The afterlife and existence after death

Could you please stop the spamming stuff? I actually started this as a serious thread. I dont care about a bit of fun, but dont overdo it please.

Haruhi said:
You forgot this article?

http://www.newdualism.org/papers/S.Hameroff/QSoulchap.PDF

PS: we have two Haruhi in the forum!
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I didnt forget, im just slow. Give me a bit more time there. Same goes for tim's nde-video. I will go trough all of it, im just very slow because i want to understand as much as i can of it.

Typoz said:
I don't see this argument as carrying any great weight. Some characteristics are neither positive nor negative, they neither increase nor reduce chances of survival. In such a case the characteristic can simply get passed on to the next generation unchanged.
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I dont know if this explains why nde's are still there. If nde's are getting created by our brains (the case is propably totally different if we assume that nde's are not getting created by just our brains, so ill leave that aside there) they must serve a function. Its kind of weird to me that it should be something like "nde's are there so that we can die happy". I dont know about that. There is no reason for nature to let us experience something like a nde with a meaning like that while we are dying. And if it wouldnt serve a function, well - if our muscles dont serve any function they grow back (astronauts are a good example there). Why isnt it the same with nde's if they are getting created by the brain? I just dont understand that. And its not like nde's just got passed on to like the next generation and after that they vanish. They were common through the ages in several different cultures. I believe it to be weird that something that serves no function at all is so far-spread.
 
DasMurmeltier said:
Could you please stop the spamming stuff? I actually started this as a serious thread. I dont care about a bit of fun, but dont overdo it please.
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You're right, sorry...

I dont know if this explains why nde's are still there. If nde's are getting created by our brains (the case is propably totally different if we assume that nde's are not getting created by just our brains, so ill leave that aside there) they must serve a function. Its kind of weird to me that it should be something like "nde's are there so that we can die happy". I dont know about that. There is no reason for nature to let us experience something like a nde with a meaning like that while we are dying. And if it wouldnt serve a function, well - if our muscles dont serve any function they grow back (astronauts are a good example there). Why isnt it the same with nde's if they are getting created by the brain? I just dont understand that. And its not like nde's just got passed on to like the next generation and after that they vanish. They were common through the ages in several different cultures. I believe it to be weird that something that serves no function at all is so far-spread.
Click to expand...

Yes, this is exactly along the lines of the question I was trying to ask! Actually, it's better than my question. Clearly I need to work on writing better questions.
 
DasMurmeltier said:
Could you please stop the spamming stuff? I actually started this as a serious thread. I dont care about a bit of fun, but dont overdo it please.



I didnt forget, im just slow. Give me a bit more time there. Same goes for tim's nde-video. I will go trough all of it, im just very slow because i want to understand as much as i can of it.



I dont know if this explains why nde's are still there. If nde's are getting created by our brains (the case is propably totally different if we assume that nde's are not getting created by just our brains, so ill leave that aside there) they must serve a function. Its kind of weird to me that it should be something like "nde's are there so that we can die happy". I dont know about that. There is no reason for nature to let us experience something like a nde with a meaning like that while we are dying. And if it wouldnt serve a function, well - if our muscles dont serve any function they grow back (astronauts are a good example there). Why isnt it the same with nde's if they are getting created by the brain? I just dont understand that. And its not like nde's just got passed on to like the next generation and after that they vanish. They were common through the ages in several different cultures. I believe it to be weird that something that serves no function at all is so far-spread.
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Evolutionary wise... Organisms with both neurons and centrioles seem to have developed later, than organisms with just centrioles. So neurons are a later evolutionary development.

If you navigate in space-time, because you're a mobile organism, it seems you probably need a centriole. (Centrioles are formed from microtubules).

Higher plants don't have centrioles - that's flowering plants etc. They don't move around either, but they seem to have been successful in attracting the attention of organisms which do move around.

The point I'm trying to make is that the NDE and NDE OBE might be the result of the exposing of a fallback to an earlier evolutionary state.

One thing that happens very rapidly during cardiac arrest, is the collapse in measured EEG, as neurons in the energy compromised brain cease to fire.

That would leave leave the brain, which is jam packed with microtubule structures (similar to those that form the centriole), temporarily in a state, similar to that which existed in earlier non-neuron organisms.

There is plenty of research which indicates that cell centrioles are sensitive to electromagnetic fields, and appear to operate in a sensory, processing and organisational capacity.

I've gathered loads of other data too, far to much to go into here. But it all seems quite supportive of the idea that when neurons suddenly stop firing in the brain during cardiac arrest, the microtubule structures temporarily continue to function, just as they still do in early simple organisms which contain centrioles, but no neurons.

In my view, neurons just relay sensory data to the brains microtubule structures in a feedback loop. It's these microtubule structures in the brain (cilia and centrioles too) which do the heavy lifting, as far as processing, organising, navigating in this 'reality' goes.

Considering neurons - their energy intensive firing achieves at least two things in my view... It presents relayed EM field data to the microtubules from specialised senses, and it also 'actively' shields the microtubules from external fields - making us an individual in the process, and enabling us to operate somewhat independently - that seems rather useful to any organism that is mobile in space-time.

(The assumption I'm making here is that the microtubules do their processing outside of space-time - what we would describe as quantum)
 
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Max_B said:
Evolutionary wise... Organisms with both neurons and centrioles seem to have developed later, than organisms with just centrioles. So neurons are a later evolutionary development.

If you navigate in space-time, because you're a mobile organism, it seems you probably need a centriole. (Centrioles are formed from microtubules).

Higher plants don't have centrioles - that's flowering plants etc. They don't move around either, but they seem to have been successful in attracting the attention of organisms which do move around.

The point I'm trying to make is that the NDE and NDE OBE might be the result of the exposing of a fallback to an earlier evolutionary state.

One thing that happens very rapidly during cardiac arrest, is the collapse in measured EEG, as neurons in the energy compromised brain cease to fire.

That would leave leave the brain, which is jam packed with microtubule structures (similar to those that form the centriole), temporarily in a state, similar to that which existed in earlier non-neuron organisms.

There is plenty of research which indicates that cell centrioles are sensitive to electromagnetic fields, and appear to operate in a sensory, processing and organisational capacity.

I've gathered loads of other data too, far to much to go into here. But it all seems quite supportive of the idea that when neurons suddenly stop firing in the brain during cardiac arrest, the microtubule structures temporarily continue to function, just as they still do in early simple organisms which contain centrioles, but no neurons.

In my view, neurons just relay sensory data to the brains microtubule structures in a feedback loop. It's these microtubule structures in the brain (cilia and centrioles too) which do the heavy lifting, as far as processing, organising, navigating in this 'reality' goes.

Considering neurons - their energy intensive firing achieves at least two things in my view... It presents relayed EM field data to the microtubules from specialised senses, and it also 'actively' shields the microtubules from external fields - making us an individual in the process, and enabling us to operate somewhat independently - that seems rather useful to any organism that is mobile in space-time.

(The assumption I'm making here is that the microtubules do their processing outside of space-time - what we would describe as quantum)
Click to expand...

Wouldnt that mean that when the microtubles stop to function our existence ceases to be? Or could there be something on a quatum level (i mean, you imply that it comes down to QM, right?)? Idk, the paper that got quoted here on the quantum soul could propably fit in here? The "afterlife" could be rather unplausible if that what you are describing would be true.

And if i interpret what you wrote correctly, you say that NDE's are a product of a dying a brain of some sort. Do i understand you correctly there?
 
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