Dr. Rob Williams and Brandon Zollino, Freedom and Unity |557|

[Alex]

What you say has a lot of evidence backing it up of course. And even though I've personally had UFO experiences, I still have to concentrate on logic to reach the conclusion that these ufo beings are manipulating global politics.

I had a very brief but interesting email exchange with robert hastings ( the definitive authority on UFOs in nukes) on this. I detect a subtle but significant shift in his position. 20 years ago he was saying that ET is giving us a wake-up call regarding the nukes. he now seems to be saying the me message may be " it's in our mutual interest." as in, I don't really give a crap what happens to you, but I have a stick and you not blowing up this planet.

this may be much more in line with what you're saying

 

[Hurmanetar]

I had a very brief but interesting email exchange with robert hastings ( the definitive authority on UFOs in nukes) on this. I detect a subtle but significant shift in his position. 20 years ago he was saying that ET is giving us a wake-up call regarding the nukes. he now seems to be saying the me message may be " it's in our mutual interest." as in, I don't really give a crap what happens to you, but I have a stick and you not blowing up this planet.

this may be much more in line with what you're saying

What’s your opinion on Tom Delong’s statements that atmospheric nuke tests knocked some UFOs out of the sky?

 

[Alex]

What’s your opinion on Tom Delong’s statements that atmospheric nuke tests knocked some UFOs out of the sky?

IDK... do you know what evidence he's offering?

The one thing I come back to is the possibility/probability of... multiple species... from multiple places... and maybe even multiple timelines.

what do you think?

 

[Alex]

Furthermore, Farrell's claims that there's a powerful nazi conspiracy to take over the world doesn't have reliable evidence to back it up and there's plenty of evidence that nazis (and nationalists generally) have been manipulated to fight like sacrificial pawns to further the globalist agenda

nice

Then there's Farrell's book 'Babylon's Banksters'. For me it was the last straw. It was a lazy rehashing of a book by another author which Farrell quotes extensively. Farrell's own writing is saturated with spelling and grammatical errors. And there's almost no connection established between bankers in ancient Babylon and bankers in ancient Greece. Actually it's infuriating to read if one has studied the Persian Wars and the Peloponnesian War. Historically it made perfect geopolitical sense for the Persian empire to play Athens off against Sparta after Persia's defeat in Greece. There's no need for bankers from Babylon to explain the historical data. Farrell offers almost no evidence.

great. solid pushback!

So those are some of my impressions of Farrell's work: low level, unreliable and often nonsensical

generally agree. his nazi UFO roswell thing was the straw that broke it for me :)

but I do think he had a couple interesting speculations about 9/11.
Dr. Joseph Farrell on 9/11 And Tesla Directed Energy ... - Dark Journalist
and
Forum Borealis

 

[Hurmanetar]

IDK... do you know what evidence he's offering?

The one thing I come back to is the possibility/probability of... multiple species... from multiple places... and maybe even multiple timelines.

what do you think?

I don’t know that he has evidence… just hearsay from his DOD contacts. So obviously a big grain of salt is in order.

Our first thought might be: with such advanced knowledge and technology how could UFOs and their pilots be defeated by our relatively primitive weapons?

To which I have two possible answers:

1) this assumes ET has lost nothing - no knowledge no ability - on its ascent up the tech tree. This is not the case with us. Does this generation that grew up with GPS and refrigeration know how to read a map and compass or preserve food? Technology provides shorter term power differential in exchange for longer term weakness and loss. Fire and clothes and tools made our bodies significantly weaker than the Apes. And if this trend continues would we eventually look like a pot bellied Gray? Perhaps the Grays and their ilk, despite seemingly god-like powers in some respects forgot how to deal with lower levels of the tech tree?

2) appealing again to the simulation analogy: if you are playing a game… say something like Civilzation or Command and Conquer… you get the most out of the game when you are being challenged and this means you end up with more units at your command than you can fully keep track of and so even though you might be superior to your enemy, you lose a few units by not being able to fully pay attention to the events at every location on the map… so maybe ET parked his saucer where he thought was safely in the middle of nowhere over the pacific in year 1759 and then went to go grab lunch and because of time dilation came back to “the game” to find he lost 6 units in Starfish Prime!

 

[Nelson]

I don’t know that he has evidence… just hearsay from his DOD contacts. So obviously a big grain of salt is in order.

Our first thought might be: with such advanced knowledge and technology how could UFOs and their pilots be defeated by our relatively primitive weapons?

To which I have two possible answers:

1) this assumes ET has lost nothing - no knowledge no ability - on its ascent up the tech tree. This is not the case with us. Does this generation that grew up with GPS and refrigeration know how to read a map and compass or preserve food? Technology provides shorter term power differential in exchange for longer term weakness and loss. Fire and clothes and tools made our bodies significantly weaker than the Apes. And if this trend continues would we eventually look like a pot bellied Gray? Perhaps the Grays and their ilk, despite seemingly god-like powers in some respects forgot how to deal with lower levels of the tech tree?

I agree with you about the influence of technology. I heard that according to Tolkien's private correspondence, the One Ring is meant to represent the machine/technology. It gives the possessor a massive advantage in conquering others, but it's addictive and weakens the user in the longterm

 

[Nelson]

2) appealing again to the simulation analogy: if you are playing a game… say something like Civilzation or Command and Conquer… you get the most out of the game when you are being challenged and this means you end up with more units at your command than you can fully keep track of and so even though you might be superior to your enemy, you lose a few units by not being able to fully pay attention to the events at every location on the map… so maybe ET parked his saucer where he thought was safely in the middle of nowhere over the pacific in year 1759 and then went to go grab lunch and because of time dilation came back to “the game” to find he lost 6 units in Starfish Prime!

According to Bob Lazar, at least one of the UFOs that the U.S. deep state has was from an archaeological dig.

And according to Diana Pasalka, at least some of the craft that have been retrieved are gifts from the aliens.

Maybe all of these are true

 

[Hurmanetar]

I agree with you about the influence of technology. I heard that according to Tolkien's private correspondence, the One Ring is meant to represent the machine/technology. It gives the possessor a massive advantage in conquering others, but it's addictive and weakens the user in the longterm

I did not realize this! Thanks for that info! Makes a lot of sense now...

 

[Alex]

no knowledge no ability - on its ascent up the tech tree.

Nice. you're offering a new twist on my usual go to which is -- we really don't know if there are a hundred years ahead or a hundred thousand years ahead.

so I think what you're saying takes that one step further

 

[Hurmanetar]

Nice. you're offering a new twist on my usual go to which is -- we really don't know if there are a hundred years ahead or a hundred thousand years ahead.

so I think what you're saying takes that one step further

Yes, more tech and more factual knowledge and even greater Psi ability doesn't necessarily equal "more advanced consciousness". Since we have a hard time defining consciousness we also have a hard time defining what is "more advanced" but it is some combination of memories, stacked hierarchical set of feedback loops or sub-personalities with a stable strong willed homunculus firmly seated on top, the ability to manage/control desires related to pleasure/pain, trained neural nets, nuanced understanding of feelings/emotions, broad variety of experiences ranging from heaven to hell and everything in between, and of course the humility to know that knowing everything in a multivariate system such as life is impossible while also having the wit and IQ to recognize and extrapolate patterns quickly. To sum it up... the archetype of the wise old man.

And we have to always recall that destruction/deletion/subtraction is always a part of creation/addition and the distillation of meaningful memory.

So unless ET is actually "god" with instant access to any and all available info and not merely god-like in tech/knowledge/psi relative to us, then we have to ask: what has been subtracted/deleted/destroyed in the process of creating these ET beings? What have they forgotten? What are they blind to? What type of environment/body was their consciousness developed in and how did that limit/shape their form of consciousness? Are they more or less fitting of the archetype of the wise old man?

 

[Nelson]

what has been subtracted/deleted/destroyed in the process of creating these ET beings? What have they forgotten? What are they blind to? What type of environment/body was their consciousness developed in and how did that limit/shape their form of consciousness? Are they more or less fitting of the archetype of the wise old man?

I've also been thinking about this. Richard Dolan made a brilliant video on this, especially on the consequences of complete telepathy, which logically results in the loss of privacy, individuality, and the society becomes totalitarian.

But as I write this, that is assuming that the aliens can't turn the telepathy off and on. If they are compulsively, completely telepathic, then Dolan is correct I think. But maybe at least some of these beings can block telepathy so they can maintain their individuality

 

[Nelson]

 

[Nelson]

Interestingly, in Ardy Sixkiller Clarke's book on American Indian reports of Blue Men, Reptilians, etc., there was at least one report in which the alien communicates to the witness that the aliens are fascinated by humans, because humans are far more creative, because the aliens lost creativity when they became more telepathic and collectivist

 

[Silence]

Were we weakened by the discovery of fire? Of the wheel? Can we at least challenge this notion that technological advancement results in a weakening of the species? I don't see it. Seems it would be at least a lower probability outcome than better overall fitness.

(Its not like native tribes using 1,000 year old weapons of war suddenly had success because the modern armies were comprised of weaklings. We've never seen what's being suggested)

 

[Nelson]

Were we weakened by the discovery of fire? Of the wheel? Can we at least challenge this notion that technological advancement results in a weakening of the species? I don't see it. Seems it would be at least a lower probability outcome than better overall fitness.

(Its not like native tribes using 1,000 year old weapons of war suddenly had success because the modern armies were comprised of weaklings. We've never seen what's being suggested)

We are talking about a weakening in terms of average physical strength, speed, stature and intelligence, from the Paleolithic till now. Not results in warfare

http://www.ditext.com/diamond/mistake.html

 

[J Randall Murphy]

We are talking about a weakening in terms of average physical strength, speed, stature and intelligence, from the Paleolithic till now. Not results in warfare

http://www.ditext.com/diamond/mistake.html

Intelligence isn't something that can be reliably extrapolated from cranial size alone, so I wouldn't be so sure about that variable. The debate is between those who say that size alone matters, versus those who say it has to do with efficiency and how much brain matter is allocated to specific functions — some of which have to do with intelligence — some of which don't. Whales have bigger brains than humans, But are they actually more intelligent?

Are Whales Smarter Than We Are?

 

[J Randall Murphy]

What’s your opinion on Tom Delong’s statements that atmospheric nuke tests knocked some UFOs out of the sky?

All too often skeptical counterpoint is overlooked or offhandedly dismissed by ufo enthusiasts. I don't do that. When I see a claim, the first thing I do is look to see if anyone has debunked it. Then I look at any counterpoint to that, and so on back and forth, until I arrive at the most reasonable perspective. I don't think Delong, or even many established ufologists bother to go to these lengths. On the UFOs and nukes issue, I'd suggest you start sifting through this:

UFOs at Nuclear Weapons Sites (Salas, Malmstrom, Eagle Flight) - Skeptical Resources

 

[Nelson]

Intelligence isn't something that can be reliably extrapolated from cranial size alone, so I wouldn't be so sure about that variable. The debate is between those who say that size alone matters, versus those who say it has to do with efficiency and how much brain matter is allocated to specific functions — some of which have to do with intelligence — some of which don't. Whales have bigger brains than humans, But are they actually more intelligent?

Are Whales Smarter Than We Are?

I thought someone would use that example. But let's compare within a species:

There have been allegations going back and forth about corruption in anthropology regarding records of cranial sizes of humans. It's a super controversial subject. But what I do notice is people with larger heads are typically more intelligent. And cromagnons did on average have larger heads than modern humans. Maybe there was a development towards more compact brains while maintaining or even increasing intelligence.

I don't know. The field of anthropology is so politicised that it's difficult to come to an informed decision. I see your point though. So I conceed that the average lowering of intelligence since the Paleolithic is only speculative

 

[Robbedigital]

I thought someone would use that example. But let's compare within a species:

There have been allegations going back and forth about corruption in anthropology regarding records of cranial sizes of humans. It's a super controversial subject. But what I do notice is people with larger heads are typically more intelligent. And cromagnons did on average have larger heads than modern humans. Maybe there was a development towards more compact brains while maintaining or even increasing intelligence.

I don't know. The field of anthropology is so politicised that it's difficult to come to an informed decision. I see your point though. So I conceed that the average lowering of intelligence since the Paleolithic is only speculative

Which would you say is more intelligent:
-German Shepard
-Ancestor Wolf
I can tell you which one survives if the humans die out.

Hurmaneater would jump in here and point out this value placement is highly contingent on the goal.

If the goal is to seed planets throughout the galaxy, the German Shepard wins.

I used dogs as an example because we know they don’t care about seeding the galaxy.

 

[Alex]

Brilliant!

Yes, more tech and more factual knowledge and even greater Psi ability doesn't necessarily equal "more advanced consciousness". Since we have a hard time defining consciousness we also have a hard time defining what is "more advanced" but it is some combination of memories, stacked hierarchical set of feedback loops or sub-personalities with a stable strong willed homunculus firmly seated on top, the ability to manage/control desires related to pleasure/pain, trained neural nets, nuanced understanding of feelings/emotions, broad variety of experiences ranging from heaven to hell and everything in between, and of course the humility to know that knowing everything in a multivariate system such as life is impossible while also having the wit and IQ to recognize and extrapolate patterns quickly. To sum it up... the archetype of the wise old man.

awesome points!

And we have to always recall that destruction/deletion/subtraction is always a part of creation/addition and the distillation of meaningful memory.

I get it but what exactly do you mean by distillation of meaningful memory.

So unless ET is actually "god" with instant access to any and all available info and not merely god-like in tech/knowledge/psi relative to us,

Great. this makes clear the distinction... and I don't even think we have to go so far as to say "god-like". in fact, that may be another subtle transhumanism talking point forcing itself into the conversation. I mean, does anyone really think ET is god?

then we have to ask: what has been subtracted/deleted/destroyed in the process of creating these ET beings? What have they forgotten? What are they blind to? What type of environment/body was their consciousness developed in and how did that limit/shape their form of consciousness? Are they more or less fitting of the archetype of the wise old man?

great stuff!

What does ET see/ experience in his/her nde?