Forum Borealis: Alex “Skeptiko” Tsakiris - EVIL (Pt. 1 of 2: A Rose by any other Name)

Alex

Administrator
#1
I love the way this came out... then again, Al is an absolute master at what he does:

Alex “Skeptiko” Tsakiris - EVIL (Pt. 1 of 2: A Rose by any other Name)
Mar 31st, 2021 by ForumBorealis


It's the oldest problem in the world, but how is it that all recognize evil when experienced, yet we can't agree what it is? Do metaphysical entities influence men? Do NDE show hell? Did MK-ULTRA discover split ego-states incite possession? Are there evil aliens? Is ethics universal? Are all conscious beings of the Light? Do anyone think of themselves as evil? How to fight it? Is it a specter, a force, subjective or natural, relative or constant? Did Ancients have a concept of it? How did Buddha explain it? Is it a choice? Was Ted Bundy mind controlled? Are Archons neutral? Is Satan an egregore? These are just some points raised in pt. 1. AND: hear Al's childhood exorcism...
 
#2
36 minutes into this episode of Forum Borealis. Took a break to do some thinking work some stuff out.
I'm enjoying the process of reading the book, this forum, and battling with the definition of evil, and with the why it matters.
I do think the definition is imperative to understand because good luck making common ground with someone on why evil matters without somehow navigating to a common ground on what evil is.

Borealis used one of the cookie cutter approaches with the angle that 'Hitler thinks Stalin is evil, and vice versa..'
I want to argue, but it's too big a problem for my brain at this level. Who can say who the good guys are really on that scale?


A working attempt at the Why:
Evil matters because as egocentric beings don't have the ability quantify the value of beings. Therefore, the closest egocentric beings can come to dealing fairly is to attribute the assumption of equality.

Perhaps Evil is simply the elevation of ones own value above that of others.

The ultimate what-about would be: What about man who has found the illusive "one true religion". He is capable of executing the highest evil-act to good-intention ratio, because he can convince himself that he knows what is best on an eternal scale.
Perhaps the Earth game isn't worth playing when some of the players get to play God. Maybe that's just what the Crowelypoley's are after.

After bingeing about 40-50 NDE stories within the last month, I'm comfortable saying the majority of NDE'ers visit a place where they are relieved of egocentricity to great degree.

Bible Jesus said the two most important commandments are:
1. Love God with all your heart might mind and strength.

Perhaps to find common ground with intellectual enemies we could substitute the "god" with a conglomeration of all the essences, natures, and qualities reported about most-commonly-reported NDE Realm.. It's all lot wordier than just saying "God" but it might be a worthy substitute that could act as a bridge between two people with different conceptions of evil, or two people who do not value each other equally.


2. Love thy neighbor as thy self

Value beings equally.
 
#4
I do think the definition is imperative to understand because good luck making common ground with someone on why evil matters without somehow navigating to a common ground on what evil is.
I'm not sure. We had a lot of discussions about consciousness where materialists would say, "you need to define consciousness before you can talk about it".

That sounds almost inarguable, but in practice the materialists would come up with something that made consciousness sound like a control program in a robot!

Given that evil must be related to consciousness, I guess the same probably applies to evil.

David
 
#6
That would mean that actions like winning an argument - say about which movie to watch - would be an act of micro-evil!

David
By " elevation of ones own value above that of others" I meant a general/overall value.
So your example would make sense if the person was acting as if "We're gonna watch the movie I want to watch because your enjoyment has less intrinsic meaning than mine."

So, yes, it's a micro-example of evil. But we all devalue everyone else in our lives, and our job as loving beings is to avoid it as much as possible.

(Edit: IF...) I'm right, evil is intrinsic to humanity, and is simply a measurement of the act of imposing lower-than-me valuation upon others.
And it probably works like: the lower the value, the more obvious/significant the evil, especially when it's represented by actions.
 
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#7
I'm not sure. We had a lot of discussions about consciousness where materialists would say, "you need to define consciousness before you can talk about it".

That sounds almost inarguable, but in practice the materialists would come up with something that made consciousness sound like a control program in a robot!

Given that evil must be related to consciousness, I guess the same probably applies to evil.

David

IMO Consciousness is only a problem because some people think it's one thing, and others think it's multiple. Here's my take:

Emergent Consciousness - A cognitive reflection of my own experience
Higher Consciousness - The belief that I have a non-physical self that is involved in my life some times and to various degrees.
Universal Consciousness - (MY OPINION) The effect of all parts of the universe being inter-connected

Materialists think those (3) are all adequately described as "consciousness" and just struggling to quantify it an explanation that fits them all.


I think evil poses a semi hard problem because there are people we would want to join the debate who start from the believe that not all beings have equal value.
 
#8
IMO Consciousness is only a problem because some people think it's one thing, and others think it's multiple. Here's my take:

Emergent Consciousness - A cognitive reflection of my own experience
Higher Consciousness - The belief that I have a non-physical self that is involved in my life some times and to various degrees.
Universal Consciousness - (MY OPINION) The effect of all parts of the universe being inter-connected

Materialists think those (3) are all adequately described as "consciousness" and just struggling to quantify it an explanation that fits them all.


I think evil poses a semi hard problem because there are people we would want to join the debate who start from the believe that not all beings have equal value.
However the problem is, if several people want to define consciousness and/or evil, they probably won't agree on a definition - even though they basically mean the same thing. That is why I rather went off the idea of defining concepts like this.

Why is evil only semi-hard - I mean is it easier to understand than consciousness itself?

David
 
#9
However the problem is, if several people want to define consciousness and/or evil, they probably won't agree on a definition - even though they basically mean the same thing. That is why I rather went off the idea of defining concepts like this.

Why is evil only semi-hard - I mean is it easier to understand than consciousness itself?

David
Because, (I think):
If's possible to get all involved to agree to start from all beings being of equal value, then evil can be measured by the devaluation(which is a universal experience) which we impose upon eachother.


On top of that, I have the feeling that getting people to agree upon equal value of beings, might be the only way we can get them to agree on what experiences are evil.
 
#10
Because, (I think):
If's possible to get all involved to agree to start from all beings being of equal value, then evil can be measured by the devaluation(which is a universal experience) which we impose upon eachother.


On top of that, I have the feeling that getting people to agree upon equal value of beings, might be the only way we can get them to agree on what experiences are evil.
Yes but most of us eat other beings!

David
 
#11
I loved this discussion. Looking forward to part 2.
First time I heard about you, Alex. Like your open style.
Had heard Jerry's stuff on Conspiracy-R-Us channel plus his own experiences with it. Hard to quantify them, but much has been discussed...
Certain drugs seem to blow open psyches and create vulnerabilities. Probably not an accident. Imbalance, disharmony, dis-ease. Full orchestra with a jilting symphony.
Here's a good old nut from the glory days of Stolen History before it went SPLAA.
B7004E19-B72D-4875-8CC3-8892280095BC.jpeg
 

Alex

Administrator
#12
I loved this discussion. Looking forward to part 2.
First time I heard about you, Alex. Like your open style.
Had heard Jerry's stuff on Conspiracy-R-Us channel plus his own experiences with it. Hard to quantify them, but much has been discussed...
Certain drugs seem to blow open psyches and create vulnerabilities. Probably not an accident. Imbalance, disharmony, dis-ease. Full orchestra with a jilting symphony.
Here's a good old nut from the glory days of Stolen History before it went SPLAA.
View attachment 1953
nice. welcome. thx.
 
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