Why I now pray

#1
I know this is a very long post. But I'm processing. I'm scared. I don't fully understand all these experiences...thanks for understanding.

I wrote this in response to the discussion thread from the interview with Joy Lin. In the discussion thread, the issue of measurable energy frequency was raised. That definitely grabbed my attention. I definitely believe some spirits have more energy than others...

/////
I don't believe in ghosts. I don't believe in God. As a non-believer, death is a finality.

Accordingly, through the years I've dismissed strange experiences as coincidences, phantosmia, hypnagogic hallucinations, or non-convulsive seizure activity. But more and more I'm experiencing things that defy any logical place in my box of dismissals.

I now find science has glaring deficiencies in that it strictly limits itself to observations and attributes of matter. Sure observation of the observable gives us understanding. It even gives us some degree of "precognition." We can "predict" the life cycles of plants and animals; "predict" weather based on seasons; "predict" celestial events based on astronomical phenomena.

But basing our understanding of life on the observable lends itself to ignoring everything happening in our non-observable universe. What of consciousness with all of its manifestations? We cannot observe reason, emotion, imagination, morality, and knowledge, but would anyone deny their existence?

On the other end of the spectrum is spirituality. But I find it difficult to wrap my head around some concepts such as astrology and tarot cards. How can the position of the stars, ancient light that may or may not even exist now given time and distance, influence the here and now? How can randomly selected man-made cards be a projection of life?

Yet I'm confronted with experiences that need some explanation. Experiences that leave me wondering not just what it is, but also what I am. Seemingly random thoughts and images with startling clarity, yet disconnected to a purpose, pop in my head.

I don't understand how I can just "know" some specific details about people who I'm just vaguely acquainted with or who are outright strangers.

I find it unsettling when a complex sequence of coincidences reveals eerie similarities between my thoughts and images to people unknown to me.

I meditate. While meditating I see the darkness. I hear my breathe. I consciously pull my thoughts back to my breathing as it slips about, here and there. Meditation on May 12 was like any other day of meditation. Slippery thoughts about baking, dutifully pull back to concentration of breathe. Then in the darkness a woman's hand appears.

The image is like a photograph. The skin complexion is dark, like someone from a South Asian country. The nails are filed to a point; the nail polish is dark.

Then a ring appears on the hand. It is a long oval shape. The stone is a bright turquoise color. I think to myself, "turquoise." Then the strong sense, "no, blue like turquoise, but not a turquoise stone."

I sense very strongly that this woman has been burned. I think, "this cannot be; her hand is not burned. This woman cannot be burned." But the feeling comes back stronger: "yes, this woman has been burned." I feel confused; I don't understand since her hand is not burned.

I see her in full. Her hair is long, well below her shoulders. It's dark and coarse. Everything is clear except her face. Her face is so heavily shadowed over, so I cannot see any features. She wears a sari. I see it very clearly I think, "yellow sari with black scroll work. Then the sense, "no, not yellow, saffron."

I sense this is for her daughter. I think, "ok, I understand this is for your daughter." Then I sense, it is daughter(s).

I say I need a name. I hear the word, but I can't make it out. I say I'm sorry, but I can't pronounce it. Several times the word is conveyed, each time I apologize for not being able to pronounce it. Then the sounds come in letter form: M-A-J.

But as I try to grasp the name, I begin to feel her grief. It swells in me. It is a deep inconsolable grief. So deep my head goes back as I cry out in pain. I open my eyes and the image is gone. But her grief lingers in me.

This was a message, but I did not know to whom I was suppose to deliver it to. I do not know anyone from India or a South Asian country. I do not know any one who has family in that area of the world.

But the grief I felt was so deep, so real, I felt I needed to preserve the details until I could determine who I was suppose to tell this experience to. I wrote the details down with time and date.

On May 24th, I was in the kitchen cleaning up after making a batch of cupcakes. At the kitchen sink I felt a strange chill sensation run through the right side of me. I sensed a strong presence behind me--so strong I turn around startled and call out, "who's there?"

It's a galley kitchen, sink and dishwasher against one wall; counter, stove, and refrigerator along the opposite wall. I stepped over to the kitchen counter. In my peripheral vision, I saw a slight movement as a loud rush of sound filled the air. I turned toward the window to see a massive branch of a giant oak tree slowly crash to the ground. The branch is massive; as thick in diameter as a large tree, and as wide as a house. I was so shaken, I texted my sister.

During the text conversation I relayed a couple of other unexplained events--NOT the vision I mentioned above, but two other events in which visions came to me that proved accurate. As a nonbeliever my sister challenged and discounted everything. Our text conversation then ended abruptly when she suddenly stopped responding.

My sister called me a couple of hours later. She said our text conversation ended abruptly because she was with a friend. I've never met this friend. But some months ago my sister mentioned the friend in relationship to her friend's family pet. That's the only time my sister every spoke to me about this friend, and the only connection I have to her friend.

She told her friend about my visions. I'm sure my sister told her I was screwy spiritualist type who believes in ghosts because she said her friend's response was to tell her that spiritualism can run very deep in believers. She said her friend then told her about someone very close to her who was deeply spiritual.

Without any knowledge of the vision I had two weeks earlier, my sister retold a story that was a reflection of my vision. I believe the intended recipient of the message in my vision is her friend.

My vision was of a woman.

Her friend's story is about a woman.


The woman in my vision had a daughter or daughters.

Her friend is the daughter of the woman central to the story


The woman in my vision was of a specific nationality (denoted by the ethnicity of her dress)

My sister started her recital of the story by stating the friend is from a South Asian country.


The woman in my vision had died

The woman in her friend's story had died


The woman in my vision was overcome by a deep grief

The woman in the story took her life because she was overcome by a grief so deep and felt she could not go forward in life


The woman in my vision had been burned

The woman in the story took her life by setting herself on fire


I interrupted my sister, telling her to stop because all of what she was saying was freaking me out. I told my sister about my vision. I emailed her the notes I wrote two weeks earlier.


My sister agrees that the details in her friend's story align with my vision. But she does not want me to meet her friend. She believes it will only be upsetting to her friend. I understand that--and I'm fine with my sister's decision.

Later my sister texted me with one last detail. The woman was Buddhist. Instead of being laid to rest in Buddhist ceremony, she was laid to rest in accordance to Hindu funeral rites. The reason being is the woman had a vision of being sweep up by the Hindu God of Fire. Concerned about her peace, the family consulted a Buddhist monk; all agreed it was best to lay her to rest in accordance with Hindu burial rites, insisted of Buddhist rites.

I mentioned the woman in my vision wore a yellow sari with black scroll work. When I acknowledged the sari as yellow, she corrected me: "saffron". After learning about the Hindu burial, I looked up the meaning of the color of yellow in Hindu. On the site I looked at, yellow is listed as saffron. In Hindu "saffron." is the most sacred of colors. It represents Fire and Purity; fire burns away all impurities.

Later my sister texted to say if my vision was about her friend's mother, she should have appeared in a red sari, the traditional color for i saris. I disagreed given the woman's vision of the Hindu Fire God, way of death, and Hindu burial rites. But I'll give that detail to my sister and the skeptics. Even without that detail, there's enough similarities to convince me my vision was about this woman.

Still I feel uneasy with how this ended. This is not an isolated experience for me. Aside from not knowing what this is, but these experiences challenge my understanding of my world and of myself.

In this particular experience, there's the unsettling feeling associated with the power of this force. The catalyst for my contacting my sister was the strange physical sensation I experienced, followed by the sudden splintering of that massive oak tree branch. I was with my sister for hours the weekend before. During that time it never occurred to me to discuss the spiritual aspects of my life. Had I not felt a presence, had the giant oak tree not splintered, I would not have contacted my sister.

The catalyst and timing of my disclosures about psychic events culminated with my non-believer sister being in the company of this particular friend. My sister then felt compelled to tell her friend about me. In doing so, her friend discloses personal details of her life; in turn, my sister feels compelled to tell me those details. My sister was in her car driving home when she called and relayed her friend's story to me. So clearly she felt a strong need to convey that story to me immediately after leaving her friend's house.

I feel there are some very powerful forces in play here. It's not just the accuracy of my vision, the complexity of circumstances to connect my sister, her friend, and me, but the fact that the neighbor's tree was destroyed to make me contact my sister. The massive tree branch is still sitting out there. I see it from my living room and kitchen windows. That was a mighty force. It frightens me.
 
#2
Your experiences are well beyond mine. Perhaps above my pay grade as well. But If I found myself in similar straights. I would would try to resolve my fears. One method that has been helpful to me is to convince or remind myself that I am a powerful spiritual being. I hope this is of some small consulation.
 
#3
Your experiences are well beyond mine. Perhaps above my pay grade as well. But If I found myself in similar straights. I would would try to resolve my fears. One method that has been helpful to me is to convince or remind myself that I am a powerful spiritual being. I hope this is of some small consulation.
Yes, fear is no way to live. Prayer only helps so much. I've come to accept I have questions that cannot be answered. But asking them eases my anxiety. Something about giving voice to fear makes it less frightening.
 
#4
Very interesting post.

I've been meditating for about a year and a half. Occasionally I get something semi-vivid, but mostly its just meaningless hypnagogic imagery. Several months ago, though, I did experience something that has stuck with me.

The scene came through as a warm, bordering on hot, morning in a suburban type setting. Which was odd because it was mid winter here in the upper Midwest. I could see part of a house with tan siding, but the focus was on the attached 2-car garage. It had a one long white door, with windows down the middle. Paved driveway. A woman and young child (I've forgotten whether it was a boy or a girl) come home - from shopping I intuit. She opens the garage door and is surprised to see the husband's/father's tan SUV inside as he is supposed to be at work. I can sense her apprehension and see her touch the hood to see if it is warm. At this point the scene ends with my realization that the husband has taken his life inside the house.

I relay this only as a point of interest. It is fairly general and I have had no confirmation that any of it is factual.
 
#5
Very interesting post.

I've been meditating for about a year and a half. Occasionally I get something semi-vivid, but mostly its just meaningless hypnagogic imagery. Several months ago, though, I did experience something that has stuck with me.

The scene came through as a warm, bordering on hot, morning in a suburban type setting. Which was odd because it was mid winter here in the upper Midwest. I could see part of a house with tan siding, but the focus was on the attached 2-car garage. It had a one long white door, with windows down the middle. Paved driveway. A woman and young child (I've forgotten whether it was a boy or a girl) come home - from shopping I intuit. She opens the garage door and is surprised to see the husband's/father's tan SUV inside as he is supposed to be at work. I can sense her apprehension and see her touch the hood to see if it is warm. At this point the scene ends with my realization that the husband has taken his life inside the house.

I relay this only as a point of interest. It is fairly general and I have had no confirmation that any of it is factual.
Ricochet, thank you for sharing your experience.

I find when the imagery evolves with some logical context, it later connects to real people/events. Your imagery/vision is really very specific to number of individuals involved; gender of individuals; relationships between individuals; and the event that occurred.

It took me a long time to accept the visions I've had related back to real people and events. So a couple of months ago I started to journal all visions that had logical context. They all related back to real people/events. So now I'm frightened. I stopped meditating a couple weeks ago because I didn't want to have any more visions.

I'm trying to figure out what this is, what I am, and what to do about it.
 
#6
One thought that occurred to me is that sometimes those who have passed, maybe especially but not exclusively in traumatic circumstances, may find themselves with "unfinished business" with the living. Sometimes it might just be a wish to say 'goodbye', or it may be to reassure the living that death is not the end, or perhaps to make amends or give or seek forgiveness.

It seems to be fairly common that the bereaved feel that they are in communication with their own deceased loved ones. But not everyone is able, for one reason or another, to enter such direct contact. This might motivate a recently deceased person to seek out other paths, such as via a self-described medium, or through anyone who is open to such contact, such as through dreams, or perhaps - I speculate here - through someone who is meditating.

Some of what I've put seems supported by recorded accounts, but I also speculate a little (or a lot). However if there's anything to this, it may be that these visions described in this thread may be an attempt at making such communication. The meditator is not the intended recipient, merely a conduit.
 
#7
I know this is a very long post. But I'm processing. I'm scared. I don't fully understand all these experiences...thanks for understanding.

I wrote this in response to the discussion thread from the interview with Joy Lin. In the discussion thread, the issue of measurable energy frequency was raised. That definitely grabbed my attention. I definitely believe some spirits have more energy than others...

/////
I don't believe in ghosts. I don't believe in God. As a non-believer, death is a finality.

Accordingly, through the years I've dismissed strange experiences as coincidences, phantosmia, hypnagogic hallucinations, or non-convulsive seizure activity. But more and more I'm experiencing things that defy any logical place in my box of dismissals.

I now find science has glaring deficiencies in that it strictly limits itself to observations and attributes of matter. Sure observation of the observable gives us understanding. It even gives us some degree of "precognition." We can "predict" the life cycles of plants and animals; "predict" weather based on seasons; "predict" celestial events based on astronomical phenomena.

But basing our understanding of life on the observable lends itself to ignoring everything happening in our non-observable universe. What of consciousness with all of its manifestations? We cannot observe reason, emotion, imagination, morality, and knowledge, but would anyone deny their existence?

On the other end of the spectrum is spirituality. But I find it difficult to wrap my head around some concepts such as astrology and tarot cards. How can the position of the stars, ancient light that may or may not even exist now given time and distance, influence the here and now? How can randomly selected man-made cards be a projection of life?

Yet I'm confronted with experiences that need some explanation. Experiences that leave me wondering not just what it is, but also what I am. Seemingly random thoughts and images with startling clarity, yet disconnected to a purpose, pop in my head.

I don't understand how I can just "know" some specific details about people who I'm just vaguely acquainted with or who are outright strangers.

I find it unsettling when a complex sequence of coincidences reveals eerie similarities between my thoughts and images to people unknown to me.

I meditate. While meditating I see the darkness. I hear my breathe. I consciously pull my thoughts back to my breathing as it slips about, here and there. Meditation on May 12 was like any other day of meditation. Slippery thoughts about baking, dutifully pull back to concentration of breathe. Then in the darkness a woman's hand appears.

The image is like a photograph. The skin complexion is dark, like someone from a South Asian country. The nails are filed to a point; the nail polish is dark.

Then a ring appears on the hand. It is a long oval shape. The stone is a bright turquoise color. I think to myself, "turquoise." Then the strong sense, "no, blue like turquoise, but not a turquoise stone."

I sense very strongly that this woman has been burned. I think, "this cannot be; her hand is not burned. This woman cannot be burned." But the feeling comes back stronger: "yes, this woman has been burned." I feel confused; I don't understand since her hand is not burned.

I see her in full. Her hair is long, well below her shoulders. It's dark and coarse. Everything is clear except her face. Her face is so heavily shadowed over, so I cannot see any features. She wears a sari. I see it very clearly I think, "yellow sari with black scroll work. Then the sense, "no, not yellow, saffron."

I sense this is for her daughter. I think, "ok, I understand this is for your daughter." Then I sense, it is daughter(s).

I say I need a name. I hear the word, but I can't make it out. I say I'm sorry, but I can't pronounce it. Several times the word is conveyed, each time I apologize for not being able to pronounce it. Then the sounds come in letter form: M-A-J.

But as I try to grasp the name, I begin to feel her grief. It swells in me. It is a deep inconsolable grief. So deep my head goes back as I cry out in pain. I open my eyes and the image is gone. But her grief lingers in me.

This was a message, but I did not know to whom I was suppose to deliver it to. I do not know anyone from India or a South Asian country. I do not know any one who has family in that area of the world.

But the grief I felt was so deep, so real, I felt I needed to preserve the details until I could determine who I was suppose to tell this experience to. I wrote the details down with time and date.

On May 24th, I was in the kitchen cleaning up after making a batch of cupcakes. At the kitchen sink I felt a strange chill sensation run through the right side of me. I sensed a strong presence behind me--so strong I turn around startled and call out, "who's there?"

It's a galley kitchen, sink and dishwasher against one wall; counter, stove, and refrigerator along the opposite wall. I stepped over to the kitchen counter. In my peripheral vision, I saw a slight movement as a loud rush of sound filled the air. I turned toward the window to see a massive branch of a giant oak tree slowly crash to the ground. The branch is massive; as thick in diameter as a large tree, and as wide as a house. I was so shaken, I texted my sister.

During the text conversation I relayed a couple of other unexplained events--NOT the vision I mentioned above, but two other events in which visions came to me that proved accurate. As a nonbeliever my sister challenged and discounted everything. Our text conversation then ended abruptly when she suddenly stopped responding.

My sister called me a couple of hours later. She said our text conversation ended abruptly because she was with a friend. I've never met this friend. But some months ago my sister mentioned the friend in relationship to her friend's family pet. That's the only time my sister every spoke to me about this friend, and the only connection I have to her friend.

She told her friend about my visions. I'm sure my sister told her I was screwy spiritualist type who believes in ghosts because she said her friend's response was to tell her that spiritualism can run very deep in believers. She said her friend then told her about someone very close to her who was deeply spiritual.

Without any knowledge of the vision I had two weeks earlier, my sister retold a story that was a reflection of my vision. I believe the intended recipient of the message in my vision is her friend.

My vision was of a woman.

Her friend's story is about a woman.


The woman in my vision had a daughter or daughters.

Her friend is the daughter of the woman central to the story


The woman in my vision was of a specific nationality (denoted by the ethnicity of her dress)

My sister started her recital of the story by stating the friend is from a South Asian country.


The woman in my vision had died

The woman in her friend's story had died


The woman in my vision was overcome by a deep grief

The woman in the story took her life because she was overcome by a grief so deep and felt she could not go forward in life


The woman in my vision had been burned

The woman in the story took her life by setting herself on fire


I interrupted my sister, telling her to stop because all of what she was saying was freaking me out. I told my sister about my vision. I emailed her the notes I wrote two weeks earlier.


My sister agrees that the details in her friend's story align with my vision. But she does not want me to meet her friend. She believes it will only be upsetting to her friend. I understand that--and I'm fine with my sister's decision.

Later my sister texted me with one last detail. The woman was Buddhist. Instead of being laid to rest in Buddhist ceremony, she was laid to rest in accordance to Hindu funeral rites. The reason being is the woman had a vision of being sweep up by the Hindu God of Fire. Concerned about her peace, the family consulted a Buddhist monk; all agreed it was best to lay her to rest in accordance with Hindu burial rites, insisted of Buddhist rites.

I mentioned the woman in my vision wore a yellow sari with black scroll work. When I acknowledged the sari as yellow, she corrected me: "saffron". After learning about the Hindu burial, I looked up the meaning of the color of yellow in Hindu. On the site I looked at, yellow is listed as saffron. In Hindu "saffron." is the most sacred of colors. It represents Fire and Purity; fire burns away all impurities.

Later my sister texted to say if my vision was about her friend's mother, she should have appeared in a red sari, the traditional color for i saris. I disagreed given the woman's vision of the Hindu Fire God, way of death, and Hindu burial rites. But I'll give that detail to my sister and the skeptics. Even without that detail, there's enough similarities to convince me my vision was about this woman.

Still I feel uneasy with how this ended. This is not an isolated experience for me. Aside from not knowing what this is, but these experiences challenge my understanding of my world and of myself.

In this particular experience, there's the unsettling feeling associated with the power of this force. The catalyst for my contacting my sister was the strange physical sensation I experienced, followed by the sudden splintering of that massive oak tree branch. I was with my sister for hours the weekend before. During that time it never occurred to me to discuss the spiritual aspects of my life. Had I not felt a presence, had the giant oak tree not splintered, I would not have contacted my sister.

The catalyst and timing of my disclosures about psychic events culminated with my non-believer sister being in the company of this particular friend. My sister then felt compelled to tell her friend about me. In doing so, her friend discloses personal details of her life; in turn, my sister feels compelled to tell me those details. My sister was in her car driving home when she called and relayed her friend's story to me. So clearly she felt a strong need to convey that story to me immediately after leaving her friend's house.

I feel there are some very powerful forces in play here. It's not just the accuracy of my vision, the complexity of circumstances to connect my sister, her friend, and me, but the fact that the neighbor's tree was destroyed to make me contact my sister. The massive tree branch is still sitting out there. I see it from my living room and kitchen windows. That was a mighty force. It frightens me.
I can certainly understand why you feel upset! I have only had the mildest brush with paranormal phenomena, but even without much personal experiences, the various subjects discussed here have an unsettling effect on me too..

First I totally agree that science is limited - perhaps more than you realise - it ignores things it should obviously not ignore, and it is complacent and corrupt in a variety of ways. You might find this thread interesting:
http://www.skeptiko-forum.com/threads/critiques-of-science-as-currently-praticed.2959/
Obviously science has contributed a great deal of accurate information, but also a great deal of dross, and a completely phoney sense that paranormal phenomena are unreal/a mistake/product of a primitive mind!

I think it is interesting that it would seem we don't live in the world science describes, but in one in which all sorts of things are possible. In a way, that realisation is also a comfort because the conventional world described by science is rather drab - consciousness is just some sort of mistake - all our feelings are just the result of various hormones - our consciousness definitely ends at death etc. All that drab certainty is gone!

I hope you find this forum a useful place to discuss your experiences - even if it is not always soothing!

David
 
#8
David Bailey,
Thank you for sharing the link to Sciborg_S_Patel's post. It was an interesting post and article. I didn't realize journals used volunteer reviewers. Having worked in labor relations and Human Resources I know how difficult it is for any organization to manage quality of work from paid employees. So I can't comprehend an organization using volunteers in work critical to their mission and purpose.

On other matters...
"...consciousness is just some sort of mistake - all our feelings are just the result of various hormones - our consciousness definitely ends at death etc."

There was a time that I believe this--that death was a finality. Experiences like the one I wrote about on this post steered me in another direction. I was once the least spiritual member of my family. The only one who would say out right that I was an atheist and dead was dead. While I don't subscribe to conventional religious dogma, I am now deeply spiritual.
 
#9
One thought that occurred to me is that sometimes those who have passed, maybe especially but not exclusively in traumatic circumstances, may find themselves with "unfinished business" with the living. Sometimes it might just be a wish to say 'goodbye', or it may be to reassure the living that death is not the end, or perhaps to make amends or give or seek forgiveness.

It seems to be fairly common that the bereaved feel that they are in communication with their own deceased loved ones. But not everyone is able, for one reason or another, to enter such direct contact. This might motivate a recently deceased person to seek out other paths, such as via a self-described medium, or through anyone who is open to such contact, such as through dreams, or perhaps - I speculate here - through someone who is meditating.

Some of what I've put seems supported by recorded accounts, but I also speculate a little (or a lot). However if there's anything to this, it may be that these visions described in this thread may be an attempt at making such communication. The meditator is not the intended recipient, merely a conduit.
Typoz,
I read your post a few ago and it left me thinking--may be way too much, about why I was chosen as the conduit by these particular spirits. What's baffled me for several years is the fact I never open the door. The spirits just came walking into my life. So why me? Why not the lady down the street who meditates and throws in some yoga every morning to boot?

The experience I described in this post is not an isolated event. There are others. And your comment got me thinking about the common threads that lightly bind the spirit, message recipient, and me. These common life experiences make me sensitive to the spirits' circumstances.

So now I'm wondering if it be something more than just the spirit seeking the first receptive open channel. Could it be the spirit selects a medium who will be sensitive to the issues surrounding the cause of death and the relationship between the spirit and the message recipient? Would a spirit who took her own life select a medium who embraced a religion with a mandate against suicide? I wonder...

The threads that bind are mother-daughter relationships, and suicide. While mother-daughter relationships are a common theme in life, suicide is not. It may just be coincidental, but may be not.
 
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