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#5
My first thought was the book written by Alexander Shulgin. I'm not going to bother to point to it. You can find it if you are interested. He would have completely different experiences depending on which chemical compound he was experimenting with. Some, like Ecstasy (which he invented) seemed to fill him with love. Others made him feel basically evil.
 
#6
Maybe it's just me, or the dated language of the script, but it almost seems like every time I come across an account like this, It's cloaked in so much gobbledygook. Nonsensical phrases and such. Almost makes me think they might have just fried their brain.

However, I have also heard of other accounts using DMT where they confronted their own annihilation or death, but then push past that and are reborn into an even greater reality. So, perhaps there are levels or layers to reality. Perhaps this "annihilation" is the shedding of the human ego, which then allows one to progress toward the infinite. A necessary transition phase to help us transition from this reality to true reality. Much like an astronaut on the space station must take the time to transition from life in space to life on earth.
 
#7
Maybe it's just me, or the dated language of the script, but it almost seems like every time I come across an account like this, It's cloaked in so much gobbledygook. Nonsensical phrases and such. Almost makes me think they might have just fried their brain.

However, I have also heard of other accounts using DMT where they confronted their own annihilation or death, but then push past that and are reborn into an even greater reality. So, perhaps there are levels or layers to reality. Perhaps this "annihilation" is the shedding of the human ego, which then allows one to progress toward the infinite. A necessary transition phase to help us transition from this reality to true reality. Much like an astronaut on the space station must take the time to transition from life in space to life on earth.
It's from many decades ago, hence the yesteryear turn of phrase. The guy was also a self-confessed intellectual, which may also play a part. Still, it is interesting that when intellectuals have these experiences (NDE included) they tend to be out of the norm. Ayer, for example.
 
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#8
Huffing gas, smoking DMT, smoking marijuana, inhaling ether, and the substance the author used--they will all give a unique experience that likely has as much to do with the substance as anything else. I'm not sure why this account would gain any more credence with you than any other account of someone under the influence of a mind altering substance?

Is it more interesting to you because he is an intellectual or because he uses language that is somewhat contorted?

If you read about Daumal he was an extreme spiritual seeker. Any experience he would have had would be seen through the lens of "spirituality."
 
#9
I don't think it's any more or less "credible"...it's really just another experience that might be brain based or might not be, as applies to any typical NDE. It does intrigue me though that it may hint at causes more than the typical NDE, or may be closer to those causes.
 
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#10
I don't think it's any more or less "credible"...it's really just another experience that might be brain based or might not be, as applies to any typical NDE. It does intrigue me though that it may hint at causes more than the typical NDE, or may be closer to those causes.
Can you say a bit more. What are you referring to as "causes?"
 
#11
Well, they could by physiological causes, if consciousness comes about that way. Or they could be deeper principles of manifestation, if one wants to take a more metaphysical stance. Either way, the thing that hits me between the eyes, and also on the "not so nice NDE" thread elsewhere posted, is where these supposedly loving beings of light were, and wonderful spiritual planes, in all of this. Looks like we got a view of the stage machinery.
 
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#12
Well, they could by physiological causes, if consciousness comes about that way. Or they could be deeper principles of manifestation, if one wants to take a more metaphysical stance. Either way, the thing that hits me between the eyes, and also on the "not so nice NDE" thread elsewhere posted, is where these supposedly loving beings of light were, and wonderful spiritual planes, in all of this. Looks like we got a view of the stage machinery.
So what is your take on the similarities we see in DMT trips? View of the machinery?
 
#13
I've never been big on the "similar experiences" argument. We all have similar brains. In fact, our bodies and their physiological function are all greater than 99% similar.
 
#14
Or they could be deeper principles of manifestation, if one wants to take a more metaphysical stance. Either way, the thing that hits me between the eyes, and also on the "not so nice NDE" thread elsewhere posted, is where these supposedly loving beings of light were, and wonderful spiritual planes, in all of this. Looks like we got a view of the stage machinery.
If you were to take a much deeper look, you would realize that questions like "where are the loving beings of light" are quite naive, and at the level of depth one would expect to find in a discussion of death on the "Oprah" show. A good deal of the "stage machinery" has been observed, contemplated, speculated on, and analyzed going all the way back to the time of Patenjali, including concepts like "the dweller on the threshold." It seems to me just as wise to spend time contemplating why we see evidence of past-life memories, birthmarks, scars, and deformites, that follow us without our conscious involvement as it is to be fascinated with fears of total annihilation.

Cheers,
Bill
 
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#15
I've never been big on the "similar experiences" argument. We all have similar brains. In fact, our bodies and their physiological function are all greater than 99% similar.
So what would make the author's experience one iota more valid than any other such experience?
 
#16
If you were to take a much deeper look, you would realize that questions like "where are the loving beings of light" are quite naive, and at the level of depth one would expect to find in a discussion of death on the "Oprah" show. A good deal of the "stage machinery" has been observed, contemplated, speculated on, and analyzed going all the way back to the time of Patenjali, including concepts like "the dweller on the threshold." It seems to me just as wise to spend time contemplating why we see evidence of past-life memories, birthmarks, scars, and deformites, that follow us without our conscious involvement as it is to be fascinated with fears of total annihilation.

Cheers,
Bill
Well, admittedly we don't have ancient nitrous oxide experiences to compare. I'm not really sure that I perceive what you are criticizing here. If one takes loving "beings of light" and "nonphysical worlds" to be real, then asking where were these loving and moral beings in, say, JWL's experience, or NEB's experience, is a perfectly legitimate one.
 
#17
So what would make the author's experience one iota more valid than any other such experience?
I'm not making a strong case that it is. But, for one thing, it is a lot less obviously culturally derived than visions of yamatoots and the Lord of Death.
 
#18
I'm not making a strong case that it is. But, for one thing, it is a lot less obviously culturally derived than visions of yamatoots and the Lord of Death.
What do you see as the difference between a culturally derived transcendent experience vs. an experience that is not? What assumption or conclusion is there to be drawn from the fact that some people have culturally derived/influenced experiences while others don't?
 
#19
If one takes loving "beings of light" and "nonphysical worlds" to be real, then asking where were these loving and moral beings in, say, JWL's experience, or NEB's experience, is a perfectly legitimate one.
If one takes "beings of light" to be real, they would strive to learn what conditions are conducive to observing them, rather than ask "where were they" in any given situation. Maybe JWL or NEB were in "dark" moods when they had their experiences.

Cheers,
Bill
 
#20
If one takes "beings of light" to be real, they would strive to learn what conditions are conducive to observing them, rather than ask "where were they" in any given situation. Maybe JWL or NEB were in "dark" moods when they had their experiences.

Cheers,
Bill
JWL was not in a "dark mood" at all. Any dark mood for NEB was undoubtedly generated by her experience. But again, you are assuming a whole supertext whereby beings of light aren't perceivable or contactable if someone is in a "dark mood."
 
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