The Universe as a prison

#1
Hello all!
I just finished listening to the latest episode from The Higherside Chats featuring an interview with Tracy Twyman.

It was interesting for sure. But I find her opinion on "what's really going on" to be exceedingly pessimistic. In a nutshell, she believes that we are in a "prison universe", where the only escape is through alchemical means; by creating a new universe for you, you entrap everyone in the previous one you escaped. So the only route to freedom, if you can call it that, is to imprison others.

Also featured was the idea that perhaps the "creator God" is actually an evil tyrant, and TPTB are working toward freeing humanity from his(?) evil clutches.

What's interesting to me about that is, if one is at all versed in the Bible, it is warned that Lucifer has been trying to do just that, convince humanity of the evil nature of God and Lucifer is the great emancipator.

Now, I'll admit, I like looking into these kinds of CT's, mostly for entertainment purposes. I find most of them to be either illogical, incomplete or just plain old silly. But I'd also be remiss if I didn't acknowledge there is definitely some shenanigans going on.

The sheer amount of revelry in all things "satanic" is indeed a pretty large part of our culture. Even if you strip away the residue of claims of the "illuminati", it's completely undeniable that our society as reflected in media has definitely bent toward hedonism and an almost embracing the idea of Satanism.

Again, I'm not some holy roller, I don't even consider myself christian. But damn if looking into this stuff doesn't make one want to start saying their prayers before bedtime.

What do you all think?
 

Brian_the_bard

Lost Pilgrim
Member
#2
Also featured was the idea that perhaps the "creator God" is actually an evil tyrant, and TPTB are working toward freeing humanity from his(?) evil clutches.

What's interesting to me about that is, if one is at all versed in the Bible, it is warned that Lucifer has been trying to do just that, convince humanity of the evil nature of God and Lucifer is the great emancipator.
I went through that myself once and had almost convinced myself that the bright morning star was known both as Lucifer and as Jesus. I was also fascinated by the character Lilith who was Adam's first wife according to ancient semitic texts, and how she became a demon having rebelled against being under Adam's authority. I thought that demons were a fantastic bunch! It all panned out at the time - Jehovah - evil; Lucifer/Jesus - good.

Thank goodness I changed my mind!
 
#4
Hello all!
I just finished listening to the latest episode from The Higherside Chats featuring an interview with Tracy Twyman.

It was interesting for sure. But I find her opinion on "what's really going on" to be exceedingly pessimistic. In a nutshell, she believes that we are in a "prison universe", where the only escape is through alchemical means; by creating a new universe for you, you entrap everyone in the previous one you escaped. So the only route to freedom, if you can call it that, is to imprison others.

Also featured was the idea that perhaps the "creator God" is actually an evil tyrant, and TPTB are working toward freeing humanity from his(?) evil clutches.

What's interesting to me about that is, if one is at all versed in the Bible, it is warned that Lucifer has been trying to do just that, convince humanity of the evil nature of God and Lucifer is the great emancipator.

Now, I'll admit, I like looking into these kinds of CT's, mostly for entertainment purposes. I find most of them to be either illogical, incomplete or just plain old silly. But I'd also be remiss if I didn't acknowledge there is definitely some shenanigans going on.

The sheer amount of revelry in all things "satanic" is indeed a pretty large part of our culture. Even if you strip away the residue of claims of the "illuminati", it's completely undeniable that our society as reflected in media has definitely bent toward hedonism and an almost embracing the idea of Satanism.

Again, I'm not some holy roller, I don't even consider myself christian. But damn if looking into this stuff doesn't make one want to start saying their prayers before bedtime.

What do you all think?
I just started listening to this episode, so can't comment on all things, but will say that I don't view the archetypes and our orientation to them as static.

I don't think the universe was created by a Demiurge or a Benevolent being but that at times our orientation to hierarchy is such that the top of the hierarchy is manifested as one or the other.

As we progress through our story and develop our characters the structures of authority will be at times protective and at other times oppressive. Benevolent hierarchy is rigid only to the point that it is protective of growth and it backs off as soon as the thing it protects outgrows the need for protection. When it fails at this, a cycle of corruption, death, chaos, and re-birth occurs.

I believe that there is balance between the two extremes with oscillation or asymmetry and that on the whole that asymmetry leans towards benevolence because benevolence in the hierarchical structure results in stability and creative growth and the laws of the universe seem to be remarkably stable and consistent and have resulted in incredible creativity.
 
#5
In a nutshell, she believes that we are in a "prison universe", where the only escape is through alchemical means; by creating a new universe for you, you entrap everyone in the previous one you escaped. So the only route to freedom, if you can call it that, is to imprison others.
This sounds like an excuse to see the universe as a dog-eat-dog place and act accordingly.
 
#6
This sounds like an excuse to see the universe as a dog-eat-dog place and act accordingly.
It could be a dog eat dog place, isn't there enough proof the universe doesnt care about our sufferings? The light cant grow with out the dark, we have the power to change that, but it doesn't promise us anything. I'm noticing a change in the way Lucifer is being looked at instead of some evil jealous angel he is now being looked at as the great liberator, knowledge, gnosis of transcending this physical plane. Definitely food for thought. Remember you can be the nicest most giving person in the world and one day you can get hit by a car and perish. Or you can be a man of many evils and commit these atrocities throughout your physical existence. The universe is indifferent this is a fact
 
#12
Energy is neutral is it not? How we use the energy is up to use. You can use a hammer to fox something or you can use it to break someone's fingers. Ndes may preach love, but let's not pretend people didn't have negative ndes. Imo the only way to truly love is to experience every negative thing possible, that way the love grows expands and understands. Otherwise it's stagnant that is why quote on quote negative experiences happen
 
#14
I had a lot of thoughts about my previous comment on a benevolent universe.
At the more materialist end of the spectrum, there are the many arguments regarding 'fine-tuning' of physical constants which make this universe even possible. But that wasn't what I had in mind really. I'm reluctant to say this again, because I didn't join this forum to become a preacher, and if I repeat myself often enough it will sound like preaching. Briefly, our thoughts have power, they don't just affect the way we see the world, like looking through different coloured filters affects our perception, but rather our thoughts affect the way the universe responds to us. It is as though our every thought is a conversation we are having with the universe. What we think will affect what the universe gives us back as a response. But despite that, it isn't a mechanical cause and effect, there is some living warmth in these interactions.
 
#15
This sounds like an excuse to see the universe as a dog-eat-dog place and act accordingly.
Yes, I got this too. The thing about the Gnostic texts and even Kabala (from what little I admittedly know) is it almost becomes like a spiritual atheism, only instead of no god, you are the god, or at least striving to become one. Interestingly, this is also a big part of Mormon doctrine. Those who conduct themselves in utmost righteousness shall inherit worlds of their own in the Celestial kingdom. I also just learned that Joseph Smith was into the Occult and was wearing an amulet of Jupiter when he was killed. He was also the great-great grandson of Samuel Smith, the man who accused Sarah Wilds of witchcraft who was thusly executed. Bizarre connections for sure and it never ceases to astound how these ideas seem to pop up everywhere. So for me, I wonder, does this indicate truth, or proof of the tenacity of the human ego to places itself at the center of the universe? I see great value in deferring oneself in humility to something greater than oneself.

These doctrines seem to hold humanity up as the pinnacle. And while I do believe that humans have absolutely incredible potential, there is something very dangerous in believing that there is nothing greater.

There have been many, many people who have used such ideas to bring a whole lot of death and misery on those around them.

The older I get, the more I appreciate boundaries. When you are young, freedom-absolute freedom- seems like the end goal. Everyone is oppressing you, keeping you down, controlling your life. As I mature I find that absolute freedom is chaos, and it can be downright terrifying. I think we must root ourselves into some kind of framework that inherently sacrifices some of our freedoms. I have to say, this concept really solidified for me after listening to Dr. Jordan Peterson's lectures. What he has to say resonates strongly with me, so it's hard not to parrot him. But I think he speaks truth and when people do that, and do it eloquently, what more can you add?

At this point in time, I believe that we are reflections of the universe as a whole. Not to say we are the center of it, but it's undeniable that we, as does the universe, contain within ourselves a balance of forces. The concept of a masculine force for order and a feminine force for chaos are as old as man himself. We embody this within ourselves, and I think the goal for us to bring these forces into perfect balance.

Perhaps spiritual evolution is not to defeat evil, to become pure goodness. It's to bring the forces of both within us into balance, so that we are at once strong and wise. I cannot remember who said it now, but it has been said that the line between good and evil runs down the heart of every man (Nietzsche?). It's undeniable we all contain within us the ability to to good or evil. I believe we have that choice. I also believe that the push to have people en masse believe that they are inherently either bad (humans are cancer/a virus) or nothing at all (tabula rasa) combined with "and free will is illusory so you cannot do anything to change that" is particularly malevolent. I do believe this is in play, and so I can't help but think that maybe all of this "the elites are into spirit cooking, Crowleyism and the Occult" has some truth to it. "Do what thou wilt" is an attitude that basically says "he who dies with the most power wins." It's a philosophy that not only justifies a dog eat dog world, it encourages it.

Now, I know there's a lot of people out there who claim Crowley was misunderstood or unfairly vilified. I do not believe that is the case. There are many who excuse all of it because of the idea that "magick" can be used for good or evil. Well, perhaps, I've never dabbled in it myself, so I cannot really say. But my gut says to stay away. That tampering with such things is not a path one should choose to go down. Now, maybe my intuition is wrong. Maybe it's bias. Hard to know. But I'm not taking any chances.
 
#16
It could be a dog eat dog place, isn't there enough proof the universe doesnt care about our sufferings? The light cant grow with out the dark, we have the power to change that, but it doesn't promise us anything. I'm noticing a change in the way Lucifer is being looked at instead of some evil jealous angel he is now being looked at as the great liberator, knowledge, gnosis of transcending this physical plane. Definitely food for thought. Remember you can be the nicest most giving person in the world and one day you can get hit by a car and perish. Or you can be a man of many evils and commit these atrocities throughout your physical existence. The universe is indifferent this is a fact
Hmmmm. The Lucifer as savior angle is, once again, inversion.

It's the old paradise lost concept once again. Satan, Lucifer, was freeing Eve from the bounds of a tyrannical god. He set them free! Well, perhaps that is true. But it came at a dear cost, didn't it? Humanity has paid dearly for its freedom. This goes back to the concept of sacrifice, which was brought full circle with the New Testament.

So, Satan emancipated man from the clutches of an evil tyrant but in so doing, curses man with the power to do evil. Power to do good is part of that, but it opened mans eyes to possibilities they weren't aware of before, to be used in which ever way they chose, in other words, free will. But freedom also bears with it the burden of responsibility. With responsibility comes sacrifice. Man sacrificed its safety and immortality by choosing freedom. God eventually allows for a path to posses both freedom and immortality by offering up the greatest of sacrifices, his son. Jesus being the embodiment of perfect benevolence. Pure goodness. This was sacrificed to allow for man to be both free and immortal. Sacrifice is the key.

The philosophy of Satanism bears none of the responsibility. It preaches that no sacrifice needs to be made. That man is complete unto himself and that fulfilling ones own desires and wishes need not carry with it responsibility. Ultimately it's chaos. Anton LeVey did not die a happy man. Crowley died penniless, pathetic and depressed. I have yet to see anyone pursue such a coarse and come out ok in the end.

I think, that since we have chosen freedom, we must then carry the responsibility and bear the sacrifices that come with it. Imprisoning others is not the path to emancipation. We don't need emancipation. We are free. Our choices are nearly infinite. But people confuse freedom with freedom from consequence.

As of yet, no one has figured out how one violates the laws of nature without bearing the consequences of the violation.

To me these "Luciferians" or Satanists (some say there's a difference, some say there isn't) want their cake and to eat it too. They want it all without paying the price.

Ask gravity if it works that way. Jump off a building and it doesn't matter if you want to bear the consequences of trying to defy gravity. You'll still be dead.

For me, it goes back to the idea that we embody within ourselves the ability to do good or do evil. Satan is the embodiment of the potential for evil, selfishness- one who chooses to try to forgo the consequences of freedom.

Satan is a cautionary tale of the depths to which the human spirit can plunge if it refuses to honor the sacrifice. It lies within each of us, and we can bring Hell and all of its demons to life if we so choose. There are many stories that show what the ultimate consequence such a pursuit brings. Stories as old as man himself.
 
#17
It could be a dog eat dog place, isn't there enough proof the universe doesnt care about our sufferings? The light cant grow with out the dark, we have the power to change that, but it doesn't promise us anything. I'm noticing a change in the way Lucifer is being looked at instead of some evil jealous angel he is now being looked at as the great liberator, knowledge, gnosis of transcending this physical plane. Definitely food for thought. Remember you can be the nicest most giving person in the world and one day you can get hit by a car and perish. Or you can be a man of many evils and commit these atrocities throughout your physical existence. The universe is indifferent this is a fact
I think it is quite evident that the physical universe is indifferent to our needs and desires - the prevalence of human suffering due to the outworkings of natural law makes this obvious. For instance, diseases and disfunctions that also plague all mammals, natural disasters like earthquakes, tornadoes, etc. Materialists assume these brute facts of nature clearly imply there is no human meaning (spiritual or otherwise) to this Universe. However, there appear to be ways of understanding these brute facts in a spiritual interpretation. I think Granville Sewell's essay rationalizing the reasons for human pain and suffering is one of the better suggested solutions to this conundrum. Excerpts:

The Regularity of Natural Law
.....gravity, water and fire are responsible for many tragedies, such as airplane crashes, drownings and chemical plant explosions. Tragedies such as floods and automobile accidents are the results of laws of physics which, viewed as a whole, are magnificently designed and normally work for our benefit. Nearly everything in Nature which is harmful to man has also a benevolent side, or is the result of a good thing gone bad. Even pain and fear themselves sometimes have useful purposes: pain may warn us that something in our body needs attention, and without fear, we would all die young doing foolish and dangerous things, or kill ourselves the first time life disappoints us.

But why won’t God protect us from the bad side effects of Nature? Why doesn’t he overrule the laws of Nature when they work against us? Why is he so “silent” during our most difficult and heart-breaking moments? First of all, if we assume he has complete control over Nature, we are assuming much more than we have a right to assume. It does not necessarily follow that, because something is designed, it can never break down. We design cars, and yet they don’t always function as designed. When our car breaks down, we don’t conclude that the designer planned for it to break down, nor do we conclude that it had no designer; when the human body breaks down, we should not jump to the conclusion that God planned the illness, nor should we conclude that the body had no designer.

That we were designed by a fantastically intelligent super intellect is a conclusion which is easily drawn from the evidence all around us. To jump from this to the conclusion that this creator can control everything is quite a leap. In fact, I find it easy to draw the opposite conclusion from the evidence, that this creator cannot, or at least does not, control everything. Nearly everyone seems to assume that if you attribute anything to God, you have to attribute everything to God. And even if we assume he has complete control over Nature it is hard to see how he could satisfy everyone. Your crops are dry so you pray for rain — but I am planning a picnic. It seems more fair to let Nature take its course and hope we learn to adapt. Controlling the motions of all the atoms in the world so that nothing terrible ever happens to us, so that we always get what we most need, is probably not as easy as it sounds!

In any case, what would life be like if the laws of Nature were not reliable? What if God could and did stand by to intervene on our behalf every time we needed him? We would then be spared all of life’s disappointments and failures, and life would certainly be less dangerous, but let us think about what life would be like in a world where nothing could ever go wrong.
.................
Life is a real game, not a rigged one. We know what the rules are, and we plan accordingly. We know that the laws of Nature and of life do not bend at our every wish, and it is precisely this knowledge which makes our achievements meaningful. If the rules of Nature were constantly modified to make sure we achieved our goals — whether they involve proving Fermat’s Last Theorem, getting a book published, finding a cure for Alzheimer’s disease, earning a college degree, or making a small business work — we would derive no satisfaction from reaching those goals. If the rules were even occasionally bent, we would soon realize that the game was rigged, and just knowing that the rules were flexible would cheapen all our accomplishments.
..................
Many of the tragedies, failures and disappointments which afflict mankind are inevitable consequences of laws of Nature and of life which, viewed as a whole, are magnificently designed and normally work for our benefit. And it is because we know these laws are reliable, and do not bend to satisfy our needs, that our greatest achievements have meaning.
Another section of this essay deals with the even larger portion of human suffering traceable to the need for human free will. I think this type of rationalization is good, and apparently deals with the truly outrageous and egregious human suffering with no meaning or purpose to the individual that is unfortunately the lot of mankind, as the inevitable result of the vastly complex set of tradeoffs necessary to build a self consistent set of natural laws leading to a world of human experience where human choices matter and learning can take place. In other words there appears to be a limit to the ultimate power of the super intellect behind the Universe.
 
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#19
My phone doesn't let me quote properly so whatever.

Anton LeVey did not die a happy man. Crowley died penniless, pathetic and depressed. I have yet to see anyone pursue such a coarse and come out ok in the end.

Those with the most dog eat dog, no morals, do whatever it takes to fulfill your desires attitude are and always have been the people who own the world in case you didn't know. I'd say that proves the efficiency and accuracy of their way of thinking. Regardless of how anyone else feels about it.
 
#20
it takes to fulfill your desires attitude are and always have been the people who own the world in case you didn't know. I'd say that proves the efficiency and accuracy of their way of thinking. Regardless of how anyone else feels about it.
Well... if your goal in life is "owning the world", sure!
It's not that being ruthless and with no morals comes with all the advantages. You'll be up against other animals of the same kind.

Take Pablo Escobar, he sure owned the world (well at least his world, Colombia) for a while... how did that worked for him? And I don't just mean how he ended up. I mean in general... how did his life go? He had so much money he didn't know what to do with it and had to live half of his life segregated and isolated from the world. Most of his relative and close friends where killed by his enemies: not sure how efficient was the thinking behind that.

cheers
 
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