Hurmanetar
New
Did we ever find out WTF they're doing here?
Grabbing the world by the Pacific.
Last edited:
Did we ever find out WTF they're doing here?
Aren't even asking the questions you raised contingent on having (affirming) answers to the following?But this raises all sorts of questions for me.
Aren't even asking the questions you raised contingent on having (affirming) answers to the following?
Does this "force" actually exist? Is there evidence for this force? Can it be scientifically observed/tested?
If such a force does exists, is there evidence that powerful, world leaders are using it to "achieve worldly gains, etc."?
Presuming these forces exist and folks can use such forces (e.g., majick, etc.) for good purposes, why is there no broad awareness of such? The hiding in plain sight thing seems hard to square. As was discussed in the telekinesis thread: Wouldn't there be a few folks eager to put their abilities to rigorous scientific testing?
Somehow scientists feel so uncomfortable with such data that they forego the opportunity to write up the discover of the millennium! There could be a lot of phenomena hiding plain sight!Perhaps the most curious aspect of the breatharian tests is the in-your-face nature of the claimed phenomenon and yet an almost complete lack of interest from the scientific community. If it is possible to live well without eating food, this ought to be easy to demonstrate, and if it held up, the scientific and social consequences would be astounding.
One explanation for the startling lack of interest is that most mainstream scientists and medical researchers regard this claim as so unlikely that they don’t want to waste their time with it. Another is that those who studied the phenomenon may have actually discovered positive results, but they know how science reacts to “impossible” claims. So it’s just safer to let positive studies quietly fade away.
A third interpretation is that the Jani and Werner studies actually found nothing out of the ordinary. In that case we might have expected both the Indian and the Swiss hospital teams to be happy to publish their negative findings, because that would only increase their perceived competence in the eyes of the mainstream. But that hasn’t happened either.
Radin, Dean. Supernormal: Science, Yoga, and the Evidence for Extraordinary Psychic Abilities (p. 127).
I hear you. Seems equally reasonable that some scientists would jump at the chance to have their names associated with such paradigm shifting science.Somehow scientists feel so uncomfortable with such data that they forego the opportunity to write up the discover of the millennium! There could be a lot of phenomena hiding plain sight!
I think you miss Dean Radin's point. If the tests were not successful, they would logically have published. After all, one of the tests was performed in an intensive care unit - how much must that have cost?I hear you. Seems equally reasonable that some scientists would jump at the chance to have their names associated with such paradigm shifting science.
Aren't even asking the questions you raised contingent on having (affirming) answers to the following?
Does this "force" actually exist? Is there evidence for this force? Can it be scientifically observed/tested?
If such a force does exists, is there evidence that powerful, world leaders are using it to "achieve worldly gains, etc."?
I understand the point he's attempting to make. However I do not see his three potential explanations as exhaustive.I think you miss Dean Radin's point. If the tests were not successful, they would logically have published. After all, one of the tests was performed in an intensive care unit - how much must that have cost?
The only interpretation seems to be that no fakery was detected, but they didn't want to publish the sensational result!
David
I was responding to Arya.What force are you talking about? Energy? Energy has been proven
Appreciate the response. Thoughtful and rational to my read. Again, much appreciated.
While not directed to you as a response, in general I struggle with the seeming ease with which folks here at Skeptiko look to the conspiratorial. I am, like you, unaware of whether these forces exist, if they do how they are used by others, etc. However, the conspiratorial dark side seems almost a self-sustaining black hole. After all, there are always reasons why evidence isn't available as the conspirators would take great care to cover their tracks, etc. Well, how about the (non-conspiratorial?) light side (if you will).
Presuming these forces exist and folks can use such forces (e.g., majick, etc.) for good purposes, why is there no broad awareness of such? The hiding in plain sight thing seems hard to square. As was discussed in the telekinesis thread: Wouldn't there be a few folks eager to put their abilities to rigorous scientific testing?
...in general I struggle with the seeming ease with which folks here at Skeptiko look to the conspiratorial.
However, the conspiratorial dark side seems almost a self-sustaining black hole.
Presuming these forces exist and folks can use such forces (e.g., majick, etc.) for good purposes, why is there no broad awareness of such?
The hiding in plain sight thing seems hard to square. As was discussed in the telekinesis thread: Wouldn't there be a few folks eager to put their abilities to rigorous scientific testing?
I suppose the question is, who is doing the hand waiving!The general hand wave here where by no scientist is willing to advance science out of fear of ridicule, cessation of funding , etc does not seem to fully explain away things. At least for me. Seems there are too many Mavericks in life to believe there wouldn't be any in science. Again, just my view here
This is true; however, there is hope. The average person can't master enough knowledge or have access to all the information necessary to confirm every conspiracy theory, so people need an "establishment" of agreed to facts about the way the world works in order to stand on something. A lot of people are reeling from the loss of the old establishment and are questioning even basic well-established knowledge. Right now the old hierarchical establishment is being demolished and a new networked crowd-sourced establishment is being built. This new establishment will become the dominant establishment (provided the internet remains free and the lights don't go out). Some of the cornerstones of this new establishment worldview are: 9/11 was to a certain extent a fraud and is a Rosetta Stone to understand the way the world really works, the deep state is real, false flag ops and propaganda are SOP, we live under an international financial tyranny that controls the media and generates wars for profit, and Nihilistic Materialism makes an easily controlled consumer, and religion is an easily controlled opiate to the masses and meth to the radical wind-up terrorists.
I think the frustrating thing (for me) is that the "new establishment" provided in part by the internet has already been intentionally infiltrated and to some extent co-opted, and all of us who are reeling from the loss of the old establishment are struggling to find a new establishment of "agreed to facts in order to stand on something."
You can suspect 9/11 was an inside job and on the other hand you can consider SH to lack sufficient evidence and be a quote unquote conspiracy theory. You seem to be lumping theories together. Not even alternative theory is plausible and the term conspiracy theory is misleadingInteresting dialogue.
The bottom line on these conspiracy theories for me at least is: Who knows?
I do not have first hand knowledge of the events, investigation, and evidence from 9/11 nor SH for example. I have been pointed to conspiracy sites from members of this community. I spent a fair amount of time reading/watching through some of the SH sites. What I found was far from any smoking gun and quite frankly I found the behavior of some of the conspiracy theorists to be shockingly crass.
Perhaps there are better sites to explore; better sources. Here's the rub: I don't see the value in looking. I simply can't get past the impasse of how any conspiracy could conscript an entire community without a single whistleblower emerging. Again, I realize its not an impossible thing, but in my experience it would be an incredibly improbable thing. So, I choose not to put much credence in the claims and when reviewing the conspiracies I see a patchwork job of theories built upon theories. Nothing that would compel me to look further.
So, I remain a "sheep" I guess.