The Donald Trump Thread

When the US was founded, the colonies came together freely to form a federal republic. In order to get the smaller colonies to agree to join with the larger ones, the constitution had to offer protections that would make it hard for the more populous states to impose their will on smaller states that might have different interests. Since that time, many more states joined the union under the same contract.

Are the people who want to eliminate the electoral college willing to dissolve the US and negotiate a new constitution? Or do they just want to change the contract unilaterally and impose their will on the less populous states, reneging on the agreements that were made when those states joined the union?

What about eliminating the US senate where each state, large or small, has exactly two representatives? How is that democratic? You don't hear them advocating that because the republicans have a huge majority in the house of representatives where states are represented in proportion to their population, while in the senate the republicans only have a 52 - 48 seat majority. You don't hear them complaining about the senate because they are not really interested in democracy, they are interested in power. Their arguments advocating the elimination of the electoral college in the interest of fairness and democracy are cynical not sincere.
 
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When the US was founded, the colonies came together freely to form a federal republic. In order to get the smaller colonies to agree to join with the larger ones, the constitution had to offer protections that would make it hard for the more populous states to impose their will on smaller states that might have different interests. Since that time, many more states joined the union under the same contract.

Are the people who want to eliminate the electoral college willing to dissolve the US and negotiate a new constitution? Or do they just want to change the contract unilaterally and impose their will on the less populous states, reneging on the agreements that were made when those states joined the union?

What about eliminating the US senate where each state, large or small, has exactly two representatives? How is that democratic? You don't hear them advocating that because the republicans have a huge majority in the house of representatives where states are represented in proportion to their population, while in the senate the republicans only have a 52 - 48 seat majority. You don't hear them complaining about the senate because they are not really interested in democracy, they are interested in power. Their arguments advocating the elimination of the electoral college in the interest of fairness and democracy are cynical not sincere.
Indeed. However, I'm not sure what it says about "the will of the people" when we try and export "democracy" around the world.

This is a massive popular vote win for a losing candidate. Coming, as it does, after such a polarising, divisive campaign makes for a very difficult presidential mandate. Fortunately he's a smart guy: http://nypost.com/2016/12/11/trump-im-smart-i-dont-need-intelligence-briefings-everyday/
 
Their arguments advocating the elimination of the electoral college in the interest of fairness and democracy are cynical not sincere.
Quite correct. And anyway, as I've pointed out before, making the presidential election one by popular vote would change everything. At present, people probably don't bother voting in states with a significant majority that opposes their own choice: it'd be pointless in an electoral college system. In a popular vote system, however, there'd actually be a point in voting, since everyone's vote would count. Democrats should be careful what they wish for: it could well be that there's a natural majority of republican voters in the USA.
 
Quite correct. And anyway, as I've pointed out before, making the presidential election one by popular vote would change everything. At present, people probably don't bother voting in states with a significant majority that opposes their own choice: it'd be pointless in an electoral college system. In a popular vote system, however, there'd actually be a point in voting, since everyone's vote would count.
And who would want that? :eek:
 
What I heard is that most of the electors are partisan, they chose to be electors for a party because they believe in that candidate/party so it is not likely many will change their vote. There was antipathy toward Trump among many republicans before the election but now they are all very excited about what they will be able to achieve with a republican president and congress and they are unlikely to prevent a republican president from taking office. Electors might feel some pressure to change their vote because of the media hoopla against Trump but they would also have to face the voters in their states so there is also counter pressure to keep them honest. Congress has to approve the vote of the electoral college and since congress has a republican majority in both houses, it is not likely that if the vote is altered that they will accept the altered vote. Also Trump has Thank You Tour rallies on Tuesday, Thursday, Friday, and Saturday, and the electoral college then votes next Monday (Now we see why he is doing the Thank You Tour.). Trump also has the generals in his cabinet and the army and navy cadets are on his side too. I think overturning the election is a long shot.

https://www.archives.gov/federal-register/electoral-college/roles.html
The Congress is scheduled to meet in joint session in the House of Representatives on January 6, 2017 to conduct the official tally of electoral votes. The Vice President, as President of the Senate, is the presiding officer. Two tellers are appointed to open, present and record the votes of the States in alphabetical order. The President of the Senate announces the results of the vote and declares which persons, if any, have been elected President and Vice President of the United States. The results are entered into the official journals of the House and Senate. The President of the Senate then calls for objections to be made. If any objections are registered, they must be submitted in writing and be signed by at least one member of the House and Senate. The House and Senate would withdraw to their respective chambers to consider the merits of any objections according the procedure set out under 3 U.S.C. section 15.
It is unlikely that Trump will be prevented from taking office, but it is more likely that a different Republican will be put in office than it is that Clinton will be.
 
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Indeed. However, I'm not sure what it says about "the will of the people" when we try and export "democracy" around the world.

This is a massive popular vote win for a losing candidate. Coming, as it does, after such a polarising, divisive campaign makes for a very difficult presidential mandate. Fortunately he's a smart guy: http://nypost.com/2016/12/11/trump-im-smart-i-dont-need-intelligence-briefings-everyday/
The US has had this wacky way of electing presidents for a very long time. The time to change it is not after it has been used to elect a president, but before the next presidential election. If President-elect Trump had spread his efforts evenly across all states, he would likely have won the popular vote and lost in the electoral college. If that had happened the media (which has far too much control nowadays) would have barely even mentioned the fact,and Clinton would have had the green light for a full confrontation with Russia.

I will cheer when he is safely into the White House - this is still a tense time!

David
 
I think overturning the election is a long shot.
Thanks Jim. Here is the type of thing that I'm seeing on Facebook.

Robert Reich

So far this weekend, I've received phone calls from three electors who say they have doubts that Donald Trump should be chosen by the Electoral College next week (December 19). They tell me they've been in contact with other electors who feel the same way.

I don't want to get your hopes up about this. Chances are, the Electoral College will still give Trump the 270 votes he needs to become President of the United States. But I find it interesting that several electors are at least raising this question.

In my view, electors have a constitutional duty not to vote for Donald Trump. The framers of the Constitution established the Electoral College to guard against two possibilities: either that a demagogue might be elected, or that a foreign power might influence the outcome of a presidential election. Trump epitomizes both of these concerns.

What do you think?

I am still getting peed off by the attitude of some of the democratic supporters, there seems to be an almost religious attitude of 'We're in the right' that pervades. It is the same way with many of the people that voted Remain, they just seem unable to come to terms with 'how things are'.

I think it's really interesting as well as depressing.

The manipulation of everything but very little heart in anything appears to be what I see most days. What will change this? Should it be changed?
 
How many electors have actually said they are going to change their vote? Trump won 306 electoral votes, he needs 270. Three unnamed individuals "having doubts" and others who "feel the same way" is not the same as 36 named individuals who say in public they are going to change their vote. When you get vague descriptions instead of specific details it sometimes means someone is trying to create an impression of something he can't do definitively with hard facts.
 
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I am still getting peed off by the attitude of some of the democratic supporters, there seems to be an almost religious attitude of 'We're in the right' that pervades. It is the same way with many of the people that voted Remain, they just seem unable to come to terms with 'how things are'.
This attitude is why many people voted against Clinton. Four more years and the democrats might have subverted the system to the point where it would become impossible get them out of power without a revolution. The attempt to subvert the electoral college shows that those fears were well founded.
 
Which of his campaign promises are you so looking forward to him fulfilling?
To me none of that really matters.

Trump is indirectly teaching me a load of stuff that wouldn't be available had Hillary won, the same thing with the Remainers (I was one btw). To me the way things seem to be working adds to my strong sense of there being a 'bigger picture'.

Watch out Malf, there's woo about!!! ;)
 
I'm seeing a lot of articles that seem to be trying to scare people, even trying to create divisions between people on the same side. I suppose the media is always trying to get more clicks for ad revenue and get people fired up to support a political agends. It's too bad. It creates much of the polarization. Then because people are primed and upset, the stories can become self-fulfilling. I think you have to be skeptical about much of what is out there - lots of fake news from all sides - creating news and stimulating events, rather than just reporting facts.
 
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http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/trump-undone-by-electors-forget-it/article/2609484


State legislatures have almost total power over how electors are chosen, so if a massive wave of electors decided to break from their pledge, the state legislature could effectively choose their own slate.

Since most of the state legislatures in this country are majority Republican, that serves as a pretty good barrier against defecting electors.

 
http://www.politico.com/story/2016/12/rnc-trump-electoral-college-232537

The Republican National Committee is overseeing an expansive whip operation designed to lock down Donald Trump’s Electoral College majority and ensure that the 306 Republican electors cast their votes for the president-elect.

Two RNC sources familiar with the effort said the committee — with the assistance of state Republican parties and the Trump campaign — have been in touch with most of the GOP electors multiple times, and has concluded that only one is a risk to cast a vote against Trump on Dec. 19, when the Electoral College meets.​
 
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