I'm really looking forward to this one. Pls let me know any thought/questions.
The other posts are "pinned" so they stay at the top - look at the iconEDIT: Sorry, it does, but it's way down in the list.
sorry. fixed now.@Alex: possible technical forum glitch question: how come I see this thread (I saw it when clicking "new posts"), but when I go to the "Skeptiko Shows" sub-forum or using the "Discuss the Show" tab, it doesn't appear?
EDIT: Sorry, it does, but it's way down in the list. Maybe it has something to do with the new calendar year. People going to the "Skeptiko Shows" sub-forum or using the "Discuss the Show" tab will miss it.
??? I'm not seeing the relevance of an ABC reporter's (or anyone for that matter) experience with mediation as stress-relief to Psi or any of the other major topics discussed on Skeptiko. Meditation as stress relief is widely accepted by the status quo.
What's next - interviewing someone who found yoga helped them become more flexible? :D Yes that's sarc but I really don't see any relevance , benefit or boundary pushing in this interview. What might I be overlooking?
I can't put my finger on it. But this argument feels to have an element of circularity about it. At any rate I certainly don't find it a satisfying argument.If consciousness can influence the brain, then consciousness cannot be an illusion or an epiphenomenon and therefore materialism must be false.
??? Okay, the actuality is that all of the physical is an expression of primary consciousness.If consciousness can influence the brain, then consciousness cannot be an illusion or an epiphenomenon and therefore materialism must be false.
If consciousness can influence the brain, then consciousness cannot be an illusion or an epiphenomenon and therefore materialism must be false.
Given that both your premise and your conclusion are incorrect I'm sorry to read that. You're barking up the wrong tree. Oh and BTW, materialism does not hold that consciousness is an illusion - just that it is generated by physical means.I have several articles on my blog that go into some of these issues in more detail:
Meditation is being conscious of the activity of the mind. When you meditate you observe the activity in your mind. When you make these observations it is a subjective experience like feeling warm, or seeing the color blue. You can't meditate if you are not conscious.
Meditation, consciousness of the activity of the mind, has been shown to alter the arrangement of cells in the brain. (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1569494/?tool=pubmed) If you are conscious a TV show these changes don't occur, but if you are conscious of he activity of your mind they do occur.
Since consciousness can alter the brain, consciousness cannot be an illusion produced by the brain or an epiphenomenon of the brain (an epiphenomenon is a phenomenon that cannot change the phenomenon that causes it) consciousness must be real.
Eliminative materialism states that consciousness is an illusion so eliminative materialism must be false.
Consciousness cannot be explained as an emergent property of the brain. Emergent properties are the result of other known properties and have to be explainable through the characteristics of those properties. But, there is no way to explain how a subjective experience like what the color blue looks like can be caused by any physical properties or physical processes. How can changing ion potentials across membranes in brain cells make the sky appear blue as we perceive blue? We can explain how the visual system can distinguish something different about different colors, but there is no way to explain why colors look the way they do. Consciousness is fundamentally different from anything physical.
I have several articles on my blog that go into some of these issues in more detail:
http://ncu9nc.blogspot.com/2012/08/the-materialist-explanation-of.html
If one starts out by assuming that consciousness is non-physical, then one has shown that something non-physical has changed the brain. On the other hand, if one starts out by assuming that consciousness is physical, then one has shown that something physical has changed the brain. Hardly a definitive line of reasoning, since the conclusion directly follows from what one believes at the outset.I don't understand what could be circular about consciousness changing the physical brain indicating a non-brain based explanation for consciousness.
In order for the brain to produce a specified subjective experience, there must be feedback from consciousness to the brain in order for the brain to learn to do it. This learning could not happen if consciousness was an illusion.
If you are told to imagine the color green you could not do that if the experience of green was just an illusion. In order for the brain to be able to imagine specific colors, it must first learn to do so, and to learn that there must be influence from consciousness to brain. If consciousness was just an illusion the interaction would be one way. You would feel like you knew what the brain was doing but the brain would never know what you felt it was doing. You wouldn't be able to learn to imagine specific colors because the brain wouldn't know what color, if any, it caused an illusion of. But since we can imagine specific colors, there must be influence from consciousness to the brain, so consciousness cannot be an illusion.
If someone tells you to meditate, and you comply, the brain produces the subjective experience of observing and knowing the activity of the mind. After producing this subjective experience the brain changes. The brain has learned from producing a subjective experience. These changes, learning, could not occur if consciousness was an illusion.
If consciousness can influence the brain, then consciousness cannot be an illusion or an epiphenomenon and therefore materialism must be false.
After watching this, I have a much better understanding why Alex wants to talk to this guy. Thanks for posting it!Alex, I hadn't heard about this, so I'm listening to this video presentation.