Well, we have one group of people working 70 hours a week in order to buy goods that they don't need. Another group is working 70 hours a week to produce them.I agree, If everyone became spiritual, the economy would collapse. It explains a lot.
Well, we have one group of people working 70 hours a week in order to buy goods that they don't need. Another group is working 70 hours a week to produce them.
There must be a way of cutting back, not to zero production/zero consumption, but to some sort of balance.
I just addressed that point extensively and you had precisely nothing of substance to offer in response to it. I mentioned my own behavior as an example because I was confronted with the criticism that no ontology-motivated changes of behavior could change present social realities. I used myself as the example because I think I am somewhat authoritative when it comes to my own behavior and its underlying motivations, not because I consider myself special or fundamentally different than anyone else. Anyone can help bring about change by adjusting one's behavior and patterns of consumption, that being precisely my message. The arrogance you may see in me is at best a projection. I also mentioned specifics, like my phone, because you challenged me to do so, not because I was eager to volunteer this information, as you suggest. I understand it is unpleasant to be out-argued, but your anger is misplaced. Thanks for the exchange thus far, but I am not interested in pursuing it further because I see no more value to be had from it. Neither am I interested in making you overcome your obvious dislike of me.
Well, we have one group of people working 70 hours a week in order to buy goods that they don't need. Another group is working 70 hours a week to produce them.
There must be a way of cutting back, not to zero production/zero consumption, but to some sort of balance.
There is a family owned chain of grocery stores in the area where I live. Last summer they were in the news because the employees went on strike. They went on strike not for higher wages or benefits, but because they wanted to force out a cousin of the family who had taken over control of the company. The previous CEO, a different cousin, had run the company to provide the lowest prices for customers in the area, and the highest wages grocery store workers too. He did this by putting stores in areas where the rents were a little lower and they didn't redecorate as often as the competition. I shop there even though it is the farthest of the three stores near where I live. I bought a bicycle so I could continue to shop there after I got rid of my car. The prices are lowest, and I found out during the strike when I had to shop elsewhere that they have the best trained and most helpful, most polite staff. The new CEO wanted to change things and the first thing he did was to distribute a large one-time dividend to stock holders (family members). The employees were eventually successful and the previous cousin, CEO, was reinstated. I think what this shows is that the owners of companies can have a choice for what their goals are. One goal is to extract as much money as you can from the corporation and from customers, and as much labor as you can from employees, another goal is to create a business to provide a service to customers, jobs for workers, and a sufficient profit for yourself. If more people were more spiritual, maybe more corporations would operate on the latter principle.
Maybe - and I don't meant to make a glib or smug-sounding statement, maybe it's up to each of us to put the heart back in.There is a quote that has always stayed with me, it goes like this.
The Truth is we are caught up in a great economical system which is heartless. - Woodrow.T.Wilson
The problem is not the economics, it's the heartless part.
I don't disagree with you.Well, when you have a culture that validates as intellectually sound the view that matter is all that lasts and, as such, all that really matters, it can't be helpful. When you have a culture that says nothing will be of any significance for you in maximum 100 years, that can't be helpful. When you have a culture that says your life, if looked at frankly and honestly, has no ultimate meaning, that can't be helpful. When you have a culture that says living beings are just moist robots, that can't be helpful.
It's like many societies have entered a new feudal age part II. The worst part about the rampant greed and selfishness is those who have the power and the money, are literally destroying our planetary ecosystem as they worship the almighty dollar. What I found ironic here: is all religions have had their proclamations of doomsday - from Christianity to Hinduism. Yet here we are today, the new religion of nihilistic materialism - and we have yet another predicted doomsday event: climate change. Except this one is actually for real if we continue to rape and plunder the planet at will.Maybe - and I don't meant to make a glib or smug-sounding statement, maybe it's up to each of us to put the heart back in.
thx for this. I never liked the other story.They didn't roll the statues. The statues walked:
good point.I dunno. How many cultures really buy into acquisitive or philosophical materialism? Sure, in affluent societies, people buy and waste more than they need, but do they do that because materialism is a dominant paradigm? Or because within any cultural or religious system, there is the tendency to be focussed on immediate desires? Is it more a question of moral inertia to be overcome than the conscious logic of materialism?
Well, we have one group of people working 70 hours a week in order to buy goods that they don't need. Another group is working 70 hours a week to produce them.
There must be a way of cutting back, not to zero production/zero consumption, but to some sort of balance.
It's like many societies have entered a new feudal age part II. The worst part about the rampant greed and selfishness is those who have the power and the money, are literally destroying our planetary ecosystem as they worship the almighty dollar. What I found ironic here: is all religions have had their proclamations of doomsday - from Christianity to Hinduism. Yet here we are today, the new religion of nihilistic materialism - and we have yet another doomsday event: climate change. Except this one is actually for real if we continue to rape and plunder the planet at will.
My Best,
Bertha
The Vedic idea that we pass through Yugas or time phases is very appealing to me, and I feel I would do it an injustice with a brief explanation, but the gist of it is, creation moves from order to disorder throughout four Yugas, Where the first created civilisations were almost perfect and highly spiritual, And society was very civilised, people recieved special attention to reach their potentials and a government official had to be learned in the science of spiritual self realisation to attain a position, there was very little crime and people live in harmony. then moving through the Yugas, of which there are four, we reach Kali Yuga, the age of quarrel and confusion, where people reject religious principles and the society becomes very materialistic and atheistic. It is supposed to reach a point where people who practice religious principles becomes zero. And that's when there will be complete annihilation and then creation all over again.
Well that's how the story goes, and the Bible tells a similar story about society degenerating at the end of days. and if that is the case, and what's written is written, then maybe any effort to change anything for the better, is in vain.
I afraid I have to disagree, there's plenty information you've offered to dissect, so I will pass at a rebuttal to your whole response. However I will add that there is timeless wisdom in religion that could be a useful framework for life. Calling the Vedic philosophy a myth and simply disregarding the wisdom therein as simply myth, undermines the simple message I was giving, which that it offers a framework in understanding why society becomes more materialistic. It can not be denied that currently the dominant paradigm is materialism and the minority camp is the spiritual view. And it simply predicts this and it seems to be truer and truer. That's all,
I guess I am cherry picking parts and I also don't endorse religion, but what you regard as myth I regard as a framework.
Adopting a religion without understanding the psychological underpinnings is like remembering a dream and only understanding that dream at face value.
Oh wisdom is a she
Who hath ensnared all men.
Have wooed her with elaboration.
Yea, each sure in his own betrothal,
Each pledged with a new kiss,
With a new contact.
How many, many, many
Encradled in her arms have slept
And dreaming, fondled at her brow,
And waked to find that lovering hand
Caressing a cockscomb tipped of bells!
My Best,
Bertha
Sorry, I don't buy this. Well, I should say with due respect of course, I don't wish to cause offence. But in my opinion every age sees correspondences between their own time and the "end of days". How many times have we seen a precise date set for the end of the world, it comes and then passes, and life goes on.Well that's how the story goes, and the Bible tells a similar story about society degenerating at the end of days. and if that is the case, and what's written is written, then maybe any effort to change anything for the better, is in vain.
Sorry, I don't buy this. Well, I should say with due respect of course, I don't wish to cause offence. But in my opinion every age sees correspondences between their own time and the "end of days". How many times have we seen a precise date set for the end of the world, it comes and then passes, and life goes on.
More importantly, the idea that "maybe any effort to change anything for the better, is in vain" I consider a destructive and negative philosophy, it can be used to justify not making any attempt to improve things, or worse. I think we have to look at the world with a positive and optimistic outlook, both on a personal level as well as in the wider society.