Mod+ The spirit, the soul, reincarnation, and planes of existence

Ian Gordon

Ninshub
Member
#1
I have a question to throw out there to people who study this kind of "data" and reflect on such matters, which I might have trouble articulating, but I'll give it a go anyway.

In a recent interview that Bob Olson did promoting his new book (he's the one being interviewed by James Van Praagh), he maps out what he's come to as a personal research conclusion regarding the soul and the spirit, which isn't new, but is a perspective that makes some sense to me and that I come across elsewhere. This is the idea that your or my personality (he labels it "the spirit", the words don't matter) continues on pretty much as is upon death, and continues to grow in the afterlife.

Now, that's not what reincarnates, according to Bob. The spirit or personality-level entity/consciousness is a sliver of a Higher Self (he labels it "the soul"), which sends off different slivers of itself, creates different "spirits" if you will, who incarnate (and sometimes maybe don't?) and create and continue their own paths. So it's not "reincarnation" per se.

This explains why, for example, you rarely/never get a mediumship reading and are told "Sorry, you can't speak to uncle Bob, he's off reincarnating."

Now, again, this makes some sense to me. (And James Van Praagh says he agrees with Bob on this view.) But it does raise several questions, but I'll try to keep it to just a few.

If that is so, then what about what you often (always?) come across in classic Spiritualist mediumship, which tells of the spirit ascending different planes of existence (6, 7, 9, 10, whatever). How can this portrait of the "spirit"/personality-level consciousness climbing the ladder, so to speak (to become what? a Soul?), be reconciled with the portrait of the Soul or Higher Self sending out little portions of itself, different "spirits", to live their "lives" (in flesh or in spirit)? Am I the only having a difficulty with this here?

Second question/dilemma regarding the "planes of existence". If the "spirit" grows and crosses different planes (which, traditionally, means that when the spirit reaches higher planes, it's harder or becomes impossible to communicate with lower levels, including of course Earth life), does it really happen that you try and contact your uncle Bob through a medium and get told "Sorry, he's ascended to the 6th Plane, but here's your aunt Bertha instead"?

Anyone's free to share their thoughts, but I'm especially interested in answers or thoughts by people who immerse themselves in this "data", study these questions, and are not just inclined to philosophical speculation.

----
Here's where Bob spells his thoughts out, in answer to a caller:
33:48 to 37:30
 
#2
When you go to a medium, you don't ask for a spirit, the medium tells you about the spirits who are there who want to talk to you. Sometimes a spirit you were very close to in life never comes through a medium but spirits you were not as close to come through often. I never heard a medium say where the missing spirit was. I never heard a medium say that spirit can't come through because he is reincarnating or is too high to stoop to our level, but I do know there are some spirits who never come through mediums.

Regarding reincarnation and what it means to be a sliver of the oversoul... there are some things we will not really understand until we are spirits. For example, here is an NDEr explaining that after she returned from her NDE she could no longer understand some of the insights she had when disembodied. I think we have the same difficulty understanding the nature of identity and self, and our relation to the oversoul and soul group.
http://www.near-death.com/smith.html
A whole field of knowledge came in to my being and what I knew then was that the universe runs according to a perfect plan. I knew that the plan was perfect. Everything that we think about as being hard to understand or unfair or cruel or whatever, that was really all without meaning. I know that is very difficult, but I knew this. I understood it. I comprehended it in a way that when I came back from the experience I really couldn't comprehend anymore.
I suggest you ask your (first) question about how to reconcile slivers of spirits incarnating while advancing upward through the planes on this facebook group:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/evidenceforafterlife/

You have to log into facebook and join the group to ask question but there are many mediums in the group and others who have studied the subject.
 

Ian Gordon

Ninshub
Member
#3
Thanks for your reply, Jim.

When you go to a medium, you don't ask for a spirit, the medium tells you about the spirits who are there who want to talk to you. Sometimes a spirit you were very close to in life never comes through a medium but spirits you were not as close to come through often.
This I'm aware of.

I never heard a medium say that spirit can't come through because he is reincarnating or is too high to stoop to our level, but I do know there are some spirits who never come through mediums.
I think that goes towards what Bob Olson is suggesting, who's interviewed and worked with a lot of mediums to come to his research conclusions.

I suggest you ask your (first) question about how to reconcile slivers of spirits incarnating while advancing upward through the planes on this facebook group:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/evidenceforafterlife/

You have to log into facebook and join the group to ask question but there are many mediums in the group and others who have studied the subject.
Thanks for the suggestion, Jim. Hopefully I can join the group without needing to have a Facebook profle, since I don't have one or want one.
 
#4
I think that goes towards what Bob Olson is suggesting, who's interviewed and worked with a lot of mediums to come to his research conclusions.
Oh, I thought you meant the implication that you are never told "you can't get a message from uncle bob because he is reincarnating" is because he doesn't reincarnate. I was trying to say the reason you don't get messages like that is because the medium doesn't know why the spirit doesn't come through. The spirit might be reincarnating but you'll never be told.

Mediums are just one source of information and they don't all agree. If you look at what NDErs say or people who remember past lives, or even some mediums, you get a more definite assertion that the person does reincarnate. Here is what NDErs say:

http://ncu9nc.blogspot.com/2012/06/what-near-death-experiencers-have-to.html

It is pretty clear from these statements that we can't really understand the phenomenon. Bob Olsen is free to state his opinions, I hope he includes the raw data that he derives them from.

Thanks for the suggestion, Jim. Hopefully I can join the group without needing to have a Facebook profle, since I don't have one or want one.
I think you have to have a facebook account. If you create an account using a pseudonym, pick one that looks like a real name otherwise the facebook admins will delete your account. I don't like facebook either, this is the only thing I use it for but the group is worth it.
 
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Ian Gordon

Ninshub
Member
#5
Oh, I thought you meant the implication that you are never told "you can't get a message from uncle bob because he is reincarnating" is because he doesn't reincarnate. I was trying to say the reason you don't get messages like that is because the medium doesn't know why the spirit doesn't come through. The spirit might be reincarnating but you'll never be told.

Mediums are just one source of information and they don't all agree. If you look at what NDErs say or people who remember past lives, or even some mediums, you get a more definite assertion that the person does reincarnate. Here is what NDErs say:

http://ncu9nc.blogspot.com/2012/06/what-near-death-experiencers-have-to.html

It is pretty cleaer from these statements that we can't really understand the phenomenon. Bob Olsen is free to state his opinions, I hope he includes the raw data that he derives them from.
Bob will be the first one to lay out that these are his personal conclusions. But if there's anything to say in favor of his research, is that he bases it on the "raw data", NDEs included. I've got his book and was looking it over it last night.

I don't necessarily see a contradiction between what Bob says and what you say about NDErs or people who remember past lives. NDErs frequently seem to access something more than just "personality consciousness" ("spirit"), and may be in touch with Soul consciousness that informs them they (the soul, as opposed to the spirit) reincarnate. I guess you could work out an idea like that for people who remember past lives too. Although of course this is all speculation, I'm not entirely sold on all of these ideas.

What NDErs experience, as opposed to what is sometimes presented through mediumistic communications, is another challenge. Many of the former (though not all) seem to access an Expanded version of their little regular self. Are they more advanced souls? Can we brush off their experiences relating to these concerns by saying "Oh, they're just having a peek, when they actually die they'll be their little regular self/spirit continuing their life as before"? I personally find that hard to believe. But it could be that consciousness has many dimensions - the spirit, the soul or oversoul, then the groupsoul, etc. etc. - which go on in parallel and simultaneously, so that it's not one or the other. Some NDEs (I'm thinking of Natalie Sudman) suggest that. You shift "perspective" (more easily done when you're not incarnate! ;)), and you're experiencing another facet.

I guess I have many problems with what's presented in what I've read (and will continue to read) in classic Spiritualist mediumship - linear and set-boundary planes of existence, having a self that's just the continuation of your regular self, doing earthlike activities, sometimes taking a long time to realize where they are and being depressed about it, almost never any recounting of experiencing incredible joy and bliss at leaving the body and entering a warm, velvety darkness or the Light. Some of it I find hard to find plausible or believe in in one way or another (that doesn't mean I don't believe in the reality of the anomalous communication that occurred with those people, quite the contrary, which is part of the puzzle for me), some of it I have problems with because that's so unlike what I find in many NDEs. Because of all that, I'm interested in what more contemporary mediums have to say.

I think you have to have a facebook account. If you create an account using a pseudonym, pick one that looks like a real name otherwise the facebook admins will delete your account. I don't like facebook either, this is the only thing I use it for but the group is worth it.
Thanks a lot for that, Jim. I was going to give up on the idea, given that now you can't even seem to see a Facebook page without signing up, and I desperately don't want to. But I'll do what you say.
 

Ian Gordon

Ninshub
Member
#6
I've been having a stimulating email exchange with my friend Rob (outside the forum), long and deeply immersed in "psi", over my posts here. He agreed I could share his own "research conclusions" here.

Rob prefaced his responses by saying:
It is of the ultimate importance that when entertaining afterlife ideas and spiritual analogies that we first start by understanding we don’t know anything about any of this except for those analogies and ideas which are derived from our physical existence. If nothing more, our language is so incomplete that, literally, we don’t have the words to express the truth of the higher vibrational realms. Much less any concept of astral sciences, ethereal energy systems, etc. Very soon, IMO, almost immediately, you have to determine that you have run out of intellectual gas. In short, when you are speculating and overthinking.

Regarding the so-called "planes of existence", I had posted:
If that is so, then what about what you often (always?) come across in classic Spiritualist mediumship, which tells of the spirit ascending different planes of existence (6, 7, 9, 10, whatever). How can this portrait of the "spirit"/personality-level consciousness climbing the ladder, so to speak (to become what? a Soul?), be reconciled with the portrait of the Soul or Higher Self sending out little portions of itself, different "spirits", to live their "lives" (in flesh or in spirit)? Am I the only having a difficulty with this here?
Here Rob responds with interesting thoughts about that human distortion that is the geospatial concept of stepladdered "planes of existence":
Spiritualism is nothing more than another religion, a dogmatic set of metaphysical and theological principles which have been manifested and reordered by, guess who, Spiritualists. By its very definition, it must classify itself, construct a set of values, ideas and concepts. These constructs become a belief system and as in all belief systems, the belief precedes the truth and the “truth” must accommodate the belief system. Completely backwards.

The spirit realms, the interdimensions, the planes, the ethers, are all part of one energy system, the Source. They are literally interwoven – not stepladdered - and being so, they are not geospatially divided which is what the realm numbering system insists.

This does not mean that there are no separations of spiritual growth, there most positively are. These separations are best understood as conflicts in resonance i.e. in very simple terms (analogies) vibrations that cannot be mixed. Anymore than you mix sand and water. Hence, the realms become numbered for simplicities sake, this is easier to grasp than a more complicated but much truer analogy where energy = consciousness = everything.

Let’s say you die and find that you’re spiritual progress has increased your vibrational frequency to B, you want to get to Z to be aligned with the Source. You must up your vibrational energy in order to move up to C, then J, then R, etc. How do you do this? By reincarnating (not necessarily on Earth), learning the lessons that will enhance your spiritual growth (aka the predetermined Life Plan) and up your vibratory levels. The main lessons to be learned are how to love unconditionally, to be compassionate, caring and in the realization We All Are One.


I had also posted:
Second question/dilemma regarding the "planes of existence". If the "spirit" grows and crosses different planes (which, traditionally, means that when the spirit reaches higher planes, it's harder or becomes impossible to communicate with lower levels, including of course Earth life), does it really happen that you try and contact your uncle Bob through a medium and get told "Sorry, he's ascended to the 6th Plane, but here's your aunt Bertha instead"?
Rob answered:
Possible. Not typical though.

There appears to be no doubt that there are “levels of advancement” and the more advanced [spiritually progressed], the higher the vibrational level. It must be much more difficult if not impossible to get from, say, V to Earth since the down vibrational requirements are so steep. Some communicators and controls will tell you this is so and that a “6th” or “V” level being will need an ethereal medium, a medium that is vibrationally inbetween the earthly medium and the M level communicator. You, the sitter, the earthly medium, the ethereal medium, and the M level spirit passing the baton (communication) back and forth.

There also seems to be what I can best call a lack of interest with the higher beings who are pure energy-light with no physicality at all. They let the aliens, interdimensional and parallel world beings and the lower level ethereal beings work out the communication and message content issues while they sorta sit around and macromanage processes.
 

Ian Gordon

Ninshub
Member
#7
Timelessness.

This seems to be a concept that, difficult-impossible as it is to really grasp, seems to potentially shed further light on these questions.

Rob sent me this post-scriptum:
If our true self lives in the ethereal, and this life is nothing more than an expression of our need to learn, then we are living in a timeless environment. Everything is taking place at once. In order to be everywhere at once, we split (fractalize) our soul which means we can have multiple reincarnations during the same (earthly) time level. (my bold) The answers to your questions are with that Higher, true self and since we have no idea what a timeless world is like, we have little way of either figuring this out or expressing the true answers.

I had posted
I guess I have many problems with what's presented in what I've read (and will continue to read) in classic Spiritualist mediumship - linear and set-boundary planes of existence, having a self that's just the continuation of your regular self...
On the issue of "who you are" when you "step through the veil", Rob thinks the following:

If you reincarnate and do so from a low level of spiritual advancement, i.e. your existing level of spiritual advancement, you step through the veil more or less with the issues that still remain with you when you die. Those issues could be a lack of loving care, compassion, etc., and in many cases no comprehension of an afterlife and eternity. You’ll end up at some low vibratory level until you figure out, gosh, there really must be an afterlife, I need to get out of here. And so you do but until that realization, you will be bouncing from physical to ethereal which are only a few Hertz difference.

Now let’s say that you are a higher level being, reincarnate, return to that higher level and with much less issues. You now have lost nearly all your physicality, you are more light than matter, more photon than electron. You are still you (the continuation of your...self) but the similarities between your physical being and your spiritual one are les...and less...and less. Think about a player that starts in youth sports then progresses to become a professional. More or less the same dude but certainly not the same level of proficiency.


I had posted
I guess I have many problems with what's presented in what I've read (and will continue to read) in classic Spiritualist mediumship - linear and set-boundary planes of existence, having a self that's just the continuation of your regular self, doing earthlike activities, sometimes taking a long time to realize where they are and being depressed about it, almost never any recounting of experiencing incredible joy and bliss at leaving the body and entering a warm, velvety darkness or the Light. Some of it I find hard to find plausible or believe in in one way or another
Rob answered:
I understand your point but keep in mind, this is only one fractalized experience you are having among an infinite amount of them all happening at once (timelessness) (my bold). Since the lower level spirits are the ones we most often hear from, they have a tendency to color our understanding of the afterlife with their own limitations.
 

Ian Gordon

Ninshub
Member
#8
Bashar, timelessness and "re-incarnation".

Lots of people have problems with channels, that's fine. Or this and that channel, etc - I'm no exception there. Maybe getting into that would be for another thread. ;) But I'm getting into Bashar (an interdimensional alien channeled by Darryl Anka) because of some of the concepts he presents surrounding these notions.

Here's a very interesting short video that goes to the heart of the matter. The audio and video are slightly out of sync.

This next video I'll have to study to try to understand. It's NOT Bashar. It's another "collective being" being channeled by Anka.

I must say I find, personally, Anka to be very straightforward and "grounded" :) for a channel, and I intuitively like him and resonate with what I've heard him say so far. But that's just me.
Here's a very recent interview he did with Rick Archer on Gas Pump that's very enjoyable. Listen to the first 15 minutes to get a good introduction to Anka, how Bashar came through, the process of channeling. (It's Anka doing the interview, not his channeled entity Bashar.)
 
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S

Sciborg_S_Patel

#9
Seems like this might be of interest?
Mediumship & Folk Models of Mind and Matter

This chapter explores the role of experiences with trance and physical mediumship in the development of folk models of mind and matter, at a non-denominational spiritualist home-circle called the Bristol Spirit Lodge. Mediums and sitters often claim that mediumship has led them to understand the world differently, and to appreciate that the standard materialistic view of science is inadequate as an all encompassing model of reality. Certain key themes and concepts have emerged from my informants’ experiences with mediumship that hint at alternative models of understanding the relationship between mind and matter, including the idea that bodies are permeable, that matter is essentially non-physical, that consciousness is far more expansive than our normal waking state would lead us to believe, and that persons are multiple, can survive death, and may be influenced by external spiritual entities.

To begin, we will briefly examine the anthropological debate over spirit possession, taking a quick tour through the various theoretical models developed to account for the existence of this human phenomenon. This will be followed by an introduction to the history of Spiritualism, and in particular to physical mediumship, in order to give an idea of the kind of spirit mediumship that forms the basis for discussion in this chapter. The chapter will conclude with an analysis of extracts from ethnographic interviews with members of the Bristol Spirit Lodge.
While it is undoubtedly true that each of the approaches outlined above provides insight into the sociological functions and psychological underpinnings of spirit possession experiences and practices, it is also fair to say that none of them is able to provide a complete explanatory model of spirit possession. Functionalist models frequently fail to take into account the experiences and understandings of the possessed themselves (Bowker, 1973; Boddy, 1988, p. 4), and do not always correspond with the ethnographic facts (Wilson, 1967; Rasmussen, 1994, p. 76). Similarly, cognitive approaches have been criticised for their reduction of particularly complex social and experiential phenomena to highly specific, not to mention speculative, cognitive processes (Halloy, 2010). Pathological interpretations also fall short of the ethnographic reality, with mediums often displaying fewer signs of mental illness than non-mediums in a variety of different cultural contexts (Moreira-Almeida et al., 2008, p. 420; Roxburgh & Roe, 2011, p. 294), and preliminary neurophysiological research suggests that there are significant neurophysiological differences between possession states and pathological states, such as epilepsy (Oohashi et al., 2002; Hageman et al., 2010).
 
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#10
Bashar, timelessness and "re-incarnation".

Lots of people have problems with channels, that's fine. Or this and that channel, etc - I'm no exception there. Maybe getting into that would be for another thread. ;) But I'm getting into Bashar (an interdimensional alien channeled by Darryl Anka) because of some of the concepts he presents surrounding these notions.
I was surprised how much I enjoyed this despite my scepticism about channelling. Thanks for posting!:)
 
#12
You're welcome, Michael. Now if you understand the second video, maybe you can explain it to me. ;)
It didn't seem that complicated to me: he was just providing a visual model for how the one being could exist in many different apparent time frames (even overlapping), and claiming that people like him could see the interrelationships all at once using an appropriate device. Whether or not there's anything to it, I can't say, but the model itself seemed fairly straightforward, even when extended to 3 dimensions by visualising lots of planes overlying those beneath...and indicating that the model could be extended further into 4 or 5 dimensions, which of course I can't visualise, but one gets the gist.
 

Ian Gordon

Ninshub
Member
#13
But I'm getting into Bashar (an interdimensional alien channeled by Darryl Anka) because of some of the concepts he presents surrounding these notions.
Bashar 2014 said:
Please all of you, to the best of your ability remember, that these ideas we are discussing are not just “nice ideas”. They are not just “philosophies”. They are not just “affirmations”. They are description of physics. This is how the mechanism of existence actually functions. It’s not an opinion, it’s an observation. And you can the experience the result of that observation very transparently yourselves when you use the tools in the way they were designed to be used. It’s as simple as that.
 
#15
I have a question to throw out there to people who study this kind of "data" and reflect on such matters, which I might have trouble articulating, but I'll give it a go anyway.

In a recent interview that Bob Olson did promoting his new book (he's the one being interviewed by James Van Praagh), he maps out what he's come to as a personal research conclusion regarding the soul and the spirit, which isn't new, but is a perspective that makes some sense to me and that I come across elsewhere. This is the idea that your or my personality (he labels it "the spirit", the words don't matter) continues on pretty much as is upon death, and continues to grow in the afterlife.

Now, that's not what reincarnates, according to Bob. The spirit or personality-level entity/consciousness is a sliver of a Higher Self (he labels it "the soul"), which sends off different slivers of itself, creates different "spirits" if you will, who incarnate (and sometimes maybe don't?) and create and continue their own paths. So it's not "reincarnation" per se.

This explains why, for example, you rarely/never get a mediumship reading and are told "Sorry, you can't speak to uncle Bob, he's off reincarnating."

Now, again, this makes some sense to me. (And James Van Praagh says he agrees with Bob on this view.) But it does raise several questions, but I'll try to keep it to just a few.

If that is so, then what about what you often (always?) come across in classic Spiritualist mediumship, which tells of the spirit ascending different planes of existence (6, 7, 9, 10, whatever). How can this portrait of the "spirit"/personality-level consciousness climbing the ladder, so to speak (to become what? a Soul?), be reconciled with the portrait of the Soul or Higher Self sending out little portions of itself, different "spirits", to live their "lives" (in flesh or in spirit)? Am I the only having a difficulty with this here?

Second question/dilemma regarding the "planes of existence". If the "spirit" grows and crosses different planes (which, traditionally, means that when the spirit reaches higher planes, it's harder or becomes impossible to communicate with lower levels, including of course Earth life), does it really happen that you try and contact your uncle Bob through a medium and get told "Sorry, he's ascended to the 6th Plane, but here's your aunt Bertha instead"?

Anyone's free to share their thoughts, but I'm especially interested in answers or thoughts by people who immerse themselves in this "data", study these questions, and are not just inclined to philosophical speculation.

----
Here's where Bob spells his thoughts out, in answer to a caller:
33:48 to 37:30
Maybe a basic framework of understanding through my observation in the spirit world and the Ascended Masters' teachings and I will use some Earth's definitions (electronics) to define it.

All of us has a Higher-Self. It is our divine self; it is who we are and all knowing. We are co-creators of God. So when we embody on this planet Earth, we are sending an extension of our Higher-Self and this is called the Conscious You. This Conscious You is a "Proxy" of your Higher-Self. The reason for this is for the protection of your Higher-Self from any possible negative influences that can defragment, contaminate or damage the matrixes of the Higher-Self. If you can imagine Earth's technology called an Optoelectronic Relay (Opto-Isolator) where one side is shielded against the other side which can be exposed to high voltage or high electric charge. If the other side is damaged, the original side is protected; it is safe. That's the whole point of the Higher-Self sending an extension, so if the extension is somehow damaged by the negative aspects of the world it is living in, that damage is limited to the extension. In the beginning of creation and subsequent embodiment before the fall of mankind, everything on planet Earth was positive and peaceful. This was the time during the Lemurian and Atlantis age. In fact, what the New Age people had been promoting today about the upcoming Golden Age is actually NOT the first. There had been many other golden ages. The last period of the Atlantis age was a Golden Age. Having said that, the "SOUL" is merely a vessel for the Conscious You and is pretty much benign and uncontaminated because the Conscious You always has full access to the Higher-Self at all times. The decision made by the Conscious You has always been in line with Universal principles and thereby do not commit any karma. Unfortunately after the fall of man, the vibration of planet Earth has been lowered as a result and therefore, the connection between the Conscious You and your Higher-Self is thus challenged. Without guidance from your own Higher-Self, the Conscious You is subjected to duality thinking of good and bad and therefore started the state of misqualifying energies in the form of karma. The soul, after the fall of man, has become the store house of these form of misqualified energies which will need to be re-qualified in order for your Conscious You to become one again with your Higher-Self. When you are one with your Higher-Self in all aspects of life and not subjected the the Prince of this world, you would then qualify for your ascension into the spiritual world. This being would be called an Ascended Master/being.

There are several reasons why you can't talk to uncle Bob.
1, He's already ascended -- meaning he's now an ascended master like Jesus
2, He's in the Etheric realm, not on the Astral Plane/Realm and perform self-service on spirit beings in the Astral Realm and the mediumship person who's performing the service have low vibrations (insecure, fear, anger, hatred unresolved psychology) which attracts other astral realm spirits who are there. You can only attract like beings based on your vibration. Low vibration mediumship can not attract higher vibration beings.
3, He's eliminated in what the book of Genesis called as "second death".

When you die and leave the body, this is called "First Death". When you face your life review and do not repent or unforgiving of your actions, then you will face the second death. Keep in mind that, what's destroyed by the flames of fire in second death is the "uncle BOB" extension of the Higher-Self. The soul vehicle will be purified and then re-integrated back to the Higher-Self and then begin the process of embodiment all over again. So the character uncle Bob ceased to exist but the memories and experiences are kept. However, it does not mean other characters or extensions of the Higher-Self from other time lines, universes and planes are not kept in tact. But usually if they are aware of the Law of Free Will, they will not communicate with you unless it does not infringe on this law.

Think of you today as a spiritual lamp post emitting a certain amount of light or energy to keep planet Earth from falling dark. In fact, you must guarantee God a certain level of light before you can re-embody on this earth. Let's assume you promised god you will put out 10 watts of light on this Earth. The plan is, you should never go below your allotted light output. But many people actually do, so they get sick, in trouble or suffering from a lot of hardships. The idea is to raise this light so you have a cushion or buffer. Certain high-selves can provide many extensions of themselves to become more efficient in resolving lots of karma and lessons, but you need to guarantee a lot of light to God. If you can put out 50 watts of light or this much of energy because you have a much higher vibration, then yes you can extend up to 5 beings of 10 watts each (for example) in all planes, time lines and universes, which makes communicating with uncle BOB quite difficult unless you can do this yourself through your own Higher-Self or God-self. The idea of communicating with our own Higher-Self is our intrinsic right for the longest time, since the beginning of creation. Why are you relying on mediumship? Just like home improvement. Why are you relying on some else to paint the wall when you can do it yourself if you just learn how!

The short answer to this equation is this. If you can not communicate with uncle Bob even through your Higher-Self, this means that
Uncle BOB simply ceased to exist (second death) or Uncle BOB has nothing constructive to provide that you need to hear that will help you and maybe Auntie Bertha may have a better explanation that you need to hear that will help you grow.
When you deal with higher vibrational beings in the Etheric and Spiritual Realm, they are more about teaching you what you need to hear. The beings on the Astral realm are more about confusing you by telling you what you want to hear, so anyone likes to talk with some distorted spiritual truth that may suit you what you want to hear, but provide no spiritual growth.

Let's face it. People pay good money just so that people can tell them what they want to hear. It's hard to make a good living telling people what you need to hear. Some mediums who do this ethically and with a high level of Christ discernment usually have a full time day job with benefits and do mediumship on the side and may require you first to communicate with your higher-self to get the a-okay. Again, it's all about the law of free will. Something that not a lot of spiritual people like to talk about.
 
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#16
I have a question to throw out there to people who study this kind of "data" and reflect on such matters, which I might have trouble articulating, but I'll give it a go anyway.

In a recent interview that Bob Olson did promoting his new book (he's the one being interviewed by James Van Praagh), he maps out what he's come to as a personal research conclusion regarding the soul and the spirit, which isn't new, but is a perspective that makes some sense to me and that I come across elsewhere. This is the idea that your or my personality (he labels it "the spirit", the words don't matter) continues on pretty much as is upon death, and continues to grow in the afterlife.

Now, that's not what reincarnates, according to Bob. The spirit or personality-level entity/consciousness is a sliver of a Higher Self (he labels it "the soul"), which sends off different slivers of itself, creates different "spirits" if you will, who incarnate (and sometimes maybe don't?) and create and continue their own paths. So it's not "reincarnation" per se.

This explains why, for example, you rarely/never get a mediumship reading and are told "Sorry, you can't speak to uncle Bob, he's off reincarnating."

Now, again, this makes some sense to me. (And James Van Praagh says he agrees with Bob on this view.) But it does raise several questions, but I'll try to keep it to just a few.

If that is so, then what about what you often (always?) come across in classic Spiritualist mediumship, which tells of the spirit ascending different planes of existence (6, 7, 9, 10, whatever). How can this portrait of the "spirit"/personality-level consciousness climbing the ladder, so to speak (to become what? a Soul?), be reconciled with the portrait of the Soul or Higher Self sending out little portions of itself, different "spirits", to live their "lives" (in flesh or in spirit)? Am I the only having a difficulty with this here?

Second question/dilemma regarding the "planes of existence". If the "spirit" grows and crosses different planes (which, traditionally, means that when the spirit reaches higher planes, it's harder or becomes impossible to communicate with lower levels, including of course Earth life), does it really happen that you try and contact your uncle Bob through a medium and get told "Sorry, he's ascended to the 6th Plane, but here's your aunt Bertha instead"?

Anyone's free to share their thoughts, but I'm especially interested in answers or thoughts by people who immerse themselves in this "data", study these questions, and are not just inclined to philosophical speculation.

Its all about the Unconscious mind, which is stored genetically in the living generation.
It comes back again and again.
But our Conscious mind does not have access to it memories at this point on time.
So we are totally unaware of our "soul," or ever existing Unconsciousness.



 
S

Sciborg_S_Patel

#17
The Tilde Fallacy and Reincarnation Variations on a "Skeptical" Argument

I will be discussing these different Tilde Fallacy arguments in increasing order of general acceptability. The first argument is, as far as I know, accepted by no one today who has seriously studied the subject. The next is accepted only by a small but vocal cult following. The third is accepted by a very large group probably including the majority of the academically employed. The last of these Tilde Fallacy arguments is acceptable to probably almost everyone except me (and perhaps you, gentle reader, if you find my arguments convincing). The topic of this argument is survival after biological death. The so-called "materialist" position, which I will call mortalism, relies heavily on the Tilde Fallacy. I will argue that once the Tilde Fallacy has been removed from the debate, the most ontologically parsimonious position is belief in reincarnation. I will also argue, at much greater length, that the mortalist position is self-contradictory, but that the contradiction is phenomenological, not logical.
 
#18
I have a question to throw out there to people who study this kind of "data" and reflect on such matters, which I might have trouble articulating, but I'll give it a go anyway.

In a recent interview that Bob Olson did promoting his new book (he's the one being interviewed by James Van Praagh), he maps out what he's come to as a personal research conclusion regarding the soul and the spirit, which isn't new, but is a perspective that makes some sense to me and that I come across elsewhere. This is the idea that your or my personality (he labels it "the spirit", the words don't matter) continues on pretty much as is upon death, and continues to grow in the afterlife.

Now, that's not what reincarnates, according to Bob. The spirit or personality-level entity/consciousness is a sliver of a Higher Self (he labels it "the soul"), which sends off different slivers of itself, creates different "spirits" if you will, who incarnate (and sometimes maybe don't?) and create and continue their own paths. So it's not "reincarnation" per se.

This explains why, for example, you rarely/never get a mediumship reading and are told "Sorry, you can't speak to uncle Bob, he's off reincarnating."

Now, again, this makes some sense to me. (And James Van Praagh says he agrees with Bob on this view.) But it does raise several questions, but I'll try to keep it to just a few.

If that is so, then what about what you often (always?) come across in classic Spiritualist mediumship, which tells of the spirit ascending different planes of existence (6, 7, 9, 10, whatever). How can this portrait of the "spirit"/personality-level consciousness climbing the ladder, so to speak (to become what? a Soul?), be reconciled with the portrait of the Soul or Higher Self sending out little portions of itself, different "spirits", to live their "lives" (in flesh or in spirit)? Am I the only having a difficulty with this here?

Second question/dilemma regarding the "planes of existence". If the "spirit" grows and crosses different planes (which, traditionally, means that when the spirit reaches higher planes, it's harder or becomes impossible to communicate with lower levels, including of course Earth life), does it really happen that you try and contact your uncle Bob through a medium and get told "Sorry, he's ascended to the 6th Plane, but here's your aunt Bertha instead"?

Anyone's free to share their thoughts, but I'm especially interested in answers or thoughts by people who immerse themselves in this "data", study these questions, and are not just inclined to philosophical speculation.

----
Here's where Bob spells his thoughts out, in answer to a caller:
33:48 to 37:30

Spiritualist mediumship at that time was heavily influenced by the theosophical writings of Helena Blavatsky, Annie Bessant and C. W. Leadbeater. Leadbeater introduced the 7 planes model of reality, while the concept of Ascended Masters originated with Blavatsky's claim that a select group of enlightened beings isolated in the Himalayas were responsible with mankind's spiritual evolution. So these concepts may have influenced the mediumistic derived information.
 
#19
I have a question to throw out there to people who study this kind of "data" and reflect on such matters, which I might have trouble articulating, but I'll give it a go anyway.

In a recent interview that Bob Olson did promoting his new book (he's the one being interviewed by James Van Praagh), he maps out what he's come to as a personal research conclusion regarding the soul and the spirit, which isn't new, but is a perspective that makes some sense to me and that I come across elsewhere. This is the idea that your or my personality (he labels it "the spirit", the words don't matter) continues on pretty much as is upon death, and continues to grow in the afterlife.

Now, that's not what reincarnates, according to Bob. The spirit or personality-level entity/consciousness is a sliver of a Higher Self (he labels it "the soul"), which sends off different slivers of itself, creates different "spirits" if you will, who incarnate (and sometimes maybe don't?) and create and continue their own paths. So it's not "reincarnation" per se.

This explains why, for example, you rarely/never get a mediumship reading and are told "Sorry, you can't speak to uncle Bob, he's off reincarnating."

Now, again, this makes some sense to me. (And James Van Praagh says he agrees with Bob on this view.) But it does raise several questions, but I'll try to keep it to just a few.

If that is so, then what about what you often (always?) come across in classic Spiritualist mediumship, which tells of the spirit ascending different planes of existence (6, 7, 9, 10, whatever). How can this portrait of the "spirit"/personality-level consciousness climbing the ladder, so to speak (to become what? a Soul?), be reconciled with the portrait of the Soul or Higher Self sending out little portions of itself, different "spirits", to live their "lives" (in flesh or in spirit)? Am I the only having a difficulty with this here?

Second question/dilemma regarding the "planes of existence". If the "spirit" grows and crosses different planes (which, traditionally, means that when the spirit reaches higher planes, it's harder or becomes impossible to communicate with lower levels, including of course Earth life), does it really happen that you try and contact your uncle Bob through a medium and get told "Sorry, he's ascended to the 6th Plane, but here's your aunt Bertha instead"?

Anyone's free to share their thoughts, but I'm especially interested in answers or thoughts by people who immerse themselves in this "data", study these questions, and are not just inclined to philosophical speculation.

----
Here's where Bob spells his thoughts out, in answer to a caller:
33:48 to 37:30
Thomas Campbell says the greater consciousness system shows you a recording from the akashic record of what Bob would have told you when he had first passed, but that this doesn't necessarily mean it isn't still Bob.
 
#20
Maybe a basic framework of understanding through my observation in the spirit world and the Ascended Masters' teachings and I will use some Earth's definitions (electronics) to define it.

All of us has a Higher-Self. It is our divine self; it is who we are and all knowing. We are co-creators of God. So when we embody on this planet Earth, we are sending an extension of our Higher-Self and this is called the Conscious You. This Conscious You is a "Proxy" of your Higher-Self. The reason for this is for the protection of your Higher-Self from any possible negative influences that can defragment, contaminate or damage the matrixes of the Higher-Self. If you can imagine Earth's technology called an Optoelectronic Relay (Opto-Isolator) where one side is shielded against the other side which can be exposed to high voltage or high electric charge. If the other side is damaged, the original side is protected; it is safe. That's the whole point of the Higher-Self sending an extension, so if the extension is somehow damaged by the negative aspects of the world it is living in, that damage is limited to the extension. In the beginning of creation and subsequent embodiment before the fall of mankind, everything on planet Earth was positive and peaceful. This was the time during the Lemurian and Atlantis age. In fact, what the New Age people had been promoting today about the upcoming Golden Age is actually NOT the first. There had been many other golden ages. The last period of the Atlantis age was a Golden Age. Having said that, the "SOUL" is merely a vessel for the Conscious You and is pretty much benign and uncontaminated because the Conscious You always has full access to the Higher-Self at all times. The decision made by the Conscious You has always been in line with Universal principles and thereby do not commit any karma. Unfortunately after the fall of man, the vibration of planet Earth has been lowered as a result and therefore, the connection between the Conscious You and your Higher-Self is thus challenged. Without guidance from your own Higher-Self, the Conscious You is subjected to duality thinking of good and bad and therefore started the state of misqualifying energies in the form of karma. The soul, after the fall of man, has become the store house of these form of misqualified energies which will need to be re-qualified in order for your Conscious You to become one again with your Higher-Self. When you are one with your Higher-Self in all aspects of life and not subjected the the Prince of this world, you would then qualify for your ascension into the spiritual world. This being would be called an Ascended Master/being.

There are several reasons why you can't talk to uncle Bob.
1, He's already ascended -- meaning he's now an ascended master like Jesus
2, He's in the Etheric realm, not on the Astral Plane/Realm and perform self-service on spirit beings in the Astral Realm and the mediumship person who's performing the service have low vibrations (insecure, fear, anger, hatred unresolved psychology) which attracts other astral realm spirits who are there. You can only attract like beings based on your vibration. Low vibration mediumship can not attract higher vibration beings.
3, He's eliminated in what the book of Genesis called as "second death".

When you die and leave the body, this is called "First Death". When you face your life review and do not repent or unforgiving of your actions, then you will face the second death. Keep in mind that, what's destroyed by the flames of fire in second death is the "uncle BOB" extension of the Higher-Self. The soul vehicle will be purified and then re-integrated back to the Higher-Self and then begin the process of embodiment all over again. So the character uncle Bob ceased to exist but the memories and experiences are kept. However, it does not mean other characters or extensions of the Higher-Self from other time lines, universes and planes are not kept in tact. But usually if they are aware of the Law of Free Will, they will not communicate with you unless it does not infringe on this law.

Think of you today as a spiritual lamp post emitting a certain amount of light or energy to keep planet Earth from falling dark. In fact, you must guarantee God a certain level of light before you can re-embody on this earth. Let's assume you promised god you will put out 10 watts of light on this Earth. The plan is, you should never go below your allotted light output. But many people actually do, so they get sick, in trouble or suffering from a lot of hardships. The idea is to raise this light so you have a cushion or buffer. Certain high-selves can provide many extensions of themselves to become more efficient in resolving lots of karma and lessons, but you need to guarantee a lot of light to God. If you can put out 50 watts of light or this much of energy because you have a much higher vibration, then yes you can extend up to 5 beings of 10 watts each (for example) in all planes, time lines and universes, which makes communicating with uncle BOB quite difficult unless you can do this yourself through your own Higher-Self or God-self. The idea of communicating with our own Higher-Self is our intrinsic right for the longest time, since the beginning of creation. Why are you relying on mediumship? Just like home improvement. Why are you relying on some else to paint the wall when you can do it yourself if you just learn how!

The short answer to this equation is this. If you can not communicate with uncle Bob even through your Higher-Self, this means that
Uncle BOB simply ceased to exist (second death) or Uncle BOB has nothing constructive to provide that you need to hear that will help you and maybe Auntie Bertha may have a better explanation that you need to hear that will help you grow.
When you deal with higher vibrational beings in the Etheric and Spiritual Realm, they are more about teaching you what you need to hear. The beings on the Astral realm are more about confusing you by telling you what you want to hear, so anyone likes to talk with some distorted spiritual truth that may suit you what you want to hear, but provide no spiritual growth.

Let's face it. People pay good money just so that people can tell them what they want to hear. It's hard to make a good living telling people what you need to hear. Some mediums who do this ethically and with a high level of Christ discernment usually have a full time day job with benefits and do mediumship on the side and may require you first to communicate with your higher-self to get the a-okay. Again, it's all about the law of free will. Something that not a lot of spiritual people like to talk about.

I'm curious where did you get the information about this "second death" concept, since in all my reading of spiritual material I only once read about soul dissolution in Campbell's TOE trilogy?
 
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