Mod+ The Excess Correlation Project

#1
Michael Persinger's Neuroscience Research Group believes they have come up with a device to facilitate psi functioning.

http://excesscorrelation.net/

Excess Correlation between pairs of individuals separated by extreme distances has been demonstrated by the Neuroscience Research Group’s Consciousness Laboratory. The interdisciplinary team of scientists who completed this study would like to make open how it works, how you can replicate this study, and how you can experience non-local information processing for yourself.
 
Last edited:
#2
I am having issues with all but the first and last video. From what I can tell, the devices are separate and do not interact directly (by devices I mean the hardware), but the setup is explained in videos that are not playing in my phone.

Anyways... Is he claiming that this coil is inducing activity in the right hemisphere and that the brains that find themselves in these "altered states" find it easier to correlate? Wouldn't this be akin to the cases that report psi during meditation/some dreams, where both indivuals remain separate, but reducing the "noise" facilitates telepathy?

I never took Persinger's helmet that seriously, so I have no idea what is the take on his work among the people here. I recall that there were replication issues with his previous work. How do they relate to this?
 
Last edited:
#4
Thanks, I will read these with patience, but its funny how this test was not met with the same sensationalist hype that the helmet one, despite being carried out by the same people. Perhaps because he is now proposing some form of non-locality? I will need to read it to find out.
 
#5
This looks really interesting. I came to realise that the thing about Persinger, is to read about his experiments, but ignore his interpretation. I once got into a brief email discussion with one of his associates (the conversation was private, so I won't mention his name). I wrote to him about the seemingly insuperable problems about Persinger's idea that ESP was transmitted on the 7Hz band of the electromagnetic spectrum.

Eventually, he said that he saw science a sort of game - fitting the data to the current model of reality (or words to that effect) as well as possible. It was an incredible eye opener - I mean Persinger is certainly doing fascinating work on consciousness, but when they come up with data that is inexplicable within modern science, they would rather come up with an obviously inadequate theory, than admit that they had evidence that could shake the foundations of science.

David
 
Last edited:
#6
This looks really interesting. I came to realise that the thing about Persinger, is to read about his experiments, but ignore his interpretation. I once got into a brief email discussion with one of his associates (the conversation was private, so I won't mention his name). I wrote to him about the seemingly insuperable problems about Persinger's idea that ESP was transmitted on the 7Hz band of the electromagnetic spectrum.

Eventually, he said that he saw science a sort of game - fitting the data to the current model of reality (or words to that effect) as well as possible. It was an incredible eye opener - I mean Persinger is certainly doing fascinating work on consciousness, but hen they come up with data that is inexplicable within modern science, they would rather come up with an obviously inadequate theory, than admit that they had evidence that could shake the foundations of science.

David
I agree David. Even if his interpretations were wrong, having a reliable and consistently reproducible way to induce ESP would be a game changer. Let's see if this lives up to the hype.

Unfortunately, even if it turns out to be the real deal, this can only deal with some of the psi phenomena. It certainly does not address when it manifests in something external, especially something dependent on circumstance, as in Jungian synchronicity.
 
#7
Unfortunately, even if it turns out to be the real deal, this can only deal with some of the psi phenomena. It certainly does not address when it manifests in something external, especially something dependent on circumstance, as in Jungian synchronicity.
Right - it just demonstrates in yet another way - that experimental setups that include humans can do things that are inconsistent with modern science. It should create enormous interest in the scientific world - they always say how they long for some new physics - but it won't! They won't even bother to make a serious effort to refute it, because getting close to 'woo' stuff is bad for your career!

David
 
#8
Trying to read Persinger's papers is a strange experience - as I have discovered before.
Excess correlation at spaces greater than quantum levels may appear to require physical conditions that allow the superposition of two loci such that they display the behavior of a single space. Based upon the conceptual approaches of Ernst Mach (1988), Sir Arthur Eddington (1981), Niehls Bohr (1958), and Hu and Wu (2006a, b; 2013), we had reasoned that the circular momentum of a quantized electromagnetic field could create the condition to facilitate entanglement between two loci (and the state of matter within those loci) separated by nontraditional distances (Persinger and Koren, 2013; 2014). The essential premise is that the physical mechanisms that serve as the substrate for entanglement reflect the properties of the entire universe as a unit within which differences in space and time may be less critical. It would be similar to Hu and Wu’s (2013) concept that it is a feature of the universe before space and time emerged as properties with which they are now recognized.
This strange paragraph contains references to the work of two astrophysicists, one of the discoverers of QM, and goodness knows what else - all embedded inside a paper about a practical study into correlations of brain waves! A bit further down, he starts discussing the Plank length (1.6 x 10^(-35) m)!

I don't know whether this is an attempt to prevent reviewers zeroing in on the fact that he is discussing brain-brain communication over a long distance - i.e. a form of ψ.

David
 
#11
Trying to read Persinger's papers is a strange experience - as I have discovered before.

This strange paragraph contains references to the work of two astrophysicists, one of the discoverers of QM, and goodness knows what else - all embedded inside a paper about a practical study into correlations of brain waves! A bit further down, he starts discussing the Plank length (1.6 x 10^(-35) m)!

I don't know whether this is an attempt to prevent reviewers zeroing in on the fact that he is discussing brain-brain communication over a long distance - i.e. a form of ψ.

David
He seems undecided how to explain it away... Is it entanglement? Some sort of EM signal? He doesn't know. It would be a lot easier to read if he simply focused on the "we created coordinated altered states and noted correlations" part, but trying to fit what he sees into a modified form of brain=mind makes the paper quite convoluted.
 
#12
If his experiments are replicated, I suppose he's attempting to build-up evidence that weak 30 nT magnetic fields have a measurable effect on human brains.

By showing correlated EEG measurements in two different AND spatially separated people at the same time (which are different from EEG measurements of people who have not been exposed), I suppose he's hoping to strengthen the available evidence that the human brain can pick up hyper-weak fields.

As birds and young turtles behaviour has been shown to be affected by similarly hyper-weak fields, it's logical to try and demonstrate some similar effect in humans.

Unfortunately, this experiment doesn't test for a human behavioural effect, just EEG measurements ...and these EEG measurements seem pretty basic, probably too basic to bring much weight to bear on this matter.

Never-the-less, I do suspect that the human brain's sensitivity to compatible hyper-weak magnetic fields, when it's own endogenous field loses power, is the cause of the verifiable NDE OBE.

Borgijin's rat experiment would be a good way of trying to expose such an effect - if it was tweaked.
 
#13
We know what you suspect, but you still haven't tried to explain those that include both the NDE and the so-called mystical elements, such as Parnia's "Mr. A" seeing a female being beckoning him to "float" into a corner before finding himself up there (implying that there was continuity; that this was not merely a death bed vision followed by a OBE, but that both were one in the same). The medical staff is not "sending" any visual or auditive information about that being. Worse yet, the timing is interesting, because he "floated" to where he was being previously invited, which is odd based on your "triangulation" concept (how could he control from which vantage point his brain was going to interpret the information "sent" to him before undergoing the OBE?).

There are other biological issues relevant to that and several OBE accounts that hindrance the processing of external sensorial information. First, the perception of colors is not really objective, what you see is dependent on the interpretation that your brain is giving to light, which leads us to the magical world of visual perception variables (more here: http://www.livescience.com/21275-color-red-blue-scientists.html). Also, I have a hard time reconciling when people like "Mr.A" say that they had "vivid" audible perception or the "clear as day" vision reported by so many, with the processing of information coming from the sensorial perception of multiple individuals. First, there is no control forcing every person in the room to have biologically compatible eyes and even if that was possible, there is no guarantee that the information relayed from the optic nerve would be compatible enough to get a "clear picture". But, being realistically, chances are that virtually everybody in the room was seeing a different picture of "Mr. A" being brought back due to tiny little things like astigmatism, myopia, etc. and even anatomical variations in the cornea of those that do not fall under these conditions.

Even if the brain could somehow process contrasting visual information into a single experience while undergoing cardiact arrest, there is no reasonable way that the "fidelity" would be smooth while trying to salvage other vital functions... At the very best it would be a blurry superimposition; a composite of different colors and sharpness, like looking trough old school anaglyph 3D glasses (or an unsophisticated kaleidoscope) while wearing glasses that have a bitoric lens in one side and a concave one in the other. We have enough (stereoscopic among several other) issues deciphering the information of a single set of eyes, nevermind a full OR of eyes. And, then you have to do this very exercise with hearing... With the final result being most likely more akin to a bad LSD trip than a "clear image".

PS- Also, you have so far ignored every mention of patients reporting things in out-of-sight places or "flying" trough the roof of buildings and several feet into the air made by other users. Even the infamous Maria's shoe case is a problem there, despite not going as far.
 
Last edited:
#14
We know what you suspect, but you still haven't tried to explain those that include both the NDE and the so-called mystical elements, such as Parnia's "Mr. A" seeing a female being beckoning him to "float" into a corner before finding himself up there (implying that there was continuity; that this was not merely a death bed vision followed by a OBE, but that both were one in the same). The medical staff is not "sending" any visual or auditive information about that being. Worse yet, the timing is interesting, because he "floated" to where he was being previously invited, which is odd based on your "triangulation" concept (how could he control from which vantage point his brain was going to interpret the information "sent" to him before undergoing the OBE?).

There are other biological issues relevant to that and several OBE accounts that hindrance the processing of external sensorial information. First, the perception of colors is not really objective, what you see is dependent on the interpretation that your brain is giving to light, which leads us to the magical world of visual perception variables (more here: http://www.livescience.com/21275-color-red-blue-scientists.html). Also, I have a hard time reconciling when people like "Mr.A" say that they had "vivid" audible perception or the "clear as day" vision reported by so many, with the processing of information coming from the sensorial perception of multiple individuals. First, there is no control forcing every person in the room to have biologically compatible eyes and even if that was possible, there is no guarantee that the information relayed from the optic nerve would be compatible enough to get a "clear picture". But, being realistically, chances are that virtually everybody in the room was seeing a different picture of "Mr. A" being brought back due to tiny little things like astigmatism, myopia, etc. and even anatomical variations in the cornea of those that do not fall under these conditions.

Even if the brain could somehow process contrasting visual information into a single experience while undergoing cardiact arrest, there is no reasonable way that the "fidelity" would be smooth while trying to salvage other vital functions... At the very best it would be a blurry superimposition; a composite of different colors and sharpness, like looking trough old school anaglyph 3D glasses (or an unsophisticated kaleidoscope) while wearing glasses that have a bitoric lens in one side and a concave one in the other. We have enough (stereoscopic among several other) issues deciphering the information of a single set of eyes, nevermind a full OR of eyes. And, then you have to do this very exercise with hearing... With the final result being most likely more akin to a bad LSD trip than a "clear image".

PS- Also, you have so far ignored every mention of patients reporting things in out-of-sight places or "flying" trough the roof of buildings and several feet into the air made by other users. Even the infamous Maria's shoe case is a problem there, despite not going as far.
I dunno what you expect me to say...

Other than I don't really find any of your comments particularly relevant, or posing any particular problem for my ideas... sorry.
 
#15
I dunno what you expect me to say...

Other than I don't really find any of your comments particularly relevant, or posing any particular problem for my ideas... sorry.
Well, that is one profound and detailed answer... Your theory is all about interacting "weak fields" feeding information from multiple sources to a weakened brain and yet you don't see a problem that the information is contrasting and likely incompatible? Really?
 
Last edited:
Top