TALKING EVIL WITH ALEX TSAKIRIS -- GORDON WHITE -- RUNE SOUP

Alex

Administrator
#1
TALKING EVIL WITH ALEX TSAKIRIS
Gordon10 hours ago

Gordon White just posted this on runesoup. fun chat... what do you guys think?

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The one and only Alex Tsakiris joins us this week for an extended and challenging discussion on the nature of evil.
Alex is in the process of writing a book on the subject, pulling together the testimony and opinions of multiple guests on his excellent podcast, Skeptiko. What does psi data tell us about the possible existence of evil? What about cross-cultural comparisons? We have a frank and confronting discussion.
This is a firecracker of an episode. Or maybe I just smell brimstone?
Download the episode directly here, or listen along on YouTube below.
 
#3
Regarding the "bee in Alex's bonnet"... the question: what does ET see in their life review? I have a couple of thoughts.

Life review implies feedback loop which implies improvement in a model/neural net or growth in ability/skill/power. The life review is an opportunity to juxtapose your goals/desires with actual outcomes to see where you could have done better presumably so that you will do better next time.

Whatever consciousness is, there is no doubt one component of it is the feedback loop. One measure (not the whole story of course) of consciousness or intelligence might be efficiency: the fewer iterations of the feedback loop required to attain a goal, the greater the consciousness/intelligence. An advanced intelligence can run simulations of a scenario an a shorter time scale which reduces the number of iterations it must perform in actuality. Our imagination allows us to simulate situations in an internal feedback loop before actually engaging in the scenario which improves our efficiency/intelligence. If we are living in a nested reality, then we might also be considered to be an "imagination" of a higher self that is trying to efficiently achieve a goal, so it is imagining how to achieve that goal and trying possibilities in simulation internally before acting it out.

Another thing that has been brought up a couple of times recently is the notion of semi-conscious non-corporeal entities which a soul might create to accomplish a task... etheric robots powered by will-lithium batteries. Many reports of ET describe the Grays as sort of semi-conscious robots created to serve a purpose. Perhaps these are physical manifestations of Egregores.

Are we Biological Robots in a meaningless universe? No, but maybe we are semi-conscious Egregores ...etheric robots taking physical form and learning to become more than merely a semi-conscious Egregore, but a fully conscious God or whatever it is that is better/more conscious.

So some ETs might well be physical manifestations of the broken off sub-personalities and Egregores that we have created. And since they are minimally conscious, they probably don't have much of a life review... maybe it is a pass/fail QC check and those that failed get tossed in the scrap pile for recycling and they don't have any issue with that since they aren't really conscious enough to be aware of their impending reformatting.

Some ETs are likely as conscious as we are and they probably have a life review the same as we do.

The difficulty in trying to imagine what it is like to be more or less conscious than we are now is that to either add or subtract awareness results in something that seems robotic or less conscious. It is as if we find ourselves in the MIDDLE and that is where maximum consciousness is possible.
 
#4
As the discussion touched on SRA, I had this thought that might be a good way to model Good and Evil with the big G and big E.

Returning to the idea that all power is derived from desire/will, an entity can desire to move towards something or away from something. As sensing beings we desire to move towards pleasure and away from pain. We can of course complexify that and desire short term pain for some other higher order pleasure, but that’s an unnecessary complication here.

A power/energy source in a fertile environment will create a hierarchy of consumption and transformation of that power/energy - an ecosystem.

Pain and Pleasure are the two terminals on this power source. So an “Evil” hierarchy forms at the negative terminal and a “Good” hierarchy forms at the positive terminal.

The Evil hierarchy is built on pain, loss, and fear of these. A nested series of threats create the structure. If you don’t comply with what I want, I’ll make you hurt. A drug cartel is a good “As below” example. In the Evil hierarchy the punishment exceeds the act. If you steal a pen from Guido, he’ll chop your hand off.

The Good hierarchy is built on desire for mutual benefit. You help me attain my goals and I’ll help you attain yours in a voluntary way. If you choose not to help me, there’s no threat of pain or loss other than maybe a missed opportunity. There is grace and no fear of punishment.

What is the ultimate fear of loss driving the top of the Evil hierarchy? Death.

What is the ultimate goal at the top of the Good hierarchy? Eternal Life.

To die is to be forgotten when consciousness fades away. To have eternal life is to expand consciousness to remember it all.

The Divine Mind or Super-Self is creating something and that process involves this polarity of remembering / forgetting eternal life / eternal death.

There is an asymmetry which drives motion. The Good is greater than the Evil, therefore the Evil is eventually forgotten or we could say it dies while the Good remains. This death, the fear of being forgotten is the ultimate fear driving the Evil hierarchy.

How do we know that Good prevails in the end? Look around. There is structure persisting on into the future. The consistency of the natural laws, the stories and structures that have been built up over time, the channeled spirits of the deceased... are evidence that things are remembered and retained in the Divine Mind.

The first step into evil is coercion - violating someone else’s will to get yours. The next step is growth in power without consideration for others like a cancer. Finally collapse and decay. It is voluntary death for the sake of others that results in eternal life, but those who try to keep their life will lose it.

And just like that, I’ve rediscovered my Christian roots. :)
 
#6
I am glad Gordon asked you to explain ET life review--I had never understood this before.

I was also struck by Gordon's comments re mysticism. I just can't read the mystics any more. The esteemed Dean Inge remarked that they have for the most part never done justice to evil. “Let sanguine healthy-mindedness do its best with its strange power of living in the moment and ignoring and forgetting, still the evil background is really there to be thought of, and the skull will grin in at the banquet." Wm James

I wish you had both focused more on the core essence of SRA. In Out of the Shadows a woman testifies that a four year old boy was skinned alive. This is so much more than a blockage of the light (privato bono is. a common theme of avoidance in historic theology). There be dragons, slouching toward Bethlehem, some already there with their human cohorts--who are in fact no longer human but some sort of aberration.

ALEX, I am still perplexed by your saying evil is a lens into extended consciousness—if we take eye glasses, with a lens, and we speak of rose colored lenses making everything looks rosy-- you surely aren’t making a parallel with that??

I truly wish you would define extended consciousness. Other concepts out there are greater reality, spirit realms, mutidimensional....Can you identify with any of those?

Many thanks to you both. :):D:eek:
 
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#8
That is the kind of discussion that is best taken in in chunks. Gordon seems to approach these subjects in a very analytic way.

He posed the problem that you really have a sliding scale going from two lovers aged 17 and 18 having consensual sex, to a 50 year old man having 'consensual' sex with an eight-year old. I think that is a tricky question, and I kind of think Alex flunked it. I want to try to tackle it head on.

I suppose I think that any sexual act can in principle be evil to a greater or lesser degree. Let's assume the man is the older of the two, well the 18 year old might find himself questioning a little bit - should he or not - could he be sure not to get her pregnant, would she still feel good about the act the following day, did I take advantage of her psychologically by buying her that present, had they been seeing each other for long enough, etc, etc.

Looked at like that conscience is involved, but it probably agrees to go ahead in most cases. If the gap is a bit larger, the man's conscience should prick a bit more, until it should veto the act at a point which might depend on various other factors - how long they had been seeing each other, etc.

A man of 50 having sex with an eight year old is clearly taking absolutely no notice whatsoever of his conscience.

IMHO, That would still apply to a 50 year old man having sex with a 19-year old.

So really the evil builds up as the age of the girl gets less, and as the age gap becomes greater. However even consensual sex between people the same age has the potential to be somewhat evil if some of the other factors I have mentioned aren't right.

So yes, evil is a continuous variable, and it doesn't just depend on the ages of the persons involved, but at some point his conscience should have definitely forbidden the act - so beyond that point the act would be Evil.

Thus maybe Evil (with a capital E) cuts in when conscience is completely ignored, evil with a small e is where the man takes some notice of his conscience, but not enough.

I'm not claiming that is a great answer, but I think you shouldn't hand-waive past Gordon's point.

I wonder which of Tom Z's entities would correspond to conscience?

David
 
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Alex

Administrator
#9
The difficulty in trying to imagine what it is like to be more or less conscious than we are now is that to either add or subtract awareness results in something that seems robotic or less conscious. It is as if we find ourselves in the MIDDLE and that is where maximum consciousness is possible.
there's a movie quote that miguel conner from aeon byte plays all the time... something about the difference between the least of our species and a chimpanzee is less than the difference between the ordinary person and great minds/consciousness like aristotle
 

Alex

Administrator
#12
I am glad Gordon asked you to explain ET life review--I had never understood this before.

I was also struck by Gordon's comments re mysticism. I just can't read the mystics any more. The esteemed Dean Inge remarked that they have for the most part never done justice to evil. “Let sanguine healthy-mindedness do its best with its strange power of living in the moment and ignoring and forgetting, still the evil background is really there to be thought of, and the skull will grin in at the banquet." Wm James
ecellent thx:
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Alex

Administrator
#13
I wish you had both focused more on the core essence of SRA. In Out of the Shadows a woman testifies that a four year old boy was skinned alive. This is so much more than a blockage of the light
I don't understand your push back here. I'm pointing out the absurdity of ignoring this phenomenon. I'm pointing out the absurdity of academia/ intellectual elite/ entertainment elite dismissing it with the wave of the hand and a "you know what's really going on" wink. I'm pointing out the absurdity of corrupted, deceptive religious institutions weighing in with anything beyond an apology.
 

Alex

Administrator
#15
He posed the problem that you really have a sliding scale going from two lovers aged 17 and 18 having consensual sex, to a 50 year old man having 'consensual' sex with an eight-year old. I think that is a tricky question, and I kind of think Alex flunked it.

...but I think you shouldn't hand-waive past Gordon's point.
let me defend my hand waving because you and Gordon have missed the point.

speak to any expert on sex crimes against children and they'll tell you it's not about sex. it's about power. it's about violence. go back to the bob hamer interview. the pathetic people he was rubbing shoulders with we're devising plans to crush souls... not have sex.
 
#16
TALKING EVIL WITH ALEX TSAKIRIS
Gordon10 hours ago

Gordon White just posted this on runesoup. fun chat... what do you guys think?

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

The one and only Alex Tsakiris joins us this week for an extended and challenging discussion on the nature of evil.
Alex is in the process of writing a book on the subject, pulling together the testimony and opinions of multiple guests on his excellent podcast, Skeptiko. What does psi data tell us about the possible existence of evil? What about cross-cultural comparisons? We have a frank and confronting discussion.
This is a firecracker of an episode. Or maybe I just smell brimstone?
Download the episode directly here, or listen along on YouTube below.
Alex, I would be interested in you thoughts on the social justice movement. At it's core it is a racist, misogynist and just plain evil cult masquerading as the opposite of those things. It has infiltrated large corporations, universities and governments. The Hollywood elite have all signed on as adherents. If you voice any opposition to the cult your youtube videos will be demontotised or deleted and friends will shun you out of fear. It's the new Scientology.

The SJW cult is based on the book White Fragility by Robin DiAngelo, who reportedly charges $10000 to absolve "privileged white" people of their sin of racism. According to her ideology, people are born racist (yes, babies are racist too) so it isn't really such a bad thing to be racist. That's why people belonging to the cult can get away with things like wearing blackface. They paid their money to DiAngelo, so it's fine. It's a weird mixture of Post-Modernism and Marxism in which individuals don't really exist. You belong to a particular group and are expected to follow the rules of that group. Oh, and the rules change daily so that people can't ever be sure when they have crossed the line (cancel culture). At it's core, the book promotes segregation of races and racism itself.

This is a snippet from an interview with Kari Smith in which she talks about the evil of this movement. The whole interview is worth watching, but this segment gets to the core of how insidiously evil this new religion is.

 
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#17
Alex, I would be interested in you thoughts on the social justice movement. At it's core it is a racist, misogynist and just plain evil cult masquerading as the opposite of those things. It has infiltrated large corporations, universities and governments. The Hollywood elite have all signed on as adherents. If you voice any opposition to the cult your youtube videos will be demontotised or deleted and friends will shun you out of fear. It's the new Scientology.

The SJW cult is based on the book White Fragility by Robin DiAngelo, who reportedly charges $10000 to absolve "privileged white" people of their sin of racism. According to her ideology, people are born racist (yes, babies are racist too) so it isn't really such a bad thing to be racist. That's why people belonging to the cult can get away with things like wearing blackface. They paid their money to DiAngelo, so it's fine. It's a weird mixture of Post-Modernism and Marxism in which individuals don't really exist. You belong to a particular group and are expected to follow the rules of that group. Oh, and the rules change daily so that people can't ever be sure when they have crossed the line (cancel culture). At it's core, the book promotes segregation of races and racism itself.

This is a snippet from an interview with Kari Smith in which she talks about the evil of this movement. The whole interview is worth watching, but this segment gets to the core of how insidiously evil this new religion is.

That's quite a charge! The whole social justice movement is an evil cult???
 
#18
That's quite a charge! The whole social justice movement is an evil cult???
Watch the video. Actually, I recommend the full interview. I had no idea until I had my own run-in with cancel culture. I saw people being horribly abusive to Trump supporters who did nothing to deserve it. When I questioned what they were doing, I was attacked too. (I'm not a Trump supporter, but no one should be attacked that way.) It seemed all very irrational, and when I suggested we calm down and discuss things rationally, then they really went nuts and told me that I was just trying to trick them. Logic was bad because it misled people according to the SJWs.

I wondered what was going on, so I did some research and found out that the movement is pretty much a typical cult. They get you involved by appealing to your goodness. You want to make the world a better place, right? Who doesn't? But there is an underlying racism and just plain badness to the whole thing. They are a large, scary and unpredictable group. That is why everyone, particularly the news media, won't say anything bad about them. No one wants to be cancelled.

One of their weapons is to call anyone who disagrees with them a racist. The term has lost all meaning. They dehumanize people who disagree with them by using the word Natzi. It's OK to punch Natzis, isn't it?

Now they are erasing history, deleting American Culture and replacing it with anarchy and chaos. It's right out of the KJB handbook on how to destabilize a country.

 
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#20
come on... really? are you just trying to push my buttons?
I promise I am being sincere. I have been immersed in the afterlife FB groups, where no one uses the term 'extended conciousness." Instead they discuss the afterlife realm(s), the astral realm(s), the higher vibration realms, et al. So talking of consciousness as extended seems limiting, as there is so much going on in these realms besides consciousness -- for example an OBEr discovering astral / near earth L.A.

Given this way of looking at things on my part, I hope you can see why I can't understand your statement that evil might be a lens into extended consciousness. There are evil entities in the afterlife realms, so why would we need evil as a lens to know that??
 
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