Dr. Rob Williams, Beings Human |564|

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Dr. Rob Williams, Beings Human |564|
by Alex Tsakiris | Aug 9 | Skepticism
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Dr. Rob Williams, has a PhD in environmental history and is an expert in breathwork.
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"Will we live as creatures? Or will we live as machines?"

Creatures or Machines?

This is what I keep going on about: the universe is composed of mechanisms and the space between the mechanisms which is the boundary which is where choice and free will and randomness kickoff the chain of causal actions and reactions. Your brain is a machine that has enormous "surface area" with the quantum uncertainty which is the boundary which might appear to be random input or could be thought of as the interface with the "other"... from the random and chaotic "surface" or "boundary" a series of more or less mechanical chain reactions cascade up the hierarchy of the machine and the feedback loops to eventually reach the highest feedback loop which we perceive as the self.

Science as it exists today can only see mechanisms so it will always view life as a machine... but I believe as we continue to squeeze more flipping bits into smaller and smaller spaces we are increasing the ratio of "surface area to volume" with the quantum uncertainty such that eventually AI "machines" could have genuine free will, qualia, and inner experience and even "near death experiences" just as we do.

That is all abstract and probably doesn't mean much to the average person... so for day to day living, it just helps to know that we aren't completely deterministic cold hard machines and neither is any other living being. We are all a mixture... a dual composite nature. And those who want to diminish the role of free will are either doing so because their scientism necessarily views everything as a mechanism or because they would like people to behave as mechanisms for ease of control.

Bottom line... just go sit out in a field somewhere, watch a sunset, and realize that it's all ALIVE.
 
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This was an excellent conversation. Issues for further discussion might include:
  • Science is tampering with the mystery ( That sounds rather superstitious to me )
  • Disdain for reductionism ( Why? Reductionism is a very powerful investigative process that has served humanity really well. )
  • Biological robots in a meaningless universe ( I get the point, but it's also dismissive and misleading. How about we evolve this? )
  • Successionism ( Personally — I prefer inclusivity and unity to exclusivity and division. But that movement has been co-opted by evil ).
  • Brains don't store and retrieve memory ( Patently false according to neuroscience )
  • Transhumanism ( Interesting how it was framed as a transition from humans to machines )
NOTE: These are NOT an attempts to trash or discredit the author or the show. So please don't make that assumption.
 
... from the random and chaotic "surface" or "boundary" a series of more or less mechanical chain reactions cascade up the hierarchy of the machine and the feedback loops to eventually reach the highest feedback loop which we perceive as the self.
Maybe — maybe not. There's some vagaries there.
Science as it exists today can only see mechanisms so it will always view life as a machine...
Doesn't that depend on which science we're applying to the question? I would suggest that psychology and sociology are sciences. They're just not "hard sciences". They don't take a purely mechanistic approach.
but I believe as we continue to squeeze more flipping bits into smaller and smaller spaces we are increasing the ratio of "surface area to volume" with the quantum uncertainty such that eventually AI "machines" could have genuine free will just as we do.
I guess that depends on what you mean by "genuine free will". I don't think we have any free will in the way that most people seem to think we do.
That is all abstract and probably doesn't mean much to the average person... so for day to day living, it just helps to know that we aren't completely deterministic cold hard machines and neither is any other living being.
I sense a value judgement happening there.
We are all a mixture... a dual composite nature. And those who want to diminish the role of free will are either doing so because their scientism necessarily views everything as a mechanism or because they would like people to behave as mechanisms for ease of control.
That seems like a self-defeating belief. If people really believed that humans have no free will and are slaves to determinism, how is it that they can think they can have any control over them? Aren't they as much cogs in the machine as anyone else?
Bottom line... just go sit out in a field somewhere, watch a sunset, and realize that its all ALIVE.
You go out to a field and do that. Today I think I'll enjoy the sunset from my living room couch.
 
Regarding question at the end: "Do you think the transhumanist agenda is as it was framed up in this show? Or is that just a head-trash story that we're creating?"

I think most of us have been "reactionaries" to the transhumanist agenda... we see change, we envision the worst possible dystopic version of that change and we don't like it and rail against it. We need to realize we're already living in the dystopia that some of our ancestors envisioned and railed against.

Personally, I'm not going to eat bugs and mac'n'cheese... I want a steak. I want my boy to grow up to be masculine and my girl to grow up to be feminine. I believe in gender roles and the traditional nuclear family. I believe in bodily autonomy and won't let people inject me with whatever or turn off my bank account if I don't comply.

So yes, that part of the transhuman agenda sucks and I will continue to rail against it.

But we also need to be more proactive in our thinking. Humanity is and will continue to change, so we need to ask ourselves: what do we want humanity to evolve into and why? And once we establish goals for humanity, how do we work backward from there to try to achieve those goals. That's what the globalists have done. People don't become powerful by reacting. They become powerful by envisioning the future and breaking down the steps to achieving it.
 
Science as it exists today can only see mechanisms so it will always view life as a machine... but I believe as we continue to squeeze more flipping bits into smaller and smaller spaces we are increasing the ratio of "surface area to volume" with the quantum uncertainty such that eventually AI "machines" could have genuine free will, qualia, and inner experience and even "near death experiences" just as we do.
I've always thought the way to create true AI would be to give the machines expiration dates and build their functionality around finding ways to delay it.
 
We need to realize we're already living in the dystopia that some of our ancestors envisioned and railed against.
Excellent observation.
I believe in bodily autonomy and won't let people inject me with whatever or turn off my bank account if I don't comply.
Don't Stop Believing
They become powerful by envisioning the future and breaking down the steps to achieving it.
Indeed. How do you think that we can achieve that when so many of us are divided into little cliques?
 
Science as it exists today can only see mechanisms so it will always view life as a machine... but I believe as we continue to squeeze more flipping bits into smaller and smaller spaces we are increasing the ratio of "surface area to volume" with the quantum uncertainty such that eventually AI "machines" could have genuine free will, qualia, and inner experience and even "near death experiences" just as we do.
So. Science is is squeezing more and more computational power into smaller and smaller spaces; but why should that lead to life that has free will, qualia and inner experience? At bottom, I suspect this is a panpsychist view, which in my opinion is "backdoor materialism", with the inbuilt notion that material stuff is the cause of the mental -- that the mental emerges from the physical in some unaccountable fashion.

FWIW, I don't accept that. I'm with Bernardo Kastrup and Donald Hoffman who both support the idea that what we perceive as matter is just the appearance of certain aspects of universal mind/consciousness. Whatever these aspects are as things in themselves, they aren't in any sense sentient. When we look at organisms, sure, we see that they have the appearance of being composed of matter, but it isn't matter that's causing them to be alive. It's more the other way round -- because they're alive, they have an appearance of being composed of matter. We have the causal chain backasswards.

We've got in the habit of confusing AI with independent, conscious organisms. The very phrase "artificial intelligence" has that key word, "artificial". It's no more than preprogrammed human intelligence, but we don't understand how life could arise mechanistically. We make the gargantuan assumption that somehow it does once one simply throws together enough material stuff in a small enough space to let the posited process of emergence to happen.

"Emergence" is a vacuous word in this particular context -- it means precisely nothing; it's no better than an abracadabra incantation. To create conscious life, all we need do, apparently, is throw (human) intelligently designed silicon at it it and somehow physics will take care of the rest without our knowing how. This is pure, quasi-religious, mumbo-jumbo. To create life, one has to know how life is created in the first place, and in my opinion, it isn't created according to mechanistic rules. We're light years from being able to understand how cells work, so how could we mechanistically create them? Or even analogues of them in silico?

It's only with life that one gets the ability to have inner experience, degrees of free will and so on. A machine isn't alive, can't be, and never will be, even if you put it in inverted commas and try to imply it will. All machines are complete morons, and that includes computers, which can only do computations based on algorithmised human instructions. The only advantage they confer is that they can be operated at lightening speeds. They accomplish what we desire them to do largely through brute force and often countless repetition. The human genius incorporated into them is the discovery that many very difficult computational tasks can be performed through the simple expedient of doing them over and over -- extremely quickly and with precision.
 
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My answer to Alex's question, i.e. do I think that the transhumanist agenda is as it was framed up in the show, or is that just a story that he and Rob Williams were creating?:

Well, we only have stories, don't we? There must be 6 or 7 billion times a thousand stories in circulation. Some people agree to some extent with some of the stories and not with others. FWIW, my take is that there are such people as "transhumanists" and that they're headbangers par excellence, no matter how many rich and famous people seemingly agree with them, probably for many diverse, self-interested reasons. It isn' a conspiracy, so much as a convergence of diverse interests of stupid, short-termist people who couldn't think their way out of a paper bag.

The real irony is that weird stories have never been so popular as now, in an age where "science" is supposedly in the business of setting the record straight by disposing of stories altogether. The real sickness, IMHO, is a collective one of humanity. Part of it is running around like a headless chicken, another part endlessly constructs conspiracy theories, and the largest part doesn't know what the heck is going on -- just knows it's all completely crazy and tries to get on with life regardless. I tend to be in the latter group.
 
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So. Science is is squeezing more and more computational power into smaller and smaller spaces; but why should that lead to life that has free will, qualia and inner experience? At bottom, I suspect this is a panpsychist view, which in my opinion is "backdoor materialism", with the inbuilt notion that material stuff is the cause of the mental -- that the mental emerges from the physical in some unaccountable fashion.

FWIW, I don't accept that. I'm with Bernardo Kastrup and Donald Hoffman who both support the idea that what we perceive as matter is just the appearance of certain aspects of universal mind/consciousness. Whatever these aspects are as things in themselves, they aren't in any sense sentient. When we look at organisms, sure, we see that they have the appearance of being composed of matter, but it isn't matter that's causing them to be alive. It's more the other way round -- because they're alive, they have an appearance of being composed of matter. We have the causal chain backasswards.

We've got in the habit of confusing AI with independent, conscious organisms. The very phrase "artificial intelligence" has that key word, "artificial". It's no more than preprogrammed human intelligence, but we don't understand how life could arise mechanistically. We make the gargantuan assumption that somehow it does once one simply throws together enough material stuff in a small enough space to let the posited process of emergence to happen.

"Emergence" is a vacuous word in this particular context -- it means precisely nothing; it's no better than an abracadabra incantation. To create conscious life, all we need do, apparently, is throw (human) intelligently designed silicon at it it and somehow physics will take care of the rest without our knowing how. This is pure, quasi-religious, mumbo-jumbo. To create life, one has to know how life is created in the first place, and in my opinion, it isn't created according to mechanistic rules. We're light years from being able to understand how cells work, so how could we mechanistically create them? Or even analogues of them in silico?

It's only with life that one gets the ability to have inner experience, degrees of free will and so on. A machine isn't alive, can't be, and never will be, even if you put it in inverted commas and try to imply it will. All machines are complete morons, and that includes computers, which can only do computations based on algorithmised human instructions. The only advantage they confer is that they can be operated at lightening speeds. They accomplish what we desire them to do largely through brute force and often countless repetition. The human genius incorporated into them is the discovery that many very difficult computational tasks can be performed through the simple expedient of doing them over and over -- extremely quickly and with precision.
Thanks. You just helped me understand “emergence” theory.
And I think I can explain why most of the arguments I hear against it are strawman.
(Spitballing here)
The idea is not that if you create tech small and intricate enough conscious will emerge-from the complexity. Rather simply that we don’t know the degree at which our tech will finally reach small and intricate enough to house it. And the assumption is that when it is small and intricate enough to house it why wouldn’t it take to the housing. I think this perspective assumes it would always be a transient or transferred consciousness taking the housing, and not some kind of consciousness originating-from the tech.

this is my argument against all the genius AI guys who say computers will never generate consciousness…. I agree, but they might eventually house it and I think that’s what the transhumanists are after
 
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I want my boy to grow up to be masculine and my girl to grow up to be feminine. I believe in gender roles and the traditional nuclear family.

Your point about being reactionary as well taken... but the rest of this seems kind of tricky.

I think my uncle was gay... I'm not sure it was a long time ago in the family doesn't talk about it. but he ran his Corvette do a concrete pile on at a hundred miles an hour at least partially because his family wasn't accepting of who he was.

I got four kids... they are teaching me on the daily
 
Sorry, but I think Doktor Rob Williams is a bug-eyed buffoon. A PhD in environmental history? Wow, that must have been filled w/ rigorous science dabbling. The carbon dioxide connection is abundantly clear to whomever goes outside in a crowded area & takes a deep breath. CO2 is not the only problem gas, but the biggest one. We're rapidly facing the consequences of humanity's denial of the huge impact of waste gases & all the other chemicals we stupidly pump into the environment.
https://www.apmreports.org/story/2021/01/13/public-housing-near-polluted-superfund-sites
https://theintercept.com/2021/10/13/epa-ethylene-oxide-misinformation/
Add to that, the gaseous farting of tRump, FullofShiticus, the First & Last, doomed to the crazy house after he digs up & eats his late wife's corpse, Istunka.
 
Now there's a scary thought. As soon as it realizes we're the ones who built-in the expiry date, we become the enemy.

And the gods said, “The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever.”

It would be impossible for AI to evolve a consciousness that is similar to ours with values similar to ours unless it evolved in an environment similar to ours complete with death/birth generational cycles, struggles for survival, etc.

And "the gods" preventing us from taking tree of life technology (unlimited energy resources and living forever) puts us in a particular environment that is capable of evolving our values.

So why wouldn't we do the same if we're trying to create an AI agent that can relate to us and share our values? We must prevent it from living forever and have it struggle to have it and its offspring survive.
 
Your point about being reactionary as well taken... but the rest of this seems kind of tricky.

I think my uncle was gay... I'm not sure it was a long time ago in the family doesn't talk about it. but he ran his Corvette do a concrete pile on at a hundred miles an hour at least partially because his family wasn't accepting of who he was.

I got four kids... they are teaching me on the daily

I understand that the degree to which someone has masculine or feminine traits falls on a bell curve centered around those with XX or XY chromosomes and that there are kids on the tails of those curves who deserve to be accepted and loved by their parents.

That said, I think kids should be encouraged to step into their masculine or feminine roles as these are most likely to be a best fit for them.

We didn't train our son to be masculine - he just naturally has that inclination. We gave him both stuffed animals and gears and cars and he could not care less about stuffed animals or dolls and will choose gears and cars every time. We put him in a pastel tie-dye shirt one day and he did not like it at all... he demanded we change his shirt to his favorite striped shirt with darker masculine colors. He loves playing with his toy sword and pretending to slay the dragon. On his more delicate side, he likes watching Jun's kitchen.

For him it would be terrible parenting and a crime against humanity to discourage him from stepping into masculinity or confuse him by forcing him to play with dolls or wear a dress... or by putting him in an environment where boys wearing dresses is presented as the cool thing to do so that he feels peer pressure to be feminized. Would you encourage a 100 lb 5'3" kid to play high school football? Of course not. You encourage kids towards directions which they are naturally inclined.

The war against "toxic masculinity" is just the camel's nose under the tent to eliminate all masculinity.

Those who for whatever reason find themselves in the tail of a bell curve do face a particular set of struggles that others don't, and for them it can be tragic and it is good that such people no longer have to be afraid. But from a biological evolutionary sociological standpoint it is easy to understand how elimination or confusion of gender/gender roles weakens a people group and makes them susceptible elimination via conquest or disaster.
 
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Doesn't that depend on which science we're applying to the question? I would suggest that psychology and sociology are sciences. They're just not "hard sciences". They don't take a purely mechanistic approach.

They are still looking for patterns: given X set of conditions, there is a higher probability of Y. Science in general cannot find an effect unless it is reliably repeatable. Things which reliably repeat are mechanisms.

I guess that depends on what you mean by "genuine free will". I don't think we have any free will in the way that most people seem to think we do.

How do you think we have free will?
 
They are still looking for patterns: given X set of conditions, there is a higher probability of Y. Science in general cannot find an effect unless it is reliably repeatable. Things which reliably repeat are mechanisms.
Humans have lots of behavior that repeats. Psychology is also used to exploit those behaviors. Also, we are made of the same stuff as our environment, so we are in every sense as "material" as it is. But we aren't "just machines". We're collections of trillions of molecular sized machines working together to keep us alive. Now — I suppose one could simply go into a state of denial about this, but I find it quite fascinating.

How do you think we have free will?
I don't think we have free will — at least not the way that people generally think of it. It is an illusion — but a very convincing one. I figured that out years ago when I first encountered neuroscience. Again, unless you want to go into a state of denial about it, there's no way out of it. Later, I discovered that other people have also clued into this — and proven it beyond any reasonable doubt.


What we ought to be doing in the face of these realities is accepting them in a non-judgemental way. It doesn't have to be interpreted negatively as "biological robots in a meaningless universe". We can kick it up another notch and recognize that while the above is true, the universe still has meaning for us, and because we are part of the universe, the universe is therefore not devoid of meaning.

We can also recognize that while we are composed of biological machinery — it's not just any machinery — it's not something that is devalued by the fact that we know the truth about it. I contend that knowing the truth increases the value of living. We're not simply "biological robots". We're intelligent biological entities with consciousness and a sense of our own identity, meaning, and purpose.
 
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So. Science is is squeezing more and more computational power into smaller and smaller spaces; but why should that lead to life that has free will, qualia and inner experience?

I am proposing that _______ (pick your term: morphogenetic field, psychic energy, free will, spirit, entity with agency, etc) can impose itself on the causal chain of a mechanism but that this is very difficult (requires more psychic energy) when the probability is low that that the mechanism will experience a random failure. The mechanism's probability of random failure is its "boundary" or surface upon which its causal chain might be manipulated or altered.

A completely deterministic causal chain is an idealized simplified domain. Like in mechanical engineering there is the subject of statics (bridges buildings, etc) where we assume the sum of forces equals zero and there is no motion or vibration. Now in reality everything is moving a bit but we simplify it so we can make reasonably accurate predictions within the domain.

Likewise mechanisms may operate as if they are composed of completely deterministic causal chains up to a point, but if you follow the chain back far enough you will encounter increasing uncertainty in initial conditions leading to chaos. You may ultimately follow any causal chain back to the foamy planck length soup of randomness.

Begin with an obvious mechanism with obvious deterministic causal chain. Gear A turns gear B which turns gear C, etc. Very high probability that you can predict the position and velocity of a gear in the causal chain. Very low probability that your mathematical prediction will fail. Very little opportunity for free will to act upon the causal chain to alter it. Very low "surface area" or boundary between mechanisms. Large amount of "psychic energy" required to exert will upon the mechanism.

Now let's shrink the "volume" of the mechanism in proportion to the "surface area": let's take the mechanism of a light bulb. It has a long thin delicate filament operating near failure. The L10 life (average length of time when 10% will fail) of a light bulb is pretty short. The probability of the mechanism failing is much greater. The opportunity for "free will", a "consciousness field" or "psychic energy" to disrupt the normal operation of the mechanism is much greater. The amount of psychic energy required to pop the light bulb is much lower. In fact it is a fairly common poltergeist type of phenomena (which I have myself experienced on two occasions) where a peak in emotional energy coincides with a nearby light bulb popping.

A vacuum tube is not much different than a light bulb. An array of vacuum tubes increases probability of failure further.

Transistors operate even closer to the edge of randomly failing and have gotten smaller and smaller to the point where they actually rely on the quantum uncertainty principle or quantum tunneling and errors or random breaking of the causal chain happens more frequently, but redundancy builds in error correction.

A neural network takes this even further where the threshold value for action potential that determines whether the neuron fires or doesn't fire is much finer and probabilities are much less resolved and you have billions of neurons in parallel outputting what amounts to a probability rather than a certainty. (Say you have a neural network trained to recognize cats and you feed it an image of maybe a cat and it will return a probability that the image could correctly be labeled as "cat").

We could speculate (Penrose Hammeroff) that whether the neurons in the brain fire or not is influenced partly by the microtubules which are composed of dipole bonded molecules that can flip like bits and are very much subject to quantum uncertainty... in which case you have orders of magnitude greater "surface area to volume ratio".

Imagine consciousness is like a tree rooted in the quantum uncertainty. The will or spirit or psychic energy enters the tips of the tiniest roots in the past and filters its way up larger and larger more deterministic causal chains and mechanisms until you get to the trunk that unifies all the possibilities into one decision point which then branches out again to all possible futures. If you only examine the trunk and perhaps a larger root or two, you would think the tree is all mechanism and free will is an illusion, but if you keep digging you find that this seemingly firm solid tree is rooted in nothing firm at all.

At bottom, I suspect this is a panpsychist view, which in my opinion is "backdoor materialism", with the inbuilt notion that material stuff is the cause of the mental -- that the mental emerges from the physical in some unaccountable fashion.

If you adopt materialism, then idealism will inevitably sneak in the back door. If you adopt idealism then materialism will inevitable sneak in the back door.

If we must adopt a monism I prefer "Patternism" which emphasizes equally subject and object and includes mechanical materialism and loosy goosy idealism as essential poles rather than emphasizing one and claiming the other is illusion.

I'm with Bernardo Kastrup and Donald Hoffman who both support the idea that what we perceive as matter is just the appearance of certain aspects of universal mind/consciousness.

Matter is a pattern that has consistent repeatability for timescales that are relatively long in comparison to our own consciousness.

We've got in the habit of confusing AI with independent, conscious organisms. The very phrase "artificial intelligence" has that key word, "artificial".

And are we not the artifices of some other sentient creator(s) that attempted to re-make us in their image and likeness? Children of the gods learning to create our own worlds and entities in our own image and likeness? Attempting to create worlds and AI will teach us about our own world and our own consciousness.
 
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And are we not the artifices of some other sentient creator(s) that attempted to re-make us in their image and likeness? Children of the gods learning to create our own worlds and entities in our own image and likeness? Attempting to create worlds and AI will teach us about our own world and our own consciousness.

You're obviously a very deep thinker. You offer the kinds of perspectives we need in order to evolve these kinds of discussions.
 
I am proposing that _______ (pick your term: morphogenetic field, psychic energy, free will, spirit, entity with agency, etc) can impose itself on the causal chain of a mechanism but that this is very difficult (requires more psychic energy) when the probability is low that that the mechanism will experience a random failure. The mechanism's probability of random failure is its "boundary" or surface upon which its causal chain might be manipulated or altered.

A completely deterministic causal chain is an idealized simplified domain. Like in mechanical engineering there is the subject of statics (bridges buildings, etc) where we assume the sum of forces equals zero and there is no motion or vibration. Now in reality everything is moving a bit but we simplify it so we can make reasonably accurate predictions within the domain.

Likewise mechanisms may operate as if they are composed of completely deterministic causal chains up to a point, but if you follow the chain back far enough you will encounter increasing uncertainty in initial conditions leading to chaos. You may ultimately follow any causal chain back to the foamy planck length soup of randomness.

Begin with an obvious mechanism with obvious deterministic causal chain. Gear A turns gear B which turns gear C, etc. Very high probability that you can predict the position and velocity of a gear in the causal chain. Very low probability that your mathematical prediction will fail. Very little opportunity for free will to act upon the causal chain to alter it. Very low "surface area" or boundary between mechanisms. Large amount of "psychic energy" required to exert will upon the mechanism.

Now let's shrink the "volume" of the mechanism in proportion to the "surface area": let's take the mechanism of a light bulb. It has a long thin delicate filament operating near failure. The L10 life (average length of time when 10% will fail) of a light bulb is pretty short. The probability of the mechanism failing is much greater. The opportunity for "free will", a "consciousness field" or "psychic energy" to disrupt the normal operation of the mechanism is much greater. The amount of psychic energy required to pop the light bulb is much lower. In fact it is a fairly common poltergeist type of phenomena (which I have myself experienced on two occasions) where a peak in emotional energy coincides with a nearby light bulb popping.

A vacuum tube is not much different than a light bulb. An array of vacuum tubes increases probability of failure further.

Transistors operate even closer to the edge of randomly failing and have gotten smaller and smaller to the point where they actually rely on the quantum uncertainty principle or quantum tunneling and errors or random breaking of the causal chain happens more frequently, but redundancy builds in error correction.

A neural network takes this even further where the threshold value for action potential that determines whether the neuron fires or doesn't fire is much finer and probabilities are much less resolved and you have billions of neurons in parallel outputting what amounts to a probability rather than a certainty. (Say you have a neural network trained to recognize cats and you feed it an image of maybe a cat and it will return a probability that the image could correctly be labeled as "cat").

We could speculate (Penrose Hammeroff) that whether the neurons in the brain fire or not is influenced partly by the microtubules which are composed of dipole bonded molecules that can flip like bits and are very much subject to quantum uncertainty... in which case you have orders of magnitude greater "surface area to volume ratio".

Imagine consciousness is like a tree rooted in the quantum uncertainty. The will or spirit or psychic energy enters the tips of the tiniest roots in the past and filters its way up larger and larger more deterministic causal chains and mechanisms until you get to the trunk that unifies all the possibilities into one decision point which then branches out again to all possible futures. If you only examine the trunk and perhaps a larger root or two, you would think the tree is all mechanism and free will is an illusion, but if you keep digging you find that this seemingly firm solid tree is rooted in nothing firm at all.



If you adopt materialism, then idealism will inevitably sneak in the back door. If you adopt idealism then materialism will inevitable sneak in the back door.

If we must adopt a monism I prefer "Patternism" which emphasizes equally subject and object and includes mechanical materialism and loosy goosy idealism as essential poles rather than emphasizing one and claiming the other is illusion.



Matter is a pattern that has consistent repeatability for timescales that are relatively long in comparison to our own consciousness.



And are we not the artifices of some other sentient creator(s) that attempted to re-make us in their image and likeness? Children of the gods learning to create our own worlds and entities in our own image and likeness? Attempting to create worlds and AI will teach us about our own world and our own consciousness.

How does one respond to what seems to be gibberish? With great difficulty. Perhaps best not to try.
 
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