically shifted over recent years). It often seems that we are looking to prove the concrete reality of the NDE as an absolutely solid, immutable, definite thing (e.g. my meeting with Jesus was a meeting with the real historical Jesus, who once lived in Palestine, who the romans were quite mean to, who may have father issues, and is right now enjoying a cup of tea, and will always be the same Jesus for eternity, and never a different Jesus, and that's the one I met, so he must be real) which could only be the case if it were part of a "materialistic" universe.
But we know we don't live in a materialistic universe, and that it is observer dependent to a far more profound degree than we used to believe possible (perhaps entirely). So, it's a consensus reality, and it is also an idealistic universe, so our experiences of the same thing (Jesus or Chocolate for example) are either totally different, or somewhat similar. The fluid nature of the idealistic universe allows both. If it were truly materialistic and objectively real (solid, finite and definite), how could we have different experiences of something objectively existing?
So this is what I mean about a cognitive dissonance hangover relating to materialism. We know that we don't live in a materialistic universe, but we keep searching for materialistic proof's that this is the case! (50 people said jesus had a beard - consensus - solid - real - unchanging - solid - definite etc)
Sorry what I am saying is so haphazard, I wish I had half the eloquence of Bernardo, but I hope you get what I am saying. You seemed to identify a challenge to the validity or reality of the NDE in the suggestion that religious myth's are primarily symbols pointing to a deeper truth which the symbol does not contain, but which merely points our attention toward. So it felt like you wanted to say the NDE is a "concrete, solid, finite and definite thing" and the suggestion of symbolism might upset the concrete reality of the NDE. But NOTHING is concrete, as NOTHING is material! Deeper truths (NDE's) would bear even LESS resemblance to material things, and be MORE fluid - no? Perhaps we need to take a step back and realise that we seem to impose a materialistic boundary and framework even around idealistic universe which is coming into view.
I especially appreciated the end of the interview. Bernardo saying he was either having a breakthrough or a breakdown (I am certain it is a breakthrough), and Alex sharing his inner urge to infuse life with something devotional and the wonderful story about the Sanskrit teacher. For me, I have been a passenger on the Skeptiko train for many years now, and Alex's evolution and investigations have totally helped form and shape my own evolution, and I have been thinking for a while now that the information I have learned in the show, while it has transformed my life, both inner and outer, and provided me some pointers, it has given me no real clear sense of the direction I ought to be moving along, or goal I should try and achieve. However, it has made my desire to find a clear direction and a goal much firmer, and given me the certainty that any direction and goal I move towards will not be fatuous or futile (as in a materialistic universe). I know which way the wind is blowing, but not which path I will take in that direction, although I do truly believe now they may really be all leading to the same destination - our innermost.
Alex seems to be nurturing an attraction to bhakti and kirtan as an expression of that need to begin to find a path. I am attracted to many paths, Tibetan Buddhism, Gnostic Christianity, Vedanta etc, and cannot whole heartedly throw myself into one, but I know I will never look back, and never doubt that I live in a meaningful and mystical universe, and that my being here has just as much meaning as the universe being here, and most importantly, it is not solid, finite of immutable, but fluid, infinite and ever changing, ever evolving.
Surely we will all find the right path one day, and it will be different for each of us. I am reminded of the Buddhist metaphor of Buddhism being the boat that carries one across the river of samsara. When one reaches the other side, it would be foolish and cumbersome to carry the boat with us on the other shore, better to drop it. Like wise, all paths must come to an end, and maybe we will find our selves on the same land mass at the end of our chosen routes.
Thank you Alex for your invaluable input into my spiritual evolution. I wouldn't be so well reconciled with the universe I find my self in if it weren't for you and your show, and people like Bernardo, and indeed everyone on the forum. :)