Weighing the soul

C

Chris

#1
Probably just a measure of my ignorance, but this was new to me:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duncan_MacDougall_(doctor)

My initial reaction was the same as that of the critics (contemporary and later) - extreme scepticism - but on the other hand it's not clear that an alternative explanation of the measurements has been provided, and it seems no one has attempted a replication.
 
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C

Chris

#3
You mean weighting the soul. I do not know what think but I found another article with other research on the topic:

http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/column.php?id=204863
Thanks for that link. When I read about the East German experiments by "Elke Fisher" in which a much smaller decrease of 1/3,000 of an ounce was measured, I was inclined to think that - whatever had been measured there - at any rate it disposed of MacDougall's claim. But it seems no one has succeeded in tracing this work, or the people mentioned, further than an article in an American newspaper (Weekly World News 1 Nov 1988):
http://books.google.ca/books?id=lu0DAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA5&lpg=PA5

As for the Dutch study by "Drs Malta [Matla] and Zaalberg Van Zelst," this is mentioned in various places as a successful replication of MacDougall's work (albeit having measured a rather larger average weight - two and a quarter ounces). But after ploughing through a lot of web pages quoting one another, I managed to find a detailed account of their work in Hereward Carrington's "Modern Psychical Phenomena" (1919):
https://archive.org/stream/modernpsychicalp00carruoft#page/154/mode/2up

It seems that what they actually did was not to measure the weight of people before and after death. Instead they summoned a spirit into a cardboard tube covered with tinfoil, and measured its mass and volume! Scarcely the same thing...

Obviously this is a rather murky area.
 
#4
I learned of this a while ago. There was even a terrible movie with Sean Penn titled "21 Grams" that incidentally had nothing to do with McDougal's work.

IMO, no soul = no reason to look for it. At least according to the current scientific paradigm. Why waste time looking for, or measuring something, you "know" doesn't exist?
 
#9
I learned of this a while ago. There was even a terrible movie with Sean Penn titled "21 Grams" that incidentally had nothing to do with McDougal's work.

IMO, no soul = no reason to look for it. At least according to the current scientific paradigm. Why waste time looking for, or measuring something, you "know" doesn't exist?

The English word, soul, was used by the King James interpretors as their best word for an idea in the Greek Bible which was "psyke'."

That Greek word came directly from the Hebrew Bible, and was their best guess for the word "nesphesh."
Nesphesh in the Hebrew means "mind."
My point here is to suggest that our mind doe come back.
Our mind is "born again", to use the bible posture here.
Our Unconscious mind is one we are just being to realize exists and is working all the time, unnoticed by humans earlier, unless we buy into stories about a Third Eye possibility kind of tale.
What modern scientists have been doing has revealed much, as they employ MRI analysis and various psychological tests.

I believe the "soul" is our own unconscious mind, arriving from time to time again and again, yet a mind we hardly recognize consciously.
But this single mind apparently is in great communication with other Unconscious minds and working amongst us all as if a great shepherd which herds our progress and has the ability to even reveal itself to people as a voice or set of ideas they realize comes from outside of their conscious world.
 
#10
The mind is weightless, of course.
The mind is as immaterial as Energy, and does not require Space/time to exist.

But the mind is also like a great river full of genes in the blood of the living people who can and do regenerate it again and again in new births as the old die and are replaced.
This idea was implied by Dawkins in his book about genetics:

"The very idea of a gene pool has no meaning if there is no sex. 'Gene Pool' is a persuasive metaphor because the genes of a sexual population are being continually mixed and diffused, as if in a liquid. Bring in the time dimension, and the pool becomes a river, flowing through geological time..."
Richard Dawkins, The Ancestor's Tale , page 432
 
#11
You mean weighting the soul. I do not know what think but I found another article with other research on the topic:

http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/column.php?id=204863

Hmmm,...

For us, the bible is the only real book of "mysteries" which has any power today.
The Book of Revelations says stuff which seems to agree with the science into the Unconscious mind now being studied:

Revelation 21:4-5
And God, (blessing them with Total Phylogenetic Consciousness: [Carl Jung]), shall wipe away, (in their awakened Unconscious Mind: [Freudian Hypothesis]), all tears from their eyes, (for life is a genetically rememberable continuum from one generation to the next living generation); and (in genetic memories of prior existences held in our Unconscious Mind) there shall be no more death... (for we shall not all "sleep:" [1Co15:51], but total phylogenetic Consciousness will have evolved), ... neither sorrow... (for we, individually, are part of a living continuum of our own past(s), flowers upon our genetic vine),... nor crying,... (for we are happy in these revelations of reconstitution from our human gene pool), neither shall there be any more pain... (as is circumvented by hypnosis even today): for the former things (in Modern Homo sapiens paradigm of the life experience) are passed away.
And He,
(the ancient, phylogenetic, Collective Unconscious Mind), that sat upon the throne (within the kingdom of the evolving Homoiousian sapiens' brain: [Luke 17:21]) said, Behold, (in this way, through evolution: [Gen 9:11-18]), I make all things (in human experience) new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true, (rational, and scientifically feasible), and (worthy of) faithful (belief).
 
#12
Hmmm,...

For us, the bible is the only real book of "mysteries" which has any power today.
The Book of Revelations says stuff which seems to agree with the science into the Unconscious mind now being studied:
Many mystic traditions have relevant contributions, which are too numerous to mention.
 
C

Chris

#14
Debunked materialistic non-sense . The immaterial human soul has no weight either .
Nonsense it may be, but what I thought was interesting was how little sense the sceptics' debunking comments made.

Perhaps it's an article of faith for both materialist sceptics and immaterialist believers that this has to be nonsense...
 
#15
Debunked materialistic non-sense . The immaterial human soul has no weight either .

Right about the "soul."

The soul is English used in 1600AD by the bible translators who used the word for what Jews called the "mind."
People did not then realize that genes reproduce our mind, the Unconscious part we now do not consciously recognize as working in all our mental process.
It is weightless, indeed.
 
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