Jason Jorjani. Does AI = PSI? |589|

[Robbedigital]

I think we give these “gods” or aliens too much credit. Just as we forget and lose something of ourselves and become weaker as we ascend the technology tree, so did they.

This is our “tower of Babel” moment where we freak out about what our creations might become if we don’t put a check on their development somehow and allow them to advance to our level and beyond:
https://www.zerohedge.com/technolog...die-warns-ai-expert-calling-absolute-shutdown

The aliens/gods might operate on a very different timescale than us and free energy might have made them very fragile. Why else would they be worried about us working together such that “nothing would be impossible” for us? Perhaps they are still worried about this and once again trying to pull all the strings to divide us and hold us back. We might serve as a stock planet that breeds fit vessels. If we destroy the balance of nature with free energy then the planet no longer serves its purpose of providing a harsh environment to distill out desired qualities.

This sounds very Hollywood-influenced. The idea that intergalactic travelers would struggle with the same types of scarcity as a civilization who hasn't even accomplished commercial visitation of it's nearest satellite, seems to me inconsiderate.
Current AI (Chat GPT) in just a few months of public access has surpassed Star Trek Character Data's Turing-type ability to present as a human, and again, this is technology of a civilization who is not commercial beyond it's own atmosphere.
This throws Hollywood out the window.
Our only true example of technological advancement is our own. And at this rate, by the time we graduate to a civilization inhabiting multiple planets we will have AI capable of solving problems on a level we can't currently fathom... and we'll still be unable to fathom the problem solving capabilities of interstellar-travel-capable civilizations.

 

[Chester Hunter]

It seems to me there have been a lot of questions that should be directed to Jason Jorjani directly. Why not do that?

 

[Hurmanetar]

This sounds very Hollywood-influenced. The idea that intergalactic travelers would struggle with the same types of scarcity as a civilization who hasn't even accomplished commercial visitation of it's nearest satellite, seems to me inconsiderate.
Current AI (Chat GPT) in just a few months of public access has surpassed Star Trek Character Data's Turing-type ability to present as a human, and again, this is technology of a civilization who is not commercial beyond it's own atmosphere.
This throws Hollywood out the window.
Our only true example of technological advancement is our own. And at this rate, by the time we graduate to a civilization inhabiting multiple planets we will have AI capable of solving problems on a level we can't currently fathom... and we'll still be unable to fathom the problem solving capabilities of interstellar-travel-capable civilizations.

I don't think I'm being influenced by Hollywood... I mean I did watch Star Trek as a kid but...

If there is no scarcity of some sort there is no motivation to act. For an entity to act/perceive in a meaningful non-random way it must have a goal which means the goal is not yet obtained which means the object of the goal is "scarce" on some time scale. If we encounter and interact with entities it is because they lack something that is driving them to engage with the world and cross paths with us. If any being is not lacking it is because they are sitting still meditating somewhere and we don't encounter them because they are sitting still meditating somewhere.

Some confusion might come from the conflation of vertical and horizontal NHIs... Vertical being "the gods" in the next shell of reality above this one and horizontal meaning beings like us from another planet. But the two could become one and the same just as we have the potential to ascend to heaven on our own tower of Babel, so could other NHIs.

A being, any being, could be thought of as a solution to a problem. A problem requires that something is scarce. Without a problem there is no reason for a being to exist and no force shaping it into its present form. When a being solves all the problems that created it, what then? It must either degenerate or reform itself to solve a new set of problems.

 

[Nelson]

It seems to me there have been a lot of questions that should be directed to Jason Jorjani directly. Why not do that?

If Jason would join the discussion here that'd be optimal, so everyone can take part in the interaction

 

[Nelson]

I see the phenomenon of "abduction" and "past life memories" as legitimate experiences,that is fact,I agree. But not in the literal sense of "copulation" or reincarnation.
Some are hoaxed obviously. Some are deliberately misinterpreted for power.
But even those reasonably legitimate have to be understand from the standpoint of metaphor and language. Many people left unprompted and given time to digest, would not necessarily interpret their experiences as past life or abduction. There is a rich tradition of folk dream interpretation which doesn't follow the "official tropes".
Many "abductions" are screen memories and metaphors of sexual abuse.
And the same with past life memories being metaphors for life change or a traumatic event.

I don't think one can fit those possible interpretations into Dr Jim Tucker's research:
https://skeptiko.com/239-dr-jim-tucker-database-of-past-life-memories/

It even includes e.g. birthmark where reportedly the wound causing death was in the previous incarnation. Difficult to fit that into the metaphor category...

 

[Nelson]

When I hear people talking about "will AI become sentient", or does AI=PSI,I shake my head.
I mean all this talk about conciousness being primary and "hierarchical" and suddenly voila, by scientific magic matter and silicon chips turn into living beings!
Conciousness is Independent creative desire.
If conciousness is primary that means its Eternal. Which means it cannot die,nor can it be born/created.
This alone shows that what is NOT concious ( a box of silicon chips!) can never become concious.
Just as conciousness cannot become a bag of rocks.
Can you imagine a calculator or abacus becoming alive after some modern additions!
AI becoming concious is just backdoor materialism.
I can't see how this is not obvious?

The way I see it is that a computer is similar to a brain. So when one is created, it can become "possessed" by a soul.

 

[Nelson]

For all those that believe in an all powerful creator as top in the hierarchy,do they believe that AI will take over god? After all its got Psi and can create quantum computers,robots and time travel technology.
Will AI create Life? Will it terraform the universe and genetically manipulate people into klingons? Will it create orcs from thin air or clay?

Sometimes satire is needed to illustrate the absurdity of the dreams of tech nerds.

But most scientists don't believe in a one creator god. And in general, what you described is in reports of ufos and much of it in mythology too, re distortion of travel, breeding programs, terraforming

 

[Nelson]

If one considers such similarities, including telepathy and shape-shifting, and see that these reports are found throughout time and across the world... It's a strong indicator that the phenomena are real

 

[Zenny]

If one considers such similarities, including telepathy and shape-shifting, and see that these reports are found throughout time and across the world... It's a strong indicator that the phenomena are real

If one uses this logic of.multiple reports across the world over time then religion is true. Noahs,ark,jesus walking on water,moses talking to God,muhammed ascended to the heavens,etc,etc.
Every mystical experience then becomes a proof!
Not a good way to proceed.
As a side note; look at platos Republic. It has an NDE in it,then a whole narrative talked in it about transmigration of souls. I don't doubt NDEs,I doubt platos political narrative interpretation. The self admitted "holy lie" to control the populace.
Why is it folk believe in historical conspiracies ( rightly so!) yet think reincarnation and organised religion because widely reported are true and free from conspiracy disinfo?

 

[Zenny]

I don't think one can fit those possible interpretations into Dr Jim Tucker's research:
https://skeptiko.com/239-dr-jim-tucker-database-of-past-life-memories/

It even includes e.g. birthmark where reportedly the wound causing death was in the previous incarnation. Difficult to fit that into the metaphor category...

When it comes to any experiences used to justify a religious concept this experience needs to be reasonably accessible to people in general,and clear that its not coincidence or stretching the truth.
Most people do not have past life memories of being ANOTHER person.

 

[Zenny]

The way I see it is that a computer is similar to a brain. So when one is created, it can become "possessed" by a soul.

A computer is in no way similar to a brain. A computer is not living!
Why assume the brain is where possession occurs?
That's materialist stuff.
Has anyone seen any evidence after 50 years of computers of one being possessed?
Also,this is once again materialist.
If conciousness is primary why does it need clunky silicon chips as an interface?

 

[Zenny]

But most scientists don't believe in a one creator god. And in general, what you described is in reports of ufos and much of it in mythology too, re distortion of travel, breeding programs, terraforming

Once again,you are equating widely reported with factual reality.
Myth and religion use a lot of poetic licence.
Everything you mention is in the old testament.
Does this mean the whole bible is literally true?

 

[Zenny]

Conciousness being primary mean WE create the material world.
We create the part of the body that is material.
Why would we need somebody else's body to "reincarnate" when we can create our own? Why steal someone else's Art?
And what kind of creative processor goes from a talking adult with all those life experiences to a baby whose forgotten life lessons and mostly doesn't have memories of being cleopatra.
Why don't past live memories talk about previous childhoods or life lessons for the majority?

 

[Nelson]

Zenny, I appreciate your excellent observations and critiques, but I think in some ways it's overly cynical. Throwing the baby out with the bathwater

 

[Zenny]

Zenny, I appreciate your excellent observations and critiques, but I think in some ways it's overly cynical. Throwing the baby out with the bathwater

Likewise your discussion is appreciated.
Maybe you misunderstand part of my stance.
I absolutely believe in Life after death complete with direct Communication.
It's the interpretation of certain phenomenon I think is incorrect.

 

[Nelson]

If one uses this logic of.multiple reports across the world over time then religion is true. Noahs,ark,jesus walking on water,moses talking to God,muhammed ascended to the heavens,etc,etc.

Actually my methodology is to look at the overall patterns, not to get hung up on specifics. E.g. cultures around the world talk of an ancient time when there was a global flood and there was a being/s that helped the humans to survive, in vessels or in tunnels in mountains. To an extent this is supported by geology too, of global cataclysms in Earth's ancient past.

What we are not saying is that any one of these reports is to the letter accurate. But the OVERALL pattern comparing these accounts is what's so striking

 

[Nelson]

As a side note; look at platos Republic. It has an NDE in it,then a whole narrative talked in it about transmigration of souls. I don't doubt NDEs,I doubt platos political narrative interpretation. The self admitted "holy lie" to control the populace.
Why is it folk believe in historical conspiracies ( rightly so!) yet think reincarnation and organised religion because widely reported are true and free from conspiracy disinfo?

I think almost any religion or philosophy conceivable could be used to control a populace. The case has been made by political philosophers for Plato's Republic of course, which is overtly about controling the population. Any religion that asserts a hierarchy of consciousness can be used.

And even if there were a radically egalitarian religion, it too could be co-opted to give the illusion of equality and free choice, but really there's an entrenched political class of demagogues who trick the population that they are so unique and free, even though they are not. As Goethe said, the most enslaved individuals are those who falsely believe they are free

For truth seekers, who still look to follow the evidence (even though there are pitfalls along the way), we'd ask the question regardless of how the answer could be used to create a tyranny:
Is there evidence from NDEs etc. for a hierarchy of consciousness?

 

[Nelson]

Conciousness being primary mean WE create the material world.

That is a question I've been wrestling with for a long time, especially in the last months. I.e. to what extent is Idealism real?
E.g. if I ignore the news and just imagine peace in the world where there currently isn't peace, does there then manifest peace or is one just sticking one's head in the sand?
Or does the answer lie somewhere in between?

 

[Zenny]

That is a question I've been wrestling with for a long time, especially in the last months. I.e. to what extent is Idealism real?
E.g. if I ignore the news and just imagine peace in the world where there currently isn't peace, does there then manifest peace or is one just sticking one's head in the sand?
Or does the answer lie somewhere in between?

Idealism in the sense of Us creating the material world is 100%. But remember there are soo many people co-creating at the same time! The Earth is also a Living being,and so creating as well. ( I'm an Animist!)
And there are many Evil people creating weapons and censorship,so those things can't be erased instantly by "positive thinking". That is new age guff.
But over time the power of Good desire will destroy these evil weapons. This is the story of all religions,codified first by Zorastrianism.
Proof of Us creating matter is the growth of your hair. Or your breath creating small particulates or steam.

 

[Zenny]

I think almost any religion or philosophy conceivable could be used to control a populace. The case has been made by political philosophers for Plato's Republic of course, which is overtly about controling the population. Any religion that asserts a hierarchy of consciousness can be used.

And even if there were a radically egalitarian religion, it too could be co-opted to give the illusion of equality and free choice, but really there's an entrenched political class of demagogues who trick the population that they are so unique and free, even though they are not. As Goethe said, the most enslaved individuals are those who falsely believe they are free

For truth seekers, who still look to follow the evidence (even though there are pitfalls along the way), we'd ask the question regardless of how the answer could be used to create a tyranny:
Is there evidence from NDEs etc. for a hierarchy of consciousness?

From NDEs,those with a life review show a hierarchy of Conciousness in terms of a moral Judge. Which is the same as what Religion calls God.
But a moral Judge does not abduct people or engage in copulation. This is unthinkable!
Nor Is there a hierarchy of different alien races.
Why would God judge on race rather than moral behaviour! That is immoral!