What do you see as that world view and does it look like this? Gnostic Christian Jesus said, "If those who attract you say, 'See, the Kingdom is in the sky,' then the birds of the sky will precede you. If they say to you, 'It is under the earth,' then the fish of the sea will precede you. Rather, the Kingdom of God is inside of you, and it is outside of you. [Those who] become acquainted with [themselves] will find it; [and when you] become acquainted with yourselves, [you will understand that] it is you who are the sons of the living Father. But if you will not know yourselves, you dwell in poverty and it is you who are that poverty." Regards DL
Some translations seem to say the Kingdom of God is outside and all around you And some say the Kingdom of God is within you None seem to say it is both outside and within
I did not make up the lines are posted. Do you not recognize them to be from the Gnostic Christian archives? That view was old in some traditions even before Gnostic Christianity was invented. If you can't see God in all then you can't see God at all. Remember that before the more stupid religions separated God from us by putting it up there somewhere, God was seen as being on earth with us. Remember that even those stupid religions have God/Jesus returning to his kingdom here on earth. Regards DL
I see... You are taking those lines from the Nag Hammadi Gospel of Thomas But it is still interesting how different the various canonical translations are on this matter
Yes. They are calling it Gospel of Thomas saying 3. A few of the older traditions have the same type of thinking. This was before they separated God from man and put him up there somewhere instead of recognizing that man created the God's and it was our greatest concept. They also forgot that we were superior to the imaginary Gods. Regards DL
Yes. Some are written to slave us to religion while Gnostics Christian verses are written to free us from religions of the immoral kind. That would include freeing us from Christianity and Islam. That is why Constantine's church decimated us and burned our scriptures. Freedom of religion that Christianity spouts today, was not allowed when they had political power to back them up. Regards DL
I understand what you are saying. That banishment was accepted by the sheeple. Not the thinking people. That is why Christianity decided to try to kill all the thinkers who would not kowtow to Rome. God has always been here and now to those who know how to find him or her and name God I am, and mean themselves. Just in case you have not seen this. Seek God my friend. He is inside of you. Trust me, I know that as a fact. Regards DL
Seems to me it'd be around there. Sounds like what the clerics have been saying about their varying religions for millennia.
No. I see the benefits of following what you think and not the thinking of others. Although I do recognize, if other than apotheosis or revelation, that we are all following the thinking of others to some extent. What danger do you see in following your own thinking? Regards DL
What is around and can be proven is only yourself. That is not some guy in the sky. Gnostic Christian Jesus said, "If those who attract you say, 'See, the Kingdom is in the sky,' then the birds of the sky will precede you. If they say to you, 'It is under the earth,' then the fish of the sea will precede you. Rather, the Kingdom of God is inside of you, and it is outside of you. [Those who] become acquainted with [themselves] will find it; [and when you] become acquainted with yourselves, [you will understand that] it is you who are the sons of the living Father. But if you will not know yourselves, you dwell in poverty and it is you who are that poverty." Regards DL
I was referring to the dangers in the doctrine implied in your statement "...(to) name God I am, and mean themselves." To think of oneself as god
I am an esoteric ecumenist and that seems quite natural to me. God is what we are told by all religions to emulate and follow. I see the word God here as the highest ideal that a person can reach. Consider with that definition in mind. The God of an ant, is an ant. The God of a lion, is a lion. The God of a man, should be a man. That is Gnosis and Jung and Freud would agree as their Father Complex says the same thing, just in a different and evolutionary way. Note that all the rules and laws we follow have been taken from the words of people and not a supernatural God. Regards DL
If you take yourself to be your own god, I would say that your god is no god at all You are not god; nor are you a god (I am referring to your personal human self - perhaps you mean something else?) If you mean your human self, you may be better to use a different word, because clearly you do not mean by the word god what is traditionally meant by that word. Also in what I have read of your posts thus far I do not recognise Gnosticism or esotericism. I am not sure, but I get the impression you may be a materialist – is that correct?
I looked up gnosticism on wikipedia which has more details but I think the video below does a better job of explaining gnosticism in the context of western culture. (The wikipedia article reads like a list of facts accumulated by people who don't understand them in a wider context ... which might be a problem with wikipedia in general.) (I like the youtube channel this video comes from. The author is seminary professor so the videos are somewhat academic but they hold my interest well enough unlike other academic videos I've viewed.) Gnosticism and the Early Church From the video (not direct quotes): Gnostic fundamentals: The world isn't real The world is unpleasant ("evil"), and was not created by God but by a lesser being. The spiritual realm is superior to the physical realm. Elitist - gnostics don't try to spread their ideas. Gnosticism was not an actual well defined religion Gnosticism did not pre-date Christianity Christianity did not borrow from gnosticism. There is no single set of beliefs that are "gnostic" "Gnostic" describes trends or impulses. Examples: "You do not have a soul, you are a soul that has a body" This is an example gnostic thinking it is not consistent with Christian teaching in which God created man in His image. It denies the reality of the physical. Any kind of pursuit of ascetic practice in pursuit of spirituality being superior to the mundane is also "gnostic". In the move "Star Wars", when yoda says "Luminous beings we are... not this crude matter, that is a gnostic point of view. For most of history all that was known of gnosticism was from books that rejected it. It was only relatively recently that actual gnostic texts were found. Gnostics believe a set of views related to the created world, salvation, and the life of a believer. Salvation comes from an ascetic life style.
The ususal canonical translation is "the kingdom of God is within you" but it usually comes with a footnote saying the word for "within" can also be translated "among".
http://io9.gizmodo.com/how-an-obscure-2nd-century-christian-heresy-influenced-1609994487 How an Obscure 2nd Century Christian Heresy Influenced Snowpiercer http://lukewarmradicalism.blogspot.com/2014/02/gnosticism-in-lego-movie.html Gnosticism in "The Lego Movie"
