Th situation in Sweden

#1
Went to a dinner party y-day, mentioned some of the things regardning doubts about strict darwinian evolution, among 8 people, all very well educated and active teachers in higher education, none of them had even heard about such a thing.
One even proposed that if such thing ever were to turn up its ugly face here in such tendency should be actively persecuted, because by definition it cannot be possible to question even a tiny fraction of darwinian theory, and such discourse can only exist in precivilized cultures (will not mention what country they refered to).

I think it is quite amazing, what is the situation in your parts?
 
#2
One even proposed that if such thing ever were to turn up its ugly face here in such tendency should be actively persecuted, because by definition it cannot be possible to question even a tiny fraction of darwinian theory, and such discourse can only exist in precivilized cultures (will not mention what country they refered to).
Wow. Such dogma. I had imagined Sweden would have been much more open to different ideas.
 

Brian_the_bard

Lost Pilgrim
Member
#3
Wow. Such dogma. I had imagined Sweden would have been much more open to different ideas.
It usually is. The people here are mostly very forward thinking, open minded and intelligent. Good natured too. I don't know who these people are that hasseg has been talking to.
 
#6
I see what you mean with dogmatic, but I am not entirely sure that is how they perceive themselves, being a social Darwinist has been the progressive stand for ages here, although that particular view is being toned down presently, slimmed down to Darwinian view it is still the only acknowledge view, and as I wrote any other is not even known. Maybe just the odd one, for instance a friend of mine who is doctor in cell biology, have heard about some doubts, but that always is coupled with creationism and right wing church fanatics.
After have spent more than ten years at the Uni and know more than well that my own doubts about Darwinian theory cannot not be expressed other than as something I have heard, otherwise you will not get a honest reaction. You get a smile and you will henceforth be referred to someone who is a sworn enemy to science or/and unbalanced. There is no room anywhere in schools nor higher education for any alternatives, and all alternatives are seen as doctrinaire and small-mindedness. (yes it is paradoxical in a way).


This is among academia, and the ones in charge of education in the country, it does not mean that people in general are not "good natured". But it should still have an effect on the actions of the general public. Somehow belief end in action or attitude.
 
#12
Octadence, it's Greek to me...

Why, I would probably say that the example I gave is quite representative of Sweden. The Swedish expression is that this country is a "duck pond", meaning that there is only room for one view, one way of thinking.

One example below, a pricey tax paid event called a Science festival, that promotes healthy sane science over madness.


This caught my attention yesterday, especially since the subject was up here in the thread, the heading in the magazine says "Evolution theory to be proven wrong*" Something that is so beyond the pale here that there are hardly any words for it. But I had failed to see the *. And a bit below, one can read something like "There is no chance such drivel would ever appear in this event". Blimey, persecution is already out there, backed up with tax money and state authority. Almost a 100.000 visitors last year, one in every fifth of that town's population.

http://vetenskapsfestivalen.se/v2/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/Vetenskapsfestivalen_low.pdf
 
#13
Hm interesting. As an Englishman I'd be very reluctant to describe any similar behaviour over here as "typically English"". Society is far too diverse.
 
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#14
Octadence, it's Greek to me...

Why, I would probably say that the example I gave is quite representative of Sweden. The Swedish expression is that this country is a "duck pond", meaning that there is only room for one view, one way of thinking.
I see your point and actually that's one of the many reasons why I love Sweden :). When I think of Sweden, I think of trygghet - for those who do not speak Swedish, it means basically "(feeling of) safety, security, protection". What is more reassuring than rational, shared understanding? Swedes seem to me determined to convince themselves and others that calm rationality is the solution to all problems. Indeed, a rational approach to life works quite well (but incidentally requires people to stay sober at all times :)....) , and Sweden is definitely my favourite place on Earth because of this hopeful and idealistic approach to existence. Solving everything with rationality is certainly my dream, but I no longer believe it is possible to make it come true. Reality is sadly not (entirely) rational. Science is a rational pursuit, hence incomplete - I'll add "sadly" again, because that's how I feel about this realisation. Life was better when I thought that it was potentially describable in a way that my logical mind would understand. I've lost that hope.
 
#15
Went to a dinner party y-day, mentioned some of the things regardning doubts about strict darwinian evolution, among 8 people, all very well educated and active teachers in higher education, none of them had even heard about such a thing.
One even proposed that if such thing ever were to turn up its ugly face here in such tendency should be actively persecuted, because by definition it cannot be possible to question even a tiny fraction of darwinian theory, and such discourse can only exist in precivilized cultures (will not mention what country they refered to).

I think it is quite amazing, what is the situation in your parts?
I think you are seeing a little of the phenomenon we talk about a lot here - science gone off the rails - maybe a better phrase might even be "science gone mad".

Take a look at this massive thread,covering a whole range of subjects, to appreciate just how bad things have become.

http://www.skeptiko-forum.com/threads/critiques-of-science-as-currently-praticed.2959/

David
 
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Brian_the_bard

Lost Pilgrim
Member
#17
I see your point and actually that's one of the many reasons why I love Sweden :). When I think of Sweden, I think of trygghet - for those who do not speak Swedish, it means basically "(feeling of) safety, security, protection". What is more reassuring than rational, shared understanding? Swedes seem to me determined to convince themselves and others that calm rationality is the solution to all problems. Indeed, a rational approach to life works quite well (but incidentally requires people to stay sober at all times :)....) , and Sweden is definitely my favourite place on Earth because of this hopeful and idealistic approach to existence. Solving everything with rationality is certainly my dream, but I no longer believe it is possible to make it come true. Reality is sadly not (entirely) rational. Science is a rational pursuit, hence incomplete - I'll add "sadly" again, because that's how I feel about this realisation. Life was better when I thought that it was potentially describable in a way that my logical mind would understand. I've lost that hope.
Take the idea of calm rationality into your own life but don't hang your hopes on everybody else following. As Bob Dylan once wrote "You talk about a life of brotherly love but show me someone who knows how to live it" (BTW Gothenburg buses and trams are anything but calm and rational!;))
 

Brian_the_bard

Lost Pilgrim
Member
#18
I think you are seeing a little of the phenomenon we talk about a lot here - science gone off the rails - maybe a better phrase might even be "science gone mad".

Take a look at this massive thread,covering a whole range of subjects, to appreciate just how bad things have become.

David
Is there supposed to be a link here?
 
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