Mod+ "Skeptiko NDE documentaries" comment thread

Ian Gordon

Ninshub
Member
#1
This is a comment thread for the Skeptiko NDE Documentaries Thread:
http://www.skeptiko-forum.com/threads/skeptiko-nde-documentaries-thread-and-other-related.136/

I just wanted to create this so that comments can be made to avoid clogging that video-sharing thread.

K9, I just wanted to say I really, really liked this presentation, and I'm going to watch it a second time. I wished, though, that Scott had been more explicit in describing and exploring the links between the OBE Locales and the NDE realms. I remember we've had past forum discussions where we've discussed some common elements, like the "vibration" sound when you "change realms".

And does anyone know if Monroe (or someone else tied in with his work) has made a description of all of these locales? I've read his first two books, and I don't remember if he was that explicit or thorough with all of the locales in the second volume, Far Journeys.
 
#2
Juergen Ziewe has just brought out a new book called Vistas of Eternity, he has done extensive OOB's for over 40 years. I'm waiting until it's on Kindle (September apparently).

He seems to slightly 'put down' NDE ers. Maybe if you do so much yourself then that's understandable. On the other hand......maybe because he's not had one there's a bit of an issue. I just don't know. He seems to be a totally genuine person, maybe he is totally convinced by his own experiences that he can say that NDE's aren't as big a deal as some people make out.

I asked him tonight if he has any 'powers', the same psychic thinkgs that NDE ers report. If he has I'd believe it to be true and that would put weight on his argument. He hasn't replied yet. (Facebook)

They are also discussing suicides and whether people that commit suicides are judged negatively in any way. The feeling there is that they are not. Hellish NDE's might be experienced by some people who commit suicide, but it is more likely a result of any negative things that they did outside committing suicide. Which although it isn't punished in any way, it it not condoned.
 

Ian Gordon

Ninshub
Member
#3
And does anyone know if Monroe (or someone else tied in with his work) has made a description of all of these locales? I've read his first two books, and I don't remember if he was that explicit or thorough with all of the locales in the second volume, Far Journeys.
This website says the following about the different "Focus" levels, which are the ones Scott describes. They seem to have been described in Monroe's third book, Ultimate Journey:

Achieving the focus 10 state is facilitated by tapes or CD's, which utilize binaural beats to influence brain wave patterns in the person listening to them. These tapes are sold as part of a set of tapes/CDs called The Gateway Experience by the Monroe Institute. In particular, the set of tapes (Wave I) of the Gateway Experience is geared towards establishing the focus 10 state, while subsequent series (Wave II to VI) gradually increase the phase shift away from the physical. These focus levels have been described as follows (Monroe, 1994, p. 248):

Focus 10: Mind Awake/Body Asleep
Focus 12: A state of expanded awareness
Focus 15: State of no time
Focus 21: The edge of time/space where it is possible to contact other energy systems.

It is important to realize these focus levels are merely arbitrary numbers and signposts to identify the state of consciousness one is in. In case you're wondering, there is no focus 14 or focus 16. However, beyond focus 21, several other focus levels have been identified further removed from the physical, and which involve among other systems the perception of belief system territories (" astral planes"). Thus, The Gateway Experience is meant as a platform from which to explore further on your own. For more information, I suggest you visit the website at the Monroe Institute at www.monroeinstitute.org.

http://www.beyond-body.com/focus10.html
 
#4
Ian, I too loved Scott's presentation. This, along with Tom Campbell and particularly Jurgen's work has convinced me that this is the way to go.

If I had the cash, I'd be booking somewhere like the Monroe institute this very minute to prove it to myself.
 

Ian Gordon

Ninshub
Member
#5
Steve, I've never heard of this Juergen Ziewe before. Is he well known in the OBE world? I know the names of Monroe, Buhlman, Bruce, Graham Nicholls, Luis Minero, but OBEs are one of my least personally "researched" areas. What do you like about Ziewe especially? There's a couple of youtube interviews online with him, I'll watch one of them.
 
#6
Ian, I saw the interview with Todd Academis around three and a half years ago and I was impressed by what Jurgen was saying he had experienced. Particularly the one about suddenly being outside his mothers house miles from his own, where he says the reality was indistinguishable from waking reality, that stuck in my mind.

I contacted him at some stage and he sent me a very nice reply, giving me a link to some energy video and generally I got a good vibe from him. Since then he and I have been in contact on Facebook and I have asked him all sorts of questions which he has attempted to or answered without ego, that is what I like most about him. He is genuine.

His new book is about the last seven years of personal experience. He disagrees with Tom Campbell and William Bulman who keep their experiences private because they say that they don't want the experiences influencing other people's experiences. I agree with Jurgen, how many people actually achieve OOB after finding out about it and trying it. A tiny percentage of them.

I think that hearing the stories will convince many more people to actually try it for themselves. I got to a half asleep state when I was very relaxed when I suddenly heard two loud voices and I thought there were intruders in the house. I 'woke up' looking for them but there was only silence, no-one there. I asked Ryan Tasker from the Astral Pulse and he said that I was quite close to getting into an out of body state. I haven't managed to achieve the same state and I have stopped trying.

I believe him when he tells me these things, I trust him. He is modest but does not shy away from people asking him questions, he only reports what he sees. And I really think we should pay attention to what he is telling us. To me it makes sense, tying up NDE( not completely:eek:)and reincarnation and many other things.
 
#7
Steve, I've never heard of this Juergen Ziewe before. Is he well known in the OBE world? I know the names of Monroe, Buhlman, Bruce, Graham Nicholls, Luis Minero, but OBEs are one of my least personally "researched" areas. What do you like about Ziewe especially? There's a couple of youtube interviews online with him, I'll watch one of them.
Yes. He is very well respected.
 
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