superqualia
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Mark Ireland, Medium Readings Can Help the Grieving |513|
- Thread starter Alex
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Alex
Administrator
I get your point, but I think you've misread my position. I'm totally in favor of gary and mark pushing forward with the soulphone. I I just want them to do it right... I think we all want them to do it right.
I think you're correct to focus on the technology question... trying to reduce after-death communication to technology is a great idea... but you got to do it right.
I think dr. Julie Beischel has already established the kind of protocols we would need to feel confident about this experiement/ technology. I'm a disappointed gary and mark don't seem tuned into the kind of criticism their approach is likely to encounter.
superqualia
New
I get it now. Thanks. Also love Julies' work.
superqualia
New
I agree with what you are saying to some extent. But thats why there is research. How you apply it -- conservatively or liberally, is up to you of course.
atone
Guest
The only way to make these so called research people like Dr. Dean and Julie Beischel more plausible is to have fair skeptics on the
research team , real known ones . It seems now they all hum the same tune, maybe for book sales and revenue? I say this as someone who
believes in life after death PSI, paranormal and the whole "Shabang" I just think its more rare and pops in and out of your life when it wants too.
Not on the whims of some Medium who claims they talk to the dead at a moments notice on your behalf for some bucks or fame. I myself have
had psychic experiences ,dreams that came true , syncs, and ghost experiences , but it was all because of the spirit or whatever it is , not me.
Like I stated before, if I go to three different so called known mediums ,and say Ok you can talk to my deceased mom or dad right? And I'm sure they would say yea, and I say Ok then they should be able to tell you where they were born , hair color, name of our dogs etc …. right? Well, one of two things happen ; they can't or won't take me on ,or I get three different bullshit answers . The late great George Carlin has a great skit about this, but he applies it rightly so to these TV religious preachers and leaders of all faiths. I put a link to it, just replace religious leaders with mediums and it fits like a glove, same thing.
So let me say right here and now, any so called medium on this site or follows it, lets do a reading on myself and post all of what happens. They say they can do it by phone or email so we can do that; I'll even pay for a 30 min session.
George Carlin:
research team , real known ones . It seems now they all hum the same tune, maybe for book sales and revenue? I say this as someone who
believes in life after death PSI, paranormal and the whole "Shabang" I just think its more rare and pops in and out of your life when it wants too.
Not on the whims of some Medium who claims they talk to the dead at a moments notice on your behalf for some bucks or fame. I myself have
had psychic experiences ,dreams that came true , syncs, and ghost experiences , but it was all because of the spirit or whatever it is , not me.
Like I stated before, if I go to three different so called known mediums ,and say Ok you can talk to my deceased mom or dad right? And I'm sure they would say yea, and I say Ok then they should be able to tell you where they were born , hair color, name of our dogs etc …. right? Well, one of two things happen ; they can't or won't take me on ,or I get three different bullshit answers . The late great George Carlin has a great skit about this, but he applies it rightly so to these TV religious preachers and leaders of all faiths. I put a link to it, just replace religious leaders with mediums and it fits like a glove, same thing.
So let me say right here and now, any so called medium on this site or follows it, lets do a reading on myself and post all of what happens. They say they can do it by phone or email so we can do that; I'll even pay for a 30 min session.
George Carlin:
Alex
Administrator
Mark recently posted a really good interview with Dr. Pim van Lommel:
After the interview, Mark followed up with him about the latest sketchy anti-NDE science piece that's making the rounds:
====
Mark Ireland wrote:
Hi Alex, I’m not sure if you read either of these articles (on the same topic) but they seem to be another attempt at a materialist explanation for NDE’s.
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smar...-flashes-before-our-eyes-upon-death-180979647
https://bgr.com/science/the-brain-activity-of-a-dying-person-was-recorded-for-the-first-time-ever
I wanted to get ahead of this with the members of Helping Parents Heal, so I wrote to Pim Van Lommel, asking for his response, as I felt the articles were being “sneaky” with some of their wording and specifics. To my surprise, Dr. Van Lommel provided an extremely thorough response, and wanted to share it with you in case this topic comes up with your listeners.
See his response below—and he also sent three attachments.
Mark Ireland
=============
From: Pim van Lommel
To: 'Mark Ireland'
Sent: Friday, March 4, 2022, 02:36:08 AM PST
Dear Mark,
There have been a lot of questions from all over the world about this article, which had a lot of attention in the popular press.
In this article the brain activity is described in a dying patient with already severe brain damage. The authors describe a short increase in gamma waves at the moment that according to their criteria the patient has a cardiac arrest. They define the cardiac arrest as ‘the abrupt loss of heart function measured by the inability to obtain pulse activity in the EKG’. They write that the patient developed a ventricular tachycardia with apneustic respirations and a clinical cardiorespiratory arrest. However, in figure 2A still electrical activity in the EKG is monitored beyond the moment that in the figure is described that the patient has a cardiac arrest!
According to worldwide accepted cardiological criteria: a cardiac arrest in a patient with an acute myocardial infarction is caused by ventricular fibrillation (VF) or by asystole (a flatline on the EKG). This is called ‘clinical death’, and this period of unconsciousness is reversible if adequate CPR with defibrillation or pacemaker is initiated within 5 – 10 minutes after the onset of cardiac arrest. If not, all patients with cardiac arrest will die due to irreversible damage to the brain. Clinical death is the first stage of the process of dying. A cardiac arrest by VF causes anoxia of the brain, which is a total lack of oxygen (no flow).
However, the patient in this article was shown to have a ventricular tachycardia (not VF or asystole). And the patient developed a very low bloodpressure by this ventricular tachycardia. In this situation there is often no a palpable pulse, in combination with the loss of consciousness, but in the brain there is hypoxia, a lack of oxygen (low flow), and not anoxia as in VF. When no CPR is initiated (electical cardioversion) the ventricular tachycardia will after some time change into VF, and the patient will die.
The authors write that an increase in gamma waves in the EEG is involved in cognitive processes and memory recall in healthy subjects, and that it is intriguing to speculate that such activity could support a last ‘recall’ that may take place in the near-death state.
However, they also write that there are seven important caveats that must be considered before generalizing these findings to understand the typical patterns of brain activity during death.
These caveats are 1) the fact that the described patient had a posttraumatic brain that suffered from hemorrhage, swelling and seizures, 2) anesthesia-induced loss of consciousness can alter neuronal oscillations, 3) dissociative events and drugs can cause an increase in gamma activity, 4) the patient had been placed on significant doses of anticonvulsant medication, which could directly affect the neuronal network activity, 5) asphyxia and hypercapnia can enhance cortical connectivity, and in this patient hypercapnia and resulting acidosis may have stimulated gap-junction activity, that is critical for gamma oscillations, 6) in this patient no normal activity was recorded in the EEG that can serve as a true baseline for comparison, 7) stereotyped neuronal activity patterns are conserved during daily behavioral tasks, but systematic research about brain activity during the process of dying has never been done. See my detailed comments and quotes in the attachment.
The authors write: We do not anticipate death in healthy subjects (NB. Van Lommel : like in patients in acute cardiac arrest during myocardial infarction) and therefore could not obtain uninterrupted recordings in the near-death phase in anything other than from circumstances involving pathological conditions in acute care hospital settings.
It is well established what happens in the EEG in a patient with an acute cardiac arrest, and who was healthy until that moment. The EEG changes after about 8 seconds after the onset of cardiac arrest, and becomes a flatline EEG after 18 seconds. See the attachment with some paragraphs from my latest article ‘The continuity of Consciousness’.
Summarizing: What the ‘general press’ writes about the content and conclusions of the already frequently quoted article is incomplete and mostly wrong, and seems to be used to find a materialist explanation for the cause of an NDE.
There have been some very critical comments about the interpretation of the EEG registrations in this article as well.
A commentary will follow in the JNDS.
Kind regards,
Pim van Lommel
After the interview, Mark followed up with him about the latest sketchy anti-NDE science piece that's making the rounds:
====
Mark Ireland wrote:
Hi Alex, I’m not sure if you read either of these articles (on the same topic) but they seem to be another attempt at a materialist explanation for NDE’s.
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smar...-flashes-before-our-eyes-upon-death-180979647
https://bgr.com/science/the-brain-activity-of-a-dying-person-was-recorded-for-the-first-time-ever
I wanted to get ahead of this with the members of Helping Parents Heal, so I wrote to Pim Van Lommel, asking for his response, as I felt the articles were being “sneaky” with some of their wording and specifics. To my surprise, Dr. Van Lommel provided an extremely thorough response, and wanted to share it with you in case this topic comes up with your listeners.
See his response below—and he also sent three attachments.
Mark Ireland
=============
From: Pim van Lommel
To: 'Mark Ireland'
Sent: Friday, March 4, 2022, 02:36:08 AM PST
Dear Mark,
There have been a lot of questions from all over the world about this article, which had a lot of attention in the popular press.
In this article the brain activity is described in a dying patient with already severe brain damage. The authors describe a short increase in gamma waves at the moment that according to their criteria the patient has a cardiac arrest. They define the cardiac arrest as ‘the abrupt loss of heart function measured by the inability to obtain pulse activity in the EKG’. They write that the patient developed a ventricular tachycardia with apneustic respirations and a clinical cardiorespiratory arrest. However, in figure 2A still electrical activity in the EKG is monitored beyond the moment that in the figure is described that the patient has a cardiac arrest!
According to worldwide accepted cardiological criteria: a cardiac arrest in a patient with an acute myocardial infarction is caused by ventricular fibrillation (VF) or by asystole (a flatline on the EKG). This is called ‘clinical death’, and this period of unconsciousness is reversible if adequate CPR with defibrillation or pacemaker is initiated within 5 – 10 minutes after the onset of cardiac arrest. If not, all patients with cardiac arrest will die due to irreversible damage to the brain. Clinical death is the first stage of the process of dying. A cardiac arrest by VF causes anoxia of the brain, which is a total lack of oxygen (no flow).
However, the patient in this article was shown to have a ventricular tachycardia (not VF or asystole). And the patient developed a very low bloodpressure by this ventricular tachycardia. In this situation there is often no a palpable pulse, in combination with the loss of consciousness, but in the brain there is hypoxia, a lack of oxygen (low flow), and not anoxia as in VF. When no CPR is initiated (electical cardioversion) the ventricular tachycardia will after some time change into VF, and the patient will die.
The authors write that an increase in gamma waves in the EEG is involved in cognitive processes and memory recall in healthy subjects, and that it is intriguing to speculate that such activity could support a last ‘recall’ that may take place in the near-death state.
However, they also write that there are seven important caveats that must be considered before generalizing these findings to understand the typical patterns of brain activity during death.
These caveats are 1) the fact that the described patient had a posttraumatic brain that suffered from hemorrhage, swelling and seizures, 2) anesthesia-induced loss of consciousness can alter neuronal oscillations, 3) dissociative events and drugs can cause an increase in gamma activity, 4) the patient had been placed on significant doses of anticonvulsant medication, which could directly affect the neuronal network activity, 5) asphyxia and hypercapnia can enhance cortical connectivity, and in this patient hypercapnia and resulting acidosis may have stimulated gap-junction activity, that is critical for gamma oscillations, 6) in this patient no normal activity was recorded in the EEG that can serve as a true baseline for comparison, 7) stereotyped neuronal activity patterns are conserved during daily behavioral tasks, but systematic research about brain activity during the process of dying has never been done. See my detailed comments and quotes in the attachment.
The authors write: We do not anticipate death in healthy subjects (NB. Van Lommel : like in patients in acute cardiac arrest during myocardial infarction) and therefore could not obtain uninterrupted recordings in the near-death phase in anything other than from circumstances involving pathological conditions in acute care hospital settings.
It is well established what happens in the EEG in a patient with an acute cardiac arrest, and who was healthy until that moment. The EEG changes after about 8 seconds after the onset of cardiac arrest, and becomes a flatline EEG after 18 seconds. See the attachment with some paragraphs from my latest article ‘The continuity of Consciousness’.
Summarizing: What the ‘general press’ writes about the content and conclusions of the already frequently quoted article is incomplete and mostly wrong, and seems to be used to find a materialist explanation for the cause of an NDE.
There have been some very critical comments about the interpretation of the EEG registrations in this article as well.
A commentary will follow in the JNDS.
Kind regards,
Pim van Lommel
Last edited:
Robbedigital
New
Fascinating letter and docs. Will have to listen to the interview later. That said.. after having read the above..
I picture a car with Bluetooth, with a dead battery. The driver has a phone which can sync with the car. The driver has to jump start the car, but once started it can go wherever the full tank of gas will take it, and the Phone and Car can sync up for radio/phone calls/music, etc.
As soon as the car stops and turns off it's no longer synced with the the phone(akin to cardiac arrest) due to dead battery. While the car is off the driver may go and download a many new songs to the phone. Time had stopped for the car, and when the driver returns and jump starts the car he can play songs that we’re downloaded while the car was dead. For the car no time passed.
With all the NDE reports and interviews, and few docs I've heard/read, I don’t think the human body is downloading or processing the NDE experiences while dead. I think the body downloads/syncs the experiences from the higher self upon reviving. As I've mentioned before I'm sold on portrayal User Chester Hunter made referring to the bran as a transceiver.
I picture a car with Bluetooth, with a dead battery. The driver has a phone which can sync with the car. The driver has to jump start the car, but once started it can go wherever the full tank of gas will take it, and the Phone and Car can sync up for radio/phone calls/music, etc.
As soon as the car stops and turns off it's no longer synced with the the phone(akin to cardiac arrest) due to dead battery. While the car is off the driver may go and download a many new songs to the phone. Time had stopped for the car, and when the driver returns and jump starts the car he can play songs that we’re downloaded while the car was dead. For the car no time passed.
With all the NDE reports and interviews, and few docs I've heard/read, I don’t think the human body is downloading or processing the NDE experiences while dead. I think the body downloads/syncs the experiences from the higher self upon reviving. As I've mentioned before I'm sold on portrayal User Chester Hunter made referring to the bran as a transceiver.