David Bailey
Member
Suppose we accept, for the sake of argument, that consciousness and intelligence arose by emergence from a complex system driven by natural selection. Wouldn't we expect consciousness and intelligence to be present in many other systems. Remember that arguments about emergence don't specify any particular substrate for a complex system, and don't specify the time-scale on which they might operate.
For example, trees are undoubtedly complex, and they need to compete to grab light and achieve several other aims, so wouldn't materialism predict that they might be conscious?
Likewise, if we take an entire species - say giraffe's and their forebears. The entire species would be competing with other species, and of course it would be complex, so might not it also be conscious? Might it not find a way to modify its DNA and test the result - keeping records and designing the next change in the genome.........
Now I don't believe in emergence from a materialist base (or at least I think it is looking less and less plausible), but some of you here do believe the idea - so what is wrong with those other proposed uses of the emergence concept?
Indeed, wouldn't materialism actually predict that many evolutionary changes would be designed:)
David
For example, trees are undoubtedly complex, and they need to compete to grab light and achieve several other aims, so wouldn't materialism predict that they might be conscious?
Likewise, if we take an entire species - say giraffe's and their forebears. The entire species would be competing with other species, and of course it would be complex, so might not it also be conscious? Might it not find a way to modify its DNA and test the result - keeping records and designing the next change in the genome.........
Now I don't believe in emergence from a materialist base (or at least I think it is looking less and less plausible), but some of you here do believe the idea - so what is wrong with those other proposed uses of the emergence concept?
Indeed, wouldn't materialism actually predict that many evolutionary changes would be designed:)
David