What do you think happens after death to people who commit suicide?

[David Bailey]

I'm curious, because I'm considering suicide. Well, actually, it's more like I'm hoping I can work up the courage to finally do it, because I already feel like it's what I should do. I figured I'd have a good chance of getting some informed opinions here.

You aren't very specific about why you want to commit suicide - so I have sent you a PM. Remember that if the afterlife is real, there is clearly a purpose to our lives here, and you will be frustrating that purpose - the only obvious exception is those who are terminally ill, but I don't think that is your situation.

David

 

[JD1]

The afterlife info suggests it's your own higher self that chose your life challenges, not something other beings wanted.

Maybe these can help:

In any event, I feel for the pain that's making you consider this, JD. But I really would suggest you talk about it to a professional therapist. We can at any one time be convinced we have the correct perspective on what is happening to us, our possibilities, etc., but seeking help can eventually show you that your perspective can be radically altered - for the better.

I've actually seen those videos before.

The first one mentions that people don't commit suicide unless it had always been a "potential" for them, which they were aware of before they were born. Given that, I don't see why suicide should be judged harshly.

The guy being interviewed in the second video has also done at least one other interview with the same host. I don't remember exactly which interview it was in, but he did say something I found interesting. He said that it's possible for a person to reach a point where it becomes impossible to accomplish whatever goals they established for their life, and that when that happens, their soul initiates an "exit strategy" to get them out of that life so they can get a fresh start. If that's true, I think I'm one of those people. I feel very strongly that there's nothing left for me here.

Have you ever considered an Ayahuasca ceremony?

That's something that's helped many, many people who have experienced a lot of pain.

I've heard of it, but I wouldn't have any idea how to actually make it happen or where to go to make it happen. It's not like you can order it from Amazon or something.

 

[Red]

I've actually seen those videos before.

The first one mentions that people don't commit suicide unless it had always been a "potential" for them, which they were aware of before they were born. Given that, I don't see why suicide should be judged harshly.

The guy being interviewed in the second video has also done at least one other interview with the same host. I don't remember exactly which interview it was in, but he did say something I found interesting. He said that it's possible for a person to reach a point where it becomes impossible to accomplish whatever goals they established for their life, and that when that happens, their soul initiates an "exit strategy" to get them out of that life so they can get a fresh start. If that's true, I think I'm one of those people. I feel very strongly that there's nothing left for me here.




I've heard of it, but I wouldn't have any idea how to actually make it happen or where to go to make it happen. It's not like you can order it from Amazon or something.

JD, this is what I would tell my kids - suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem.

If you are so physically disabled that you are in constant pain with no healing in sight, then yes, I would say that maybe suicide is a consideration. If you are a youngster, which I think you are, who is experiencing psychological pain, or something that requires help through family, friends, or medically, then please do not pursue this avenue. There are people that love you, and that would be devastated. Desired effect or not, you owe it to yourself to keep going until such time that you will realize that there is more out there for you to see and experience and know in this life, which is the blink of and eye in the larger scheme of things.

 

[Michael Larkin]

If that's true, I think I'm one of those people. I feel very strongly that there's nothing left for me here.

I doubt you really feel that. Else why are you here? Seems to me you are looking for someone to convince you not to do it. Someone to give you a good reason not to do it. Wish I could come up with one, but I don't think I can -- in the end, the motivation has to come from yourself, and in any case, I don't really get what your issue is. You say:

The short version is that, for various reasons, I was robbed of my youth, and I know with absolute certainty that I will be miserable for the rest of my life. Despite my physical age, I still have the mind of a teenager. My mentality hasn't changed in the slightest from when I was 16, and I want to act like a teenager and have people see me as one, but that's not possible. No matter what happens now, there will always be an enormous void in my soul that I'll never be able to fill.​

I suspect anyone wanting to help you would need to know a lot more than this. Why not pick up the phone and talk to someone in complete confidence (the Samaritans in Britain, or the national suicide prevention lifeline in the USA)? Why kill yourself before you've explored the possibility that things may not be as bad as you think?

I feel this could be the wrong place for you to try to discuss this matter. If you like to communicate using text, there are various chat facilities available on both sides of the pond dedicated to people having thoughts of suicide. You say you can't work up the courage to kill yourself -- but surely you'd agree it takes less courage to make a phone call or engage in chat in an appropriate place?

 

[Typoz]

This is not a lightweight topic, I've kept out of this discussion till now because it is difficult to engage with the subject in a way which gives it its proper weight. Nevertheless, I put my foot forward with some trepidation...

Having read the description of the circumstances so far, it still feels to me as though the things which are unsaid may be more relevant than what has already been outlined. Again I don't wish to disrespect or make light of anything I've read here.

Perhaps I should move on to firmer ground, and instead of addressing the immediate situation, describe a little bit here and there from my own experiences. Myself, I've been at the edge of suicide more than once. The first time, it seemed like an ideal solution, at least at first. But it raised other matters. In making this act, I would be sending a message, one which I hoped would make other people sit up and take notice. However, as I looked around, it was disconcerting to see that most suicides in my part of the world tended to be classed as something like "suicide while the balance of the mind was disturbed". I always found that deeply disrespectful and demeaning - someone commits a serious act and is dismissed as "mentally unbalanced", a code for "mad", "crazy", "foolish", or any number of other terms which fail to treat the matter seriously. It seemed clear enough that it would not make the world take notice at all.

There was a second aspect which also came to me as I mulled over the consequences. I saw the world as pretty messed up, and it wasn't where I wanted to be. There seemed a lack of justice. This led me to the next thought - that if I went ahead and carried out the act, it would cause deep distress, pain, grief, lasting a lifetime for many other people. Even those people who on a daily basis I perhaps thought didn't seem to care, I could see their own pain would be many times what I was going through. A solution to my own pain and misery would be to create pain and misery for multiple other people. Thus I could only see it as creating more injustice, rather than removing pain and misery from this world, I would be adding to it, many times over. The worst part was that the people who would suffer most would be those who were least responsible. It was this sense of the disproportionality and unjustness of the consequences which pulled me back.

There is more, but perhaps this is a place to break off for now.

 

[Typoz]

Later, I came to understand the world in terms of reincarnation. That is a big topic in its own right, but the key part of how it made sense was that the distress and difficulties in which I found myself were more a less a continuation of where the life of the earlier persona had ended. Unlike cases of childhood reincarnation memory, it wasn't something which gradually faded as I grew up. Rather it was the opposite. During my earliest years there were just a few fragments of recall, though the background in the sense of 'self' was always there.

But as I transitioned to adulthood, it was as if a doorway was opened in my mind. All the parts which were closed off, giving me a relatively placid and happy childhood were opened up. For me adulthood wasn't about getting a job, or getting married, taking adult responsibilities in the usual way, but it was the picking up of responsibility in another more direct way. I found myself re-united, I became a more complex personality with many more aspects which hadn't manifested before. That was a gift for which I'm grateful. But it was also the burden of carrying the weight of the troubles generated in a previous century.

Over the years I've uncovered more details of my (most recent) past-life persona, details which I cannot share here, but there is always an ambiguity, an uncertainty about the cause of death. It may have been suicide, it may have been sickness, it may have been any of a number of things. However it does seem to me just as much now as it did nearly forty years ago, that I continued in this life from a previous life which was cut short in some way.

In this sense, that of a life cut short, it hardly seems to matter whether it was suicide or not, the end result is the same: rather than starting in this life as a blank page on which anything could be written, instead I picked up here from the point at which I left off last time.

 

[JD1]

JD, this is what I would tell my kids - suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem.

If you are so physically disabled that you are in constant pain with no healing in sight, then yes, I would say that maybe suicide is a consideration. If you are a youngster, which I think you are, who is experiencing psychological pain, or something that requires help through family, friends, or medically, then please do not pursue this avenue. There are people that love you, and that would be devastated. Desired effect or not, you owe it to yourself to keep going until such time that you will realize that there is more out there for you to see and experience and know in this life, which is the blink of and eye in the larger scheme of things.

My problems are permanent. I am disabled in a way, I have unfixable physical problems, and my age can't be reversed. I honestly don't care if there are people who "love" me, and I don't think there are any such people anyway. My mother clearly wanted me to have a traditional marriage so she could use the woman I married as a surrogate daughter, because she wanted daughters but got sons instead. She doesn't really care about what I wanted, she just wanted me to facilitate the things she wanted. My father is a patronizing idiot and constantly insults my intelligence, and for whatever reason, I've simply never liked him, much less wanted him involved in very personal parts of my life.

Even disregarding all of that, I still hate them for ever having me in the first place, because I've realized that I was always going to be miserable in this world. A part of me hopes they'll suffer if I kill myself, especially my mother, who always liked to spew platitudes at me about how I could just choose not to be bothered by things, how I "let" events traumatize me (implying that it's my fault), how "there's more to life" than the things I care about, and how my life being completely destroyed is because God didn't want me to live the life I wanted. I wish I could see her being tremendously upset at my death (or anything, really) and having everyone around her say "Why don't you just choose not to be so upset?" See how she likes it.

I really don't care if there are other things to see. I'm not interested. I'm tired of people telling me that. I'm tired of fighting everyone instead of having people just accept that I want certain things and supporting me in that.

I doubt you really feel that. Else why are you here?

A few reasons:
The gun I bought a while ago was found and confiscated. I'm not sure exactly how to kill myself now.

I want to get in shape before I do it, just to prove that I could and wasn't just lazy.

I'm not sure if I want to leave something behind to tell my parents how much I hate them.

Sheer cowardice combined with literally being too depressed to do anything, even kill myself. There are, however, many days where I just keep taking sleeping pills until I finally fall asleep, which is kind of like killing myself in a way.

Seems to me you are looking for someone to convince you not to do it.

I can assure you that that's not it. If I'm looking for anything, it's to be convinced that I can kill myself and be allowed to forget this entire life ever happened. I never want to remember this life ever again for the rest of eternity. I've come to hate myself so much that I'm incapable of believing I even deserve help. If someone appeared to me tomorrow and offered me everything I even wanted, I'd refuse. They'd have to force me. That's why even if there's a good afterlife, that wouldn't be enough for me, because I'd hate myself too much to accept it. That's why I want my memory completely erased.

Someone to give you a good reason not to do it. Wish I could come up with one, but I don't think I can -- in the end, the motivation has to come from yourself, and in any case, I don't really get what your issue is.

I suspect you're overthinking it. It really is as simple as "I didn't get to enjoy being young as a young person, I can't live with that, and nothing else holds any appeal for me."

 

[Michael Larkin]

I can assure you that that's not it. If I'm looking for anything, it's to be convinced that I can kill myself and be allowed to forget this entire life ever happened. I never want to remember this life ever again for the rest of eternity. I've come to hate myself so much that I'm incapable of believing I even deserve help. If someone appeared to me tomorrow and offered me everything I even wanted, I'd refuse. They'd have to force me. That's why even if there's a good afterlife, that wouldn't be enough for me, because I'd hate myself too much to accept it. That's why I want my memory completely erased.

If you don't want help, then why the heck come here? I can't figure you out, and it seems pointless continuing. Accordingly, I've put you on ignore. It's up to other people whether they continue to engage with you, but at this point I'm going to make a graceful exit.

 

[Red]

JD,
Ask your spirit guides for help, ask them for strength, and KNOW that you are loved.

 

[Typoz]

There's so much in the thoughts of JD1 which resonates with me.

Our individual circumstances are/were different. That though is not what I want to comment on. Rather it is the trains of thought and the ideas. There's a lot that I can relate to. It echoes places where I've been.

There is still however a bright side. For one thing, having stared into the abyss like this, nothing ever holds any fear ever again - this is a source of strength.

Another, perhaps the only real positive thing in circumstances like this, is that time is unstoppable. No matter how slowly and painfully it may seem to creep along, it is in motion. Think of it as like being on a long, slow-moving train, travelling though a never-ending tunnel. The one certainty, as much as that of day and night here, is that the wheels are moving, the train is rolling along. Sometimes this is the only thing to hold on to, the fact that time keeps moving, and just as certainly as it entered into the darkness, is that it will eventually, no matter how out-of reach it may seem, it will eventually emerge into light once more.

One other thing which I most support is that of being true to oneself. There is nothing to gain from trying to do or be as someone else. Following one's own path is perhaps the most important of all.

Last, there is somewhat of a well-kept secret. The impact of free will on all of this. In one particular sense free will is the big key here. When we go through the most difficult times, it can seem a desperately lonely place, where others may misunderstand or perhaps seem to trivialise the seriousness of things. The secret here is that we are not alone. We are accompanied on our path by spiritual companions. But it is our own free choice as to whether to offer an opening so that our companions may interact, to assist, to offer support. Without an invitation, then the illusion of being alone can be maintained, they may not intervene. Perhaps that's why we come to this world to experience this, something which in the non-physical worlds would not be possible, at least not in the same way.

 

[Doppelgänger]

I'm curious, because I'm considering suicide. Well, actually, it's more like I'm hoping I can work up the courage to finally do it, because I already feel like it's what I should do. I figured I'd have a good chance of getting some informed opinions here.

Hi JD1, I hope you see this.

I have kept on an eye on this thread and wasn't sure if I should contribute... but...

Your life is valuable. You have your own unique point of view. You have people who care and even love you. The suffering you have now may inform you search, or why else would you post on Skeptiko?

You yourself are valuable, and I bet, with a lot of reading and introspection, you would realize that.

I was hospitalized at 16 due to suicidal thoughts (and attempts), and it was .. awful. But, while there, I learned a lot about myself and especially about other people. Later in life, I lost a close family member to suicide. I loved that boy so much, and the pain of his loss, and how his mother, father, siblings, cousins, and son feel, is overwhelming. I realized suicide is a bad way out because those of us who suffer, are also the ones who could produce so much, if allowed. And we leave such devastation behind us, if we choose it.

I'm not telling you that you can't choose it, but just to really think about it. You could end your life, now, or really delve into the reasons that cause your depression. When I was suicidal, I wish someone had told me to look into the REAL reasons I was depressed, what was going on. I am one of those that thinks the current state of psychology is awful, that it is trying to adapt the individual to a sick culture/state/etc.

I wish I had known that when I was young. To know that I wasn't the crazy one! It is the system that is crazy, and most of the time, therapists/psychologists/etc are simply trying to force you to adapt into the current societal norms.

I don't know... I just hope this helps.

 

[Sciborg_S_Patel]

Suicides may become tormented parasites:

An Interview with Fred Alan Wolf, by Lucy Gillis - Improverse

...she was looking directly at me and smiling. I heard her reply, "Oh, you know where you are? Who are you? Where do you come from?" She approached me in an overly friendly manner. I boasted, "Yes, I know where I am and I can return home any time I want to."

"You can, can you?" She asked with great interest as she came close to me. I was getting frightened. This was my first trip and I didn't know what danger I might be in by my just being there. Then I looked at her eyes. I don't quite know how to describe what I saw, but her eyes began to spin. They appeared to me as rotating pinwheels of spiraling colors. She was now too close for comfort. I knew then that I had to leave and I exercised the "leaving ritual," the only one I knew would get me out of there fast. I yelled bloody murder.

I awoke in bed next to Nancy, and this time for real. It must have been past four in the morning and Nancy wasn't too happy to have me just pop up in bed talking a blue streak. I not only was wide awake, I was fully conscious and quite lucid and gregarious. Loudly I said to her, "Nancy, wake up. I must describe this dream to you now before I forget it." Nancy, hardly believing her eyes or ears, was rudely being shaken from a deep sleep of her own. And dazed but understanding, she listened to the story of my voyage.

There's also the question of where entities in Siren Call of Hungry Ghosts come from.

Seems very sad to just become some desperate parasite on the other side, hurting others in this way, while still being in pain. Or, at the least, it seems mental feelings in this life don't have relief on the other side upon suicide. Not the super pleasant afterlife people like to contemplate but I find the uber-positive, no-repercussions NDE as total descriptor of what happens post-life unconvincing.

 

[Obiwan]

Suicides may become tormented parasites:

An Interview with Fred Alan Wolf, by Lucy Gillis - Improverse



There's also the question of where entities in Siren Call of Hungry Ghosts come from.

Seems very sad to just become some desperate parasite on the other side, hurting others in this way, while still being in pain. Or, at the least, it seems mental feelings in this life don't have relief on the other side upon suicide. Not the super pleasant afterlife people like to contemplate but I find the uber-positive, no-repercussions NDE as total descriptor of what happens post-life unconvincing.

The best way to form a view of the possible consequences of suicide, if we survive death, is to research widely. I'd say for me, the answer is unclear. Klimo's book is interesting but doesn't resolve it imho. There are many, many reasons why a person might surrender their own life, from the selfish to the noble. It appears to me that the consequences depend on the motive. I find determining my own real motives for many things I do, quite difficult tbh. I'd be surprised if there were no consequences as from my reading of survival sources generally, almost every decision we make in life has a consequence in this and possibly any next life.

One of the potential risks of suicide is that it has impact on others as well as ourselves - difficult to see what the consequences might be for us after death in that scenario. In addition, we would be making the assumption that things can't be worse than they already are -that's a big assumption imho.

Siren Calls is an odd book. I think Joe Fisher's interpretation of what happened is interesting but he draws conclusions much more widely and not entirely reasonably imho. It's an fascinating read, I've read it a couple of times, but I do get an impression of a somewhat self-absorbed individual who doesn't really think about the consequences for others of the decisions he makes. Though Joe took his own life, I am not convinced it had anything to do with his experiences described in the book really though they may have exacerbated his mental state.

 

[Lincoln]

This is just my personal opinion. I think that only you can judge for yourself if that is the route you want to take. I carry this over to any consequences if there is an afterlife. One thing you cannot do is lie to yourself, you will know if you made the right decision. Was the situation you were in unfixable to the point where suicide was the only way out? I do believe if there is a life review, it is our own selves that do the judging. Because honestly who knows us better? And one thing I also know is that we judge ourselves the harshest out of everyone else.

All I can say is to really not make that decision a rash one.

I seriously wish you the best JD1, this life is not easy. But you are not alone.

 

[Sciborg_S_Patel]

One of the potential risks of suicide is that it has impact on others as well as ourselves - difficult to see what the consequences might be for us after death in that scenario. In addition, we would be making the assumption that things can't be worse than they already are -that's a big assumption imho.

Ah yeah, this was my central point. I think the idea that suicide as a way to escape suffering is incredibly mistaken. I think, if anything, the situation may only get worse. This world seems to be the place of transformation, and being here is where changes can be made.

"In your world there is only the ugly caterpillar, as in the world above there is only the beautiful butterfly. Only in this world, my world, can the ugly caterpillar become the beautiful butterfly."
-Grant Morrison, Invisibles.

People tell stories to themselves, and I think one creates a caricature where one cannot be happy. Why would such caricature result in a good afterlife when that other place seems more malleable to our thoughts/personality? Consider Sartre's No Exit...Hell is those people living with their self-loathing for eternity.

 

[JD1]

This is just my personal opinion. I think that only you can judge for yourself if that is the route you want to take. I carry this over to any consequences if there is an afterlife. One thing you cannot do is lie to yourself, you will know if you made the right decision. Was the situation you were in unfixable to the point where suicide was the only way out? I do believe if there is a life review, it is our own selves that do the judging. Because honestly who knows us better? And one thing I also know is that we judge ourselves the harshest out of everyone else.

All I can say is to really not make that decision a rash one.

I appreciate your acknowledgement that there even are unfixable situations that suicide is the only way out of.

I've been talking to a few people over the past few days. The more I do, the more I become convinced that killing myself would be the right decision. The only alternatives anyone seems to be able to offer me all involve me not being true to myself. I don't think I'd judge myself harshly. A lot of my problems involve things I can't control.

But you are not alone.

Yes, I am. Completely. At least in terms of actually getting what I want instead of being told to want something else. I've been rejected and cast aside by reality itself. I don't think I'd mind becoming that parasite that was described earlier. If anything, it could be payback.

 

[Sciborg_S_Patel]

Yes, I am. Completely. At least in terms of actually getting what I want instead of being told to want something else. I've been rejected and cast aside by reality itself. I don't think I'd mind becoming that parasite that was described earlier. If anything, it could be payback.

You'd want to harm innocents as payback? In any case the parasites are still tormented, you may have missed that part, because of their selfishness. Is that person you really want to be - so selfish that you would be okay with harming people who've done nothing to do, tormenting them because you took the easy way out and got stuck in a terrible afterlife?

I don't believe you're that kind of evil person, I think these negative emotions are just weighing on you.

Honestly it seems quite a leap to claim reality has rejected you. Lots of people don't have great childhoods, have endured horrible things, and still make peace with this life. Most if not all of the human race has to move their wants to something else when some desire is no longer achievable. Your wants are not you, any more than an addict's addictions are them.

You said you didn't want to be perceived as lazy, but while you may try to make it seem suicide is an act of defiance requiring courage it just seems like the opposite to me. Courage is facing circumstances, and defiance is not being undone by one's circumstances. I think you have the capacity for both courage and defiance, but you should put those virtues to proper use.

 

[Sciborg_S_Patel]

I've heard of it, but I wouldn't have any idea how to actually make it happen or where to go to make it happen. It's not like you can order it from Amazon or something.

You could just do holotropic breathing, though not sure if you need a facilitator.

Probably also live as a teenager through lucid dreaming at night, perhaps even walk through into genuine worlds. Better solution that casting your soul adrift and hoping for some positive afterlife when you're more likely to suffer.

 

[Steve]

Seems very sad to just become some desperate parasite on the other side, hurting others in this way, while still being in pain. Or, at the least, it seems mental feelings in this life don't have relief on the other side upon suicide. Not the super pleasant afterlife people like to contemplate but I find the uber-positive, no-repercussions NDE as total descriptor of what happens post-life unconvincing.

Jurgen Ziewe says that's the reason he wrote his latest book, to let people know that your 'issues' in this life won't disappear on the other side. The 'now' is what matters, you have to deal with them sooner or later if you want to grow.

 

[JD1]

Honestly it seems quite a leap to claim reality has rejected you.

Not from my perspective. I've tried to talk to people about this before. All of them have completely dismissed everything I felt and thought. Much like what's happening here.

Jurgen Ziewe says that's the reason he wrote his latest book, to let people know that your 'issues' in this life won't disappear on the other side. The 'now' is what matters, you have to deal with them sooner or later if you want to grow.

A lot of my issues are physical. If I got a new life and a new body, I'd be fine. So they can go ahead and reincarnate me. I'd like to forget this life ever happened anyway.