The super serious problem about "oneness"

Discussion in 'Extended Consciousness & Spirituality' started by tarantulanebula, Mar 12, 2017.

  1. tarantulanebula

    tarantulanebula New

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    Hello friends, nearly all of you are not unfamiliar with the hypotheses (the ideas, imaginations, sayings, guesses, mind trips, etc.) like these:

    1, We are one, we are different facets of a singular light orb entity which represents the "breath" of God.

    2, We are all God, each of us is an incarnation into a manifestation of God's imagination and creation of a possibility of existence.

    3, Each of us is sent by the God to explore a segment snippet of his own encompassing set of attributes.

    4, We are all much much loved and fundamentally the same. We share the same source and serve the same purpose of which it is the only and unavoidable way to undergo the errand of living different lives to learn from different experiences.

    5, That we can not remember our past lives doesn't mean that we had not traversed many past lives in which we had taken many drastically different roles and lead many kinds of lives.

    6, 7, 8, ....

    OK, I have a very serious confusion about these. These ideas seem plausible when and only when we ignore a very very serious fact. When this fact emerges from the back of our brain, these ideas won't make any sense and won't even be able to stand on a tiptop of a needle.

    The fact is, some souls, lives and fates are astronomically different and incompatible with each other.

    Also, we often tend to expect and treat the others as somehow similar to ourselves, in more or less degree, and we often subconsciously ignore that there are always some people or some experiences which are so so distant from those of ours, so as to not be able to be framed into a same cosmos.

    Let me say, anyone who will happen to read my post, will definitely be visiting this forum, so even if unnoticed, he or she actually has already shared many many similarities with me, like we both like thinking deep on the topics relevant to the purposes and ultimate fate of mankind, the source of existence, consciousness and epistemological science, and our fates also share many many similarities, like we both have a house to live, a computer to use, and are free to communicate with the others.

    Keep in mind, that there are always some people, whose traits and characteristics are so so different from us, like some people only like to commit homicide or are illiterate and lead a much dull and hollow life. And .... and .... here I omit a trillion examples.

    Some people's fates are also so so different from those of ours, like there are some people who are undergone the pursuit, persecution and killing from a gang. And .... and .... here I also omit a trillion examples.

    When we were growing from a child, our family would set some difficulty or puzzle to test our learning or boost our valor, lives can be arduous but they are somehow good to teach us something from the pains and eventually guide our souls' enlightening.

    But, seriously, some kinds of people and some kinds of fates are totally insanely different and incomparable beyond any possible measure, this is much like, say, the day before, your family loved you so much to celebrate your entering a wonderful university which was again a result of the ubiquitous helps by your beloved ones in the past decade, you felt very very grateful and totally loved unconditionally by your surroundings and niches, later, suddenly at a time, before your mind could react and before you could ever start to understand the bizarre scene which was happening, you saw your beloved ones, your family, your friends, your soulmate, they all took chainsaws to .... on you, sorry I don't want to be gory, but just let me say that it doesn't make any sense when the differences between you and your past lives are in an uncontrollable degree.

    I don't want to hurt the others, I don't think if I had committed a felony in one of my past lives, that would have still been me. No, it is easy for them to say those ideas, those are only sentences which carry no real meaningful semantic values, somethings are totally incompatible as to not be able to conjugate for the sake of god.

    We, you, my friends and I who occasionally visit this forum, be in a same soul family, yeah it's imaginable, but to say we and someones out there who are completely dumbly unimaginably different from us one way or another or in every ways, are in a same soul family, this is an insane and quite meaningless thought. We, here I mean every possible existences in this universe and whatever parallel or unparalleled universes out there, can't be one or in a same soul family or all being loved by a singular God. Totally insane, totally doesn't make sense.

    We just disappear if we will incarnate into an insanely different live, those can't be us, totally. It is that we just unconsciously tend to ignore this fact which leads us to think those ideas are possible. Because the differences are insanely unimaginable.

    A benign force won't erase our memories to help us learn new things, erasing what we have learned in this lives will make us commit the same mistakes again. I can't imagine that how bright and divinely loved some lives could be, and I can't imagine how tragic, dark and meaningless some lives could be, when we immerse into a too bright brightness, the too dark darkness can't be real to be waiting for us by imagination, vice versa, when we are wrapped with too dark darkness, love could only be a joke and illusion.

    It doesn't make sense. The saying is easy to say, but just think deep and you will find it can be like that.
     
  2. tarantulanebula

    tarantulanebula New

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    Thinking deeper and deeper, and vicariously imagining the roles of some people we have already seen, and even extending our imagination to every possible direction and length, you will find that it doesn't make any sense to say "we are one", "we are all much much loved", "we are from the same source", "we are radically the same".

    The differences can be extremely scary to dip even just as tiny as a quark into the imagination. And there are something which are remotely unreachable by my most maniac mind wandering.

    Saying love spreads to every corner of universe and every soul is radically kind and beautiful and loving, is a thing irresponsible like using a box of match to extinguish a forest fire. How illusory these are.
     
  3. tarantulanebula

    tarantulanebula New

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    I take an example, now I can think freely and I can talk to the others, this is because that I haven't undergone a traumatic experience so severely like an explosion in a soul.

    I'm not happy, I have many many defects and difficulties and problems, but life hasn't destroyed me, I'm still struggling, working hard and keep moving, although sometimes not very efficient or fully fueled but things could have been worse.

    But current situation doesn't guarantee future, what if everything will deteriorate? Think about that, some fates of some people are traumatic so as to make the people not even be able to think, not mention to write a post in a forum. Just, can't think, totally destroyed, totally desperate.

    No, it doesn't make sense to make an idea of a simple saying to explain everything. How illusory they are, those are, these are. They can't be real. Love can't be real.
     
  4. Baccarat

    Baccarat New

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    Sounds like you just swallowed the "red pill"
     
  5. Raimo

    Raimo New

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    You are right. It doesn't make sense. Fortunately evidence from psychical research negates the oneness hypothesis.

    I agree 100% with this quotation from Stephen A. McNallen:
     
  6. Baccarat

    Baccarat New

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    I see what you guy are saying. Not defending the "Oneness" theory, but could the ego be blocking us from fully understanding our true oneness?

    Who is Stephen A. Mcnallen?
     
  7. Oneness is not something people derive or understand through logic or philosophy. Oneness is a word people tend to use to describe several types of feelings and experiences (kensho, samadhi, brahman, not-self, no-self, etc.). But it is not possible to fully describe any feeling or experience in words. You can't tell a color blind person what blue looks like. Trying to describe oneness is like that. And it's not a logical proposition, it's not question of true or false, or of right or wrong. It's a question about what it feels like. The difference between oneness and separation is always subjective. You are not "wrong" if you don't "believe" in oneness. And oneness does not contradict individuality (see below). The kind of oneness people attribute to soul groups in the afterlife or union with God is not oblivion or like forgetting who you were, it is like joining or remembering. Even the word oneness as a description can fall short of some experiences. If you realize what in Buddhism is sometimes described as not-self or no-self, there isn't anything to be one with everything else, "not two, and not one".

    Realizing the Ultimate:
    http://ncu9nc.blogspot.com/2015/03/realizing-ultimate.html
    According to Wikipedia:
    "In Hinduism, Brahman is "the unchanging reality amidst and beyond the world", which "cannot be exactly defined". It has been described in Sanskrit as Sat-cit-ananda and as the highest reality... According to Advaita, a liberated human being ... has realised Brahman as his or her own true self."
    ...​
    Lester Levenson ...
    He saw this Beingness as something like a comb. He was at the spine of the comb and all the teeth fanned out from it, each one thinking it was separate and different from all the other teeth. And that was true, but only if you looked at it from the tooth end of the comb. Once you got back to the spine or source, you could see that it wasn't true. It was all one comb. There was no real separation, except when you sat at the tooth end. It was all in one's point of view.
    ...​
    Moving awareness to "the base of the comb", as Lester Levenson described it, is not like losing individuality, it is like remembering who you really are. When you are at the tip of the comb, it is like looking through a kaleidoscope that produces the appearance of multiplicity.
    ...
    Bernadette Roberts,
    ...
    This center can be compared to a coin: on the near side is our self, on the far side is the divine. One side is not the other side, yet we cannot separate the two sides. If we tried to do so, we would either end up with another side, or the whole coin would collapse, leaving no center at all - no self and no divine.

    "There is no contradiction between individuality and oneness."
    http://ncu9nc.blogspot.com/p/occasionally-i-post-something-to.html#misc_oneness_individuality
    Some people object to the belief in oneness because it seems to contradict our ordinary experience of individuality and it seems to imply that we would cease to exist in the afterlife. However, there is no contradiction between individuality and oneness. Oneness is not oblivion. We are already one and it doesn't seem to be a problem for most people. The confusion arises because it is impossible to understand something that is non-physical like consciousness by analogy to the physical things we know about. You have to experience it to understand it. In fact, when living people sometimes realize oneness, they usually like it much better than being separate. ...​

    The brain function behind one type of experience of oneness is understood to some extent:
    http://ncu9nc.blogspot.com/2012/05/experience-of-oneness.html

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Empathogen–entactogen
    Empathogens or entactogens are a class of psychoactive drugs that produce experiences of emotional communion, oneness, relatedness, emotional openness—that is, empathy or sympathy—as particularly observed and reported for experiences with 3,4- Methylenedioxymethamphetamine (MDMA).[1][2] ​
     
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2017
  8. Brian_the_bard

    Brian_the_bard Lost Pilgrim Member

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    I'm intrigued. What research is this?
     
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  9. I suppose it depends on who's research you consider and the type of oneness you are referring to. I would agree that psychical research negates a common misapprehension of "oneness" - loss of identity. But psychical research confirms a correct (in my opinion) understanding of a kind of oneness - simultaneity, non-contradiction, of identity and oneness. And research can't negate a subjective feeling or a subjective opinion about what things are separate.

    http://ncu9nc.blogspot.com/2015/03/realizing-ultimate.html

    Linda Stewart wrote about her near-death experience:
    http://www.near-death.com/stewart.html
    The metaphor represented by the image I saw and perceived was absolutely clear and I was overwhelmed with the knowledge that WE ARE ALL ONE. I comprehended that our oneness is interconnected by love and is an available, much higher level and means of communication than we normally use but to which we have access. This love is available to anyone who is willing to do the hard spiritual work that will allow us to open our hearts and minds and eyes to Spirit. I remembered the love I had felt in the presence of God and experienced a total sense of love for all existence as an interconnected oneness and a manifestation of God.​


    The spirit of Charles Marshall communicating through direct voice medium Leslie Flint said:
    http://www.leslieflint.com/transcripts_marshall6p2.html
    It is the development and it is the tremendous realisation that one must have eventually of how we are all linked and bound together and how actually the very fundamental thing that flows through us all, is the very essence which is of God. And so we gradually evolve more and more to God or become like him.

    I do not refer to shape or form, I refer now to the infinite spirit which is the very life blood you might say of all humanity; where we lose in each other ourselves and discover that we are all in a oneness and in accord. And when we have this oneness and accord we reach a stage of spiritual development where we can be considered to be living in a form if you like of paradise because we are conscious of everything around and about us as being not only "us" but "all".​
     
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2017
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  10. Typoz

    Typoz Member

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    Sometimes I feel like we're caught in a loop. I remember discussing this before, I'm not sure how long ago. But I don't feel inclined to repeat the same points I made previously. I'll just say I think maybe there is a misunderstanding, the subject is misrepresented. Jim Smith has made some good points covering some of the problems.
     
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  11. Raimo

    Raimo New

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    I don't think so. I think that when people experience their natural formless state of consciousness, they confuse it with "oneness":
    http://www.astralinfo.org/obe-keys-to-control/

    He is the author of this book:
    https://www.amazon.com/Asatru-Europ...eywords=asatru+a+native+european+spirituality
     
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  12. Raimo can correct me if I am wrong, but I think he might be referring to the idea that we lose identity in the afterlife where we merge back into ... something universal.

    I agree loss of identity is not supported by evidence..
     
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2017
  13. Raimo

    Raimo New

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    Research on reincarnation, mental mediumship, near-death experiences, out-of-body experiences, apparitions, deathbed visions, shared death experiences etc.
     
  14. The Brain Can't Empathize And Analyze At Same Time
    http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/252241.php
    Scientists have discovered that the brain circuits we engage when we think about social matters, such as considering other people's views, or moral issues, inhibit the circuits that we use when we think about inanimate, analytical things, such as working on a physics problem or making sure the numbers add up when we balance our budget. And they say, the same happens the other way around: the analytic brain network inhibits the social network.​
     
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  15. Brian_the_bard

    Brian_the_bard Lost Pilgrim Member

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    Sorry, my brain jumped and I forgot that we were discussing after death. I will wake up, I promise!
     
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  16. Oneness and individuality are not in conflict. You can make a super computer by networking individual PCs. Then you can sit down at a PC and use it as an individual PC, or you can use it as the supercomputer of which it is a part.
     
  17. tarantulanebula

    tarantulanebula New

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    I have to make this quick:

    My friends, you all shed some light on this topic and bring me some hope. While many nders seem quite affirmative on some claiming and this made me worry about that they are not somehow reasonable, you proposed the idea that many of their claims shouldn't be interpreted simply literally.

    Yesterday night I worked until midnight and got a headache, tonight I've just got home at 23 o'clock, my career life is not doing very well, I made several wrong directions of efforts in my college.

    I'm sorry I only skimmed the extended reading you shared and haven't got sufficient time to carefully read them.

    I'm very very grateful for your replies.

    At this present I want to say that for a subtle reason which is hard to explain, I found many people are really very lovely, I shouldn't hurt them and I'm not worth receiving kindness from them. I'm so so sorry that I couldn't protect some. I do not deserve all what the arrangers have given me, obviously I have no right to ask even more and more.

    But I want more in the bowel of my heart. I want I am not to be put in a situation where I need to hurt some people to protect some others.

    I listened African tribes music and Pacific isles aborigine music and I feel every human ethnic groups have their own loveliness and the secrets to the ultimate truths shattered into every of them and none of them should be extinguished or be made detriment upon.

    I confess that I did many wrong done to someones in my past, I quarreled and orally abused several of my schoolmates and some members in my family and several strangers on the road, I did so severe guilt that I had caused some of them cry. I was so so bad and I am still bad and selfish now. I am so so sorry that I am not worth the arrangement that I had met them in this short life of mine. Think about that I possibly had been in an absolute void for likely an eternity starting from some kinds of threshold of the time, and those lovely people (even if many of them didn't treat me well and didn't mean all good to me and didn't love me and even hated me) filled the eternal emptiness of my primordial, I have no right to orally abuse them. Though I didn't beat anyone and I always know I should be sympathetic to someone weaker, I hurt someones partially because I mistakenly thought they were superior in holding a menacing power over me, of course this is a hypocrite saying to defend and justify my wrong done. But it is the truth that someone hurts the others sheerly because they are having a strong premonition that if they were not to do so they would not be able to manage some future consequences. I want to say this is quite a dilemma, sometimes it seems that we need to hurt some people in order to protect some others, I just need to strive and climb to a better position and be powerful enough that I'm not to be put into such a kind of dilemma, but the fate is not at my hands, sorry, I seem to be nagging and driving into insanity because I'm not feeling well now, the crisis is tremendous and I have severe problems both in my job and daily life and also my body. I dread those colleagues, tutors, project advisors are going to toss and fool me, play tricks on me and laugh at me in a subtle way, and I will turn out to be a freak, a laugh and total failure, fiasco, debacle and cause many troubles and grossness, all these would lead to an ensuing chain and put some lovely and kind people in a mire, all because of my stupidity, so they better not to treat me well so then I would feel less much burden to requite them, but I need to make these thoughts unspoken so as to prevent them from feeling I'm too troublesome that I do no real help and only unnecessarily complicate things and waste their time, yet sometimes I really worry about if they truly hate me that would make me unable to proceed in my life or to accomplish my missions.
     
  18. tarantulanebula

    tarantulanebula New

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    I now feel that I was very laughable to guess what your "red pill" means as some kinds of psychedelic pills or drugs.

    I thought you meant my writing of English sentences were like from a drug eater. :D I thought (if you really had meant so) you were absolutely right on that and it was amusing.

    Tonight I got a little time right before I go to bed to search the "red pill" and I now know it's from the famous movie "The Matrix" which I have not watched.

    It actually means swallowing the painful truth, not psychedelic pills. :D

    I cry with gratitude that you absolutely fully understand what I mean and even what I was feeling when I was writing these, even if under the case of that my mastering of English language doesn't pass muster.

    I not only tremble in fear when I try to talk with a pretty girl, can't say that I have a social anxiety. Because I even tremble in fear, when I am in my little home, alone, quiet, safe, and playing "League of Legends" maven of strings and preparing to find the righteous timing and direction to cast her ultimate crescendo, and my nervousness and shivering often lead to a 180 degree deviant angle of the direction of the ultimate casting. :D

    I swallow the "red pill" again and again everyday every second every moment and sometimes these are still not enough because I daydream now and then and often ended in a subtle embarrassing situation.

    The future is like a mouth of a super monster with fangs waiting to tear my souls apart.
     
  19. tarantulanebula

    tarantulanebula New

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    I'm a pig, really.
     
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  20. David Bailey

    David Bailey Administrator

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    I have moved this thread out of one of the closed forums - feel free to post here.

    David
     
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