Zach Abraham R
Member
Yes. Do you have some kind of problem with White People?
Wait, we're talking about groups and how the "White" group has been victimized? Did I read that correctly?
paraphrasing.
Yes. Do you have some kind of problem with White People?
Wait, we're talking about groups and how the "White" group has been victimized? Did I read that correctly?
Are you talking to me?would like hearing your opinion even if we're not in the same camp so to speak
Its his "shtick".I don't think I'm in the minority here when I question what the hell you are talking about, especially with no "homework" attached, especially when your personal bias couldn't be clearer from the comments you've made.
If you think hearing about it is bad, try living in it.
I grew weary of hearing how White People are responsible for every ill in the world 20 years ago.
I've paid enough. Done. Over. I'm not putting up with it anymore.
What!!?!?! This thread has just reached a new low.
Thing is, I don't really feel connected to South Africa as a whole, but to a rather small region of it. When I travel to other parts of the country, I feel a tiny degree of being culturally and environmentally out of step. So I assume my sense of a home place is based on where my upbringing took place. I'm also sure these kinds of cultural and topological eccentricities must have a developmental role on who we are as people, at least in nuance.
That being said, a family member of mine visited Ireland some years ago and was plagued by militaristic and violent dreams.... at the time I wondered if this could be related to a hardcore unionist ancestor we have (about four generations back - a marcher and all that crap). So I don't rule out ancestral memory as a phenomena, but I also think it could be physiological in some way (genetic/epigenetic/who knows) and I'm not sure if it has any transmigrational dimension.
Anyway, immigration IS a part of my ancestral experience.
As for tribal spirituality, I wouldn't denigrate it at all, there's true timeless wisdom and practice there.... but since the universe/life/sentience/society seems to have an evolutionary bent... I reckon contemporary spiritual perception should too (or at least adapt to its time). Hey, maybe even reincarnation as a phenomena is evolving in some way. At the moment I'm trying to building-block my way into a kind of 21st century animism.
The whole conversation brings to my mind James Baldwin, the American author. He travelled to Africa expecting the experience to be a home coming.... in reality, it made him realise that he's far more American than he is African.
As an aside, some Afrikaner cultural organisations have tried in the past to have themselves registered with the UN as an indigenous African tribe.
But, as you say, who knows?
All the best.
Edit: Just wondering.... is the cultural/environmental setting that lead to the 'pagan' way of relating to life even in existence anymore? I'm not well informed on the subject, so I ask this humbly: is ancient paganism still appropriate to 21st century Europe? Has it evolved over the last few thousand years (apart from Christianised Folk magic and Saint worship)?
Please understand, I'm genuinely curious..... not trying to jump on anyone's beliefs.
Rather like Charlie, I feel that if the media endlessly treat white people as second class, they will not produce a 'rainbow nation', but quite the opposite. I wish Nelson Mandela were still around, he might be able to offer a bit of common sense.Wait, we're talking about groups and how the "White" group has been victimized? Did I read that correctly?
Rather like Charlie, I feel that if the media endlessly treat white people as second class, they will not produce a 'rainbow nation', but quite the opposite. I wish Nelson Mandela were still around, he might be able to offer a bit of common sense.
The same goes for positive discrimination. If white people know that they weren't hired, or offered a university place, because a less well qualified person of another race turned up, that will stoke intense resentment.
Sometimes I think the 'Left' aren't interested in everyone getting on together, because that would destroy their political platform!
David
you're conveniently missing the fact that this situation occurs everywhere
The point is that you don't fix one problem by heaping on additional arbitrary injustice. You are also gradually moving white people from the group that feel non-whites need a better deal, to the group where they feel put upon.I don't think you're really pushing yourself here with this explanation. The reality is that unless you've got $$$, you ARE a second class citizen. While your totally right that it's BS to give a job or university place to a less qualified person based on race/family/creed etc- you're conveniently missing the fact that this situation occurs everywhere, black to white, white to black, latino to black etc etc on forever. In a sense it's the way of the power structure. The person with power, competent or not, gets to decide.
Cherry-picking data is not good science, and I believe that this affirmative action argument is very much cherry-picked data. I think for every instance you can find of whites being treated as second class, you will find exponentially higher amounts of discrimination in regards to almost every other race.
What are "White People"? The all caps seems to imply this is a formal term. A definition would seem necessary.The United States was designed and built for White People, the same way Israel is for Jewish people and Japan is for Japanese people.
Today people are so brain-washed they think there is something wrong with the people who founded a country running it.
The point is that you don't fix one problem by heaping on additional arbitrary injustice. You are also gradually moving white people from the group that feel non-whites need a better deal, to the group where they feel put upon.
Yes, if you are poor, you are a second class citizen. If OJ had not had not been absurdly rich, he would now be behind bars, or maybe dead (and that is true whether he murdered his girlfriend on not!). I'd be in favour of policies that paid a decent wage to people doing a decent job, and I am in favour of President Trump's stated aim of bringing more jobs back to the US. If we (and I include the UK in that to some extent) carry on favouring non-whites, that will increasingly be seen as state-sponsored prejudice, as practised in the old South Africa.
David
your feeling out-of-place anywhere outside of your home town in South Africa
. I could see a collective Human "story" evolving out of all our collective stories, but it's happening too fast.
if you were to return to [wherever your pre-Afrikaner ancestors traveled from] and visited the pre-Christian sites, you would experience what we call "Ancestral Activation" - a feeling of timelessness and belonging which you have only felt before in brief moments of mystical revelation.
When it comes to Paganism
I totally agree, David. I'm so tired of not being able to discuss certain topics because of the fear of hurting feelings.
I'm interested in truth. Whatever that truth may be. Truth can be ugly. It can often reveal things about ourselves, our society or the world at large that we'd rather not be true. But it is what it is. The better equipped we are to deal with reality as it truly is, which means being honest about things, the better chance we have of actually creating societies that truly are beneficial to all. But denying truth, realities, often means we don't discuss major issues, which means they either aren't being dealt with or they aren't being dealt with properly.
I've always said I'd rather someone tell me the truth and risk hurting my feelings than continue on a path that could be detrimental to myself or those around me. How can I improve myself if I'm never made aware that I'm making mistakes? I beg those around me to please tell me when I'm being stupid, so I can change that. Don't just let me go on acting like an idiot! This also means that I have to be honest with myself. I must acknowledge my own limitations, whether those be due to genetics (because genetics are real and have a real effect, even if they aren't the be all, end all to everything), socioeconomic forces or plain old ignorance.
We live in a world that is inherently "unfair". Some are born smart, some are born dumb. Some are born rich, some are born poor. Some are beautiful, some are ugly. I don't know where this notion came from that we could somehow even the score. That we could take away all that makes humanity inherently different, one to another. Moreover, are we sure we would want to do that? I grew up very poor. I was also abused and had a pretty rough childhood. I've made my fair share of mistakes in adulthood and have suffered the consequences of those mistakes. But I blame no one other than myself for the choices I have made. I could have blamed my parents, the circumstances of my birth or the inherent unfairness of life and set myself on a path to self-destruction. But I chose differently. Without making a long post even longer, I'll just say that I'm at a place in life where I'm at peace with it all. IMO, there's a lot of "blame the other" going on right now. And that gets us absolutely nowhere.
My point is, if you believe in the idea that we are here for a reason. That the circumstances under which we were born may not be so random, or even if it is, that it serves some sort of purpose, then are we sure we should even strive to create some sort of Earthly utopia? Would we be missing the whole point of life? Not to say that we shouldn't try to improve ourselves or the situations we find ourselves in, but perhaps the old saying "that which does not kill us, makes us stronger" contains truth.
I think there is a distinct misunderstanding of concepts here, or perhaps the issue is being confused purposefully, it's hard to know these days. But that issue is the concept of differences vs. equality. There is this notion that pointing out differences, no matter how obvious, is somehow implying inferiority/superiority. It's not. I'm a woman. Obviously, not a man. There are many differences between my husband and I that go well beyond culture or personality. I have no problem with this. It blows my mind that some people do.
It seems to me that those that object so ardently to the notion of race are in effect implying inequality where there actually is none. Why object to the reality of race, unless you think it means one is inherently superior to another. Acknowledging the reality of different races does not in any way imply a superior/inferior dynamic. It just simply means there are differences. And in my opinion, different doesn't mean bad, it just means different. And I can appreciate that idea.
Thank God not everyone is like me!
But I can't go any further than that. I'm no victim of the culture wars and do not wish to see my struggle in that light. Especially in regards to so much of the info I've gleaned from Skeptiko
What are "White People"?