Vaccines (and autism)

#42
This is actually a huge problem with you, Hurm. That is not a fact. At least to my knowledge. Can you show any data to prove that millions died from SV-40 contamination?

Around 98 million people were vaccinated from 1955 to 1963 with doses that were contaminated with SV-40. That is a fact.
That's fair. I don't know exactly how many people were killed or had lives seriously impaired by SV40.
 
#43
That is certainly true of Polio. Haven't researched other diseases enough to argue. Deaths from polio had decreased 90% by the time the first Polio vaccines became available. As soon as the Polio vaccination first became available, it was suddenly halted after hundreds of people contracted polio from some bad batches of the vaccine and were paralyzed. Fear of the vaccine spread rapidly. Vaccination campaigns were carried out in certain areas, but were far from universal. Yet the Polio infection rate continued the plummet which began before vaccination began. By 1980 when there was major push to eradicate polio with universal vaccination, Polio was already almost non-existent.
Hurm,

A buddy of mine mentioned this to me a ways back and I've been meaning to look into it ever since. He could not recall where he originally got the info. Do you recommend any references where you came across this info? Also, was it really as high as 90%!?
 
#44
Hurm,

A buddy of mine mentioned this to me a ways back and I've been meaning to look into it ever since. He could not recall where he originally got the info. Do you recommend any references where you came across this info? Also, was it really as high as 90%!?
Remember it's polio deaths that had declined by 90%, not cases. If you search my name and polio i posted a graph awhile back.
 
#48
Hurm,

A buddy of mine mentioned this to me a ways back and I've been meaning to look into it ever since. He could not recall where he originally got the info. Do you recommend any references where you came across this info? Also, was it really as high as 90%!?
I looked a bunch of different places. Didn't save my links and don't have time at the moment to look them back up again.
 
#51
Hurm,

A buddy of mine mentioned this to me a ways back and I've been meaning to look into it ever since. He could not recall where he originally got the info. Do you recommend any references where you came across this info? Also, was it really as high as 90%!?
Another tidbit I picked up somewhere is that the Polio epidemic might have resulted from the over usage of some types of early antibiotics.

Extremely interesting interview here with a deep rabbit hole:
 
#53
Is a population that has disease, and survives, stronger as a whole? I'm unsure, and haven't really found a satisfactory answer.

Consider as one example:

http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-...xpert-answers/hygiene-hypothesis/faq-20058102
Is a population that uses modern medicine to prevent prenatal deaths, early childhood disease, and other forms of "interference" with naturally occurring lethal consequences stronger as a whole?

I don't get how this parsing is attempted between "good" and "bad" forms of life extending technology. Seems rather binary, and as a result, a rather self evident equation.

That doesn't even touch on the rather horrid ethical question inferred by your question. Population control and/or selection through non-use of live saving technology as a policy?
 
#54
Is a population that uses modern medicine to prevent prenatal deaths, early childhood disease, and other forms of "interference" with naturally occurring lethal consequences stronger as a whole?

I don't get how this parsing is attempted between "good" and "bad" forms of life extending technology. Seems rather binary, and as a result, a rather self evident equation.

That doesn't even touch on the rather horrid ethical question inferred by your question. Population control and/or selection through non-use of live saving technology as a policy?
I never said the questions were easy or comfortable.

Perhaps god/MAL put these diseases on the earth for a reason? He seems to have devised some pretty brutal methods of "population control" ;)
 
#55
I have heard it said that only about one person in 200 infected with polio, get paralysis. The rest get only mild flu symptoms.

This might possibly complicate the picture here, because it might be that certain circumstances/foods/etc might change that ratio and thus change the number of people obviously infected with the virus.

David
 
#56
Is a population that uses modern medicine to prevent prenatal deaths, early childhood disease, and other forms of "interference" with naturally occurring lethal consequences stronger as a whole?
I suspect that there is always a danger that medical scientists and drug companies will push past the optimum point - as seems to be the case with statins!
I don't get how this parsing is attempted between "good" and "bad" forms of life extending technology. Seems rather binary, and as a result, a rather self evident equation.
The real problem is that medical science is extraordinarily fond of manipulating the results of studies to mean what they want them to mean!

http://www.doctoringdata.co.uk/

David
 
#57
I never said the questions were easy or comfortable.

Perhaps god/MAL put these diseases on the earth for a reason? He seems to have devised some pretty brutal methods of "population control" ;)
My point is I don't believe its a coherent question unless you are willing to make it "all or none". Why ask the question of vaccines and not of all other forms of human technology/ingenuity? After all we've been using our noggins since the dawn of time to try and foil all the various lethalities around us.
 
#59
My point is I don't believe its a coherent question unless you are willing to make it "all or none". Why ask the question of vaccines and not of all other forms of human technology/ingenuity? After all we've been using our noggins since the dawn of time to try and foil all the various lethalities around us.
Fair enough.
 
#60
This seems a different argument to me. (e.g., greed)
Well greed - i.e. money is at the bottom of a lot of this. Pharmaceutical companies want to make money, and they make vaccines!

I think I have come to realise that there really is such a thing as too much medical care. Examples might include:

Prescribing statins that offer at best a small reduction in heart attack rates, and can produce some really nasty side effects.

Vaccinating people against diseases that are normally fairly trivial.

Pestering older people to be screened for a variety of unpleasant diseases. Simply waiting for the results can be very stressful, and there can be false positives.

Treating terminally ill cancer sufferers with chemotherapy long after it is obvious that they are close to death.

Endless campaigns about healthy eating - which are particularly perverse because many doctors now think some of the guidelines are totally wrong.

David
 
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